Xbox 360 - Us & Uk Price *now Confirmed*

[linkster]

(Sony's online 'service' was an afterthought that requires extra peripherals... and yet still has more users than Live; There have been no attempts at a closed system for online gaming on the PC since about 1995, what with the internet existing.)

Here's the thing: If I want to play a game online on the PC or PS2 (or soon, the PS3, the DS, etc.), I don't have to fork out a seperate subscription to the hardware manufacturer. More importantly, if I want to develop an online game for those platforms I don't have to force my customers to pay an extra fee to get at my game. The choice MS gives developers is use Xbox Live or don't have online features in your game. As soon as the PS3 hits the market they won't be able to hold developers (and through them, consumers) to ransom any more.

That's my beef with Live, that it's an entirely un-necessary tax on online gaming, the result of trying to put machines on a network while keeping the system as tightly locked down (in revenue terms) as a traditional offline console. Glib comments to the effect of "but it's the best closed system there is!" are missing the point entirely.

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You ignore an important point, which is that although the cost is passed onto the consumer through subscription to pay for the servers, that extra cost is something the publisher doesn't have to shoulder, therefore making it more likely for a game to feature onliine play. Perverse logic in a way, but one that is more likely to produce more online games. And as far as concepts go, MS are actually brilliant at dealing with concept submissions for games. I certainly wouldn't hold them responsible for any lack of variety in the types of games on live.

The *only* reason so many PS2 games have featured online play is that lately Sony insisted on parity with Microsoft and won't approve anything for release

that has less features than the Xbox equivalent, hence FlatOut not seeing a US release until very recently.

[dan_tm]

This is the case for nearly every PS2 online game aswell (not just EA's); does no-one ever read the small print?

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I don't play PS2 online. Apparently it's difficult to set up, difficult to use and mostly pointless. Plus I don't have a PS2 anymore...

[mackemansj1]

Yep i like the setup of live alot, its a closed system so you know other people will be using the same hardwar/control device as you. Its a piece of piss to set up its all easy to navagate, it has a friends list it has messages you can link it to msn and for the most part its stable. I have tried ps2 with its arse on to setup different accounts for games and wide no whole spread cheating on games like socom etc and its chalk and cheese. Im willing to pay for live to keep it a closed system so it keeps up and improves the current standard. And there is always cheap live kits in shops, i have never paid more than £20 for a year of online gameing bargin.

[Plissken]

I don't play PS2 online. Apparently it's difficult to set up, difficult to use and mostly pointless. Plus I don't have a PS2 anymore...

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Difficult to set up?

IME, plug in, type address of router, ten seconds later it comes back and goes "Hello, you are connected, what do you want to play?".

[Yewone]

I'm a bit late to this debate but this bit in particular caught my eye.

As to why I care, search me. I suppose I thought it set a bad precedent, but as it looks like no-one else is planning to copy Microsoft's policies, I don't suppose it matters that much.

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You're so right.. because lets face it, Nintendo's future Online policy of charging people to download backcatalogue games that they probably already own is much better.

If LIVE wasnt subscription based or "closed" it would be an absolute disaster, and open to even more abuse than it already is.

[nevsan]

Speaking of the Live I'm looking forward to seeing how the new version works. Over at Gametrailers they have quite a long movie displaying how the new dash works. The text is in German (I think) but it gives a cool demo of what to expect from the 360.

[Yewone]

Speaking of the Live I'm looking forward to seeing how the new version works. Over at Gametrailers they have quite a long movie displaying how the new dash works. The text is in German (I think) but it gives a cool demo of what to expect from the 360.

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YEAH the new dash looks sexy as hell. I really like the idea of the improved player profiles. Being able to get detailed stats and achievemets about everyone on your friends list will be great.

Also looking forward to see what they have planned in terms of webcam support over Live.

[MK-1601]

You ignore an important point, which is that although the cost is passed onto the consumer through subscription to pay for the servers, that extra cost is something the publisher doesn't have to shoulder, therefore making it more likely for a game to feature onliine play.

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Hasn't stopped most PC games supporting online play. It's a bit 'cart before horse' to assume that every online console game must only run off official servers in perpetuity. (Especially if you consider loads of Live games don't use the servers anyway...)

I'm a bit late to this debate but this bit in particular caught my eye.

You're so right..  because lets face it, Nintendo's future Online policy of charging people to download backcatalogue games that they probably already own is much better. 

Err, how is that even comparable? Nintendo's policy for actually playing their games online is to have no subs fee, on both the DS and the Rev.

If LIVE wasnt subscription based or "closed" it would be an absolute disaster, and open to even more abuse than it already is.

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This argument (seeing as it's Microsoft's) fails to take into account that it's in the interest of any publisher providing an online game to prevent abuse. Anyway, I've already said I'm not asking that Live be changed, just that it's not the only option available.

[Liquid Myth]

God, stop it already. Live is officially great and approved by most of the RLLMUK forum.

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"Officially" great?

Does that make it exempt from critique?

[Smitty]

You guys are fudging nuts. Are MS supposed to be exempt from making profits or something?

£210 for a new console is frankly stunning.

[Kryptonian]

"Officially" great?

Does that make it exempt from critique?

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Not critique no, but from horseshit, yes.