Developer Complains About 360 Dvd

[Gwynster]

I assume they're talking about raw MPEG streams, which are rather massive at HD resolutions. However this is the Xbox 360, which is more than capable of handling something like DivX decoding at a high resolution.

And besides, anyone whining about not being able to fit in 'cutscenes' warrants no sympathy, from me no anyone else.

[footle]

How long is this 2GB intro? What kind of half-assed encoding scheme are they using?

[Uncle Mike]

I thought the scenes in DMC3 were in-engine?

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Some of them may be (although I don't recall any/many) but the bulk of them are FMV, I'm pretty sure. I don't reckon all that camera-down-the-sleeve or shooting-the-pool-balls-into-their-faces stuff is in-engine.

[Mogget]

Anyone here remember the rendered intro sequence in Far Cry ? Now that is a classic example of pointless fluff and wasted DVD space.

[HappyCat]

Quite true.. however.. does Joe Public buy:

1. The 360 version on it's 9GB DVD with low res cut scenes.

or

2. The PS3 version on Blu-ray with HD cut scenes.

Given the rest of the content will be pretty much identical I think people will opt for the better version.. the one that gives them more..

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Or will Joe Public, who has a standard def TV and will have for a good few years yet, not give a rats ass?

[squirtle]

Anyone here remember the rendered intro sequence in Far Cry ? Now that is a classic example of pointless fluff and wasted DVD space.

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I really liked that intro. Cracking it was. And as it came on one DVD, was hardly a waste was it?

[Smoothy]

I would wager that the decision to include DVD seems sensible at this point, but maybe in about 5 years towards the end of the console's lifetime, it may come back to haunt them. Fair enough they will probably introduce an HD-DVD add-on later on, but add-ons are never popular at the best of times (remember the SEGA-CD?) so it might be in their best interests to include HD-DVD from the start (and delay the console as end of 2005 is far too early for a console launch in any case).

[Eighthours]

(and delay the console as end of 2005 is far too early for a console launch in any case).

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*points to PGR3*

Au contraire.

[Smoothy]

*points to PGR3*

Au contraire.

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Yeah but they could wait a bit and upgrade the specs of the console, in order to make sure that it's here for the long haul. It won't be good if the console's lifespan drops off early just cos certain aspects of it is underpowered.

[Mogget]

I really liked that intro. Cracking it was. And as it came on one DVD, was hardly a waste was it?

It was crap. It made very little sense, and was a pointless waste of time and resources. Using the game's own graphics engine would have resulted in a better looking (and probably more coherent) intro sequence.

[Andy_Tanner]

i see no reason for continued use of FMV with the graphics that the next gen consoles can produce, then again the Final Fantasy games really rely on it, but surely the worst that can happen is that those games will come on multiple discs ?

also Dead or Alive is a fighting game, just how much FMV does it need ?

[Gwynster]

The only compelling reason for them is to cover up load times - if there's 2Gb of the stuff though, clearly someone's not got enough actual game to sell.

[Andy_Tanner]

The only compelling reason for them is to cover up load times

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surely it can't play pre-rendered FMV footage from the disc and load at the same time ?

[Sng]

Slightly off-topic but could a Blu-Ray drive (which has two lasers in?) use both at the same time?

[Lex]

What chance multidisk games then?

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This makes modern consoles uncomfortable; if a machine can be opened without resetting it's a jump forward for piracy.

[Gwynster]

surely it can't play pre-rendered FMV footage from the disc and load at the same time  ?

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AFAIK the PS1 did this quite a lot. I may be wrong though.

Of course, if I'm wrong, then cutscene developers haven't a leg to stand on.

[tiedtiger]

i see no reason for continued use of FMV with the graphics that the next gen consoles can produce,

Seen them have you?

[Aardvark]

surely it can't play pre-rendered FMV footage from the disc and load at the same time  ?

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Just interleave the data you need to load with the FMV you need to play (assuming you can pull data off the disc considerably faster than you need for just the FMV).

[Andy_Tanner]

Seen them have you?

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i've seen then this gen, my estimate is that they'll improve

[womblingfree]

I know nothing about games programming so excuse me if I'm wrong.

Just because games don't necessarily need the huge amount of storage capacity right now doesn't mean that there won't be a need for it in the future does it?

When games started shipping on DVD people said the same things, games don't need all that space.

Would we be able to have a game like GTA3 streaming all that data without DVD?

Surely some developers will put the new technology to good use somehow?

The fact that Microsoft chose not to use a next gen storage medium seems to be a real own goal on their part.

[tiedtiger]

i've seen then this gen, my estimate is that they'll improve 

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So that'd be a no then

[tiedtiger]

I know nothing about games programming so excuse me if I'm wrong.

Just because games don't necessarily need the huge amount of storage capacity right now doesn't mean that there won't be a need for it in the future does it?

It's possible but the general consensus would be that if you're using up 9 gigs of space then you're just being inefficient. In otherwords, this developer is just being a bit if a whinger.

There's nothing to stop them writing their magnum opus across two disks if it's that epic though. I suspect not though, and suspect that it's just because they don't want the hassle of having to think a bit and maybe consider a bit of data compression or other cleverness. In otherwords, this developer is just being a bit if a whinger.

[womblingfree]

Aside from games it sure would be nice to watch a high definition Lord of the Rings without having to change disks half way through.

Whatever the gaming issues surely the movie market will be a driving force over the course of these consoles life span.

[Ed-E]

Maybe they'll realise pre-rendered sequences are, by and large, complete wastes of time and stop using them.

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Except until possibly this-gen-coming they have been necessary, and not only due to the fidelity of the graphics possible. Cutscenes that involve complex effects and that rapidly switch between different scenes and characters are very difficult to achieve on this-gen equipment due to lack of memory.

[MK-1601]

It's possible but the general consensus would be that if you're using up 9 gigs of space then you're just being inefficient. In otherwords, this developer is just being a bit if a whinger.

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GTA:SA is just under 5gb, and that 1. looks extremely ropey by this gen's standards (for the most part) and 2. doesn't even fritter away hundreds of megs on FMV. So I guess all that capacity is going to be used sooner or later.

I doubt that Tecmo are going to be short of space for a while yet though, unless they need to store 10,000 times more breast physics data than this gen, or something.

[tiedtiger]

GTA:SA is just under 5gb, and that 1. looks extremely ropey by this gen's standards (for the most part) and 2. doesn't even fritter away hundreds of megs on FMV. So I guess all that capacity is going to be used sooner or later.

Yes, but it's also got a hell of a lot of music and so on in there and a play area that is far too big. More of a case of 'How much can we squeeze in' than 'We're running out of room'.

I doubt that Tecmo are going to be short of space for a while yet though, unless they need to store 10,000 times more breast physics data than this gen, or something.

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[Spunky Monkey]

2gigs, thats just a waste of space. They'll easily be able to compress it down. Take Resident Evil 2 on the N64, normally comes on two CDs, that came on one 512mb cart, think thats 128 MB. So it is possible to compress things. Besides how many games use more than a gig anyways? Crazy taxi and virtua tennis use up a couple of hundred and most games use between 1-2 gigs at the most, including cut scenes.

[Andy_Tanner]

So that'd be a no then

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that'd be sniping then

[MrPogo]

Reguardless of the game implications, the lack of a "next gen" DVD format for movies (even if nothing's going to come out in it for ages) is pushing me towards a PS3 over a 360.

[Spunky Monkey]

Reguardless of the game implications, the lack of a "next gen" DVD format for movies (even if nothing's going to come out in it for ages) is pushing me towards a PS3 over a 360.

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And how many HD movies have been released so far? Not many im betting, i dont think it'll be worth it just for HD movies, you'd be much better waiting where by the end of the life spans of the xbox360 and ps3 HD movies will be becoming big business.