Arsenal

[Daley]

I really don't understand. Theo; fine, he pulled during the game on Sat, but G and Kos? They were fine weren't they? So surely just training?

Kos got a knock on Saturday. Was limping quite badly by the end.

Ah here we go.

Koscielny has an ankle injury, Gervinho has a 'mild' muscular problem... both have a chance to be fit for the game at the shit hole

[The Fox]

Let's not forget that the precedent for giving stupid contracts to average players was started by David Dein, the apparent saviour-in-waiting.

[wev]

Whs is Denilson and Diaby's agent?

[Daley]

It's a shame it is not Darren Dein. He can't get players out the club quick enough. What is it now? Henry, Cesc and Clichy he has off-loaded? He's like a one way ticket out of north London.

He is RvP's agent.

[Lucas]

Why the fuck didn't Wenger check the future before Arsenal's entirely separate team of contract negotiators offered contracts. Why didn't he forsee that of the two 24 year old French midfielders who, despite abundant potential, had only shown flashes of brilliance between injury layoffs that only one would have a good six months last season while the other would continue to struggle with his injury.

I hope grave robbers rape his dead mouth.

Has it not been fairly widely reported that he controls the "playing" budget?

[carlito]

No.

Nasri was offered a new contract before the final year of his contract. He didn't accept it - most likely as a result of a greedy little bird on his shoulder whispering 200k a week blue nothings.

Wenger will have said, "What is the maximum we can offer him? Ok, offer him that" - and obviously it wasn't enough. I think he is busy enough with his training duties without having to comb through the financials to decide what we can and can't afford as a financial entity. He is given a budget by the money boys and he deals with it.

I remember when everyone couldn't believe Song had been offered a new contract. Disgraceful it was.

[wev]

It's a shame it is not Darren Dein. He can't get players out the club quick enough. What is it now? Henry, Cesc and Clichy he has off-loaded? He's like a one way ticket out of north London.

He is RvP's agent.

Nasri's agent too isn't he?

Also, sick of my account/browser double posting!

[Lucas]

No.

Nasri was offered a new contract before the final year of his contract. He didn't accept it - most likely as a result of a greedy little bird on his shoulder whispering 200k a week blue nothings.

Wenger will have said, "What is the maximum we can offer him? Ok, offer him that" - and obviously it wasn't enough. I think he is busy enough with his training duties without having to comb through the financials to decide what we can and can't afford as a financial entity. He is given a budget by the money boys and he deals with it.

I remember when everyone couldn't believe Song had been offered a new contract. Disgraceful it was.

Ok. Then who decides that Denilson/Diaby/Traore/whoever should get whatever they get? Are you really suggesting that Wenger has no input?

[Daley]

Nasri's agent too isn't he?

Also, sick of my account/browser double posting!

No Nasri's agent was a far more despicable human being.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ben_lyttleton/08/19/jean-pierre.bernes.frances.most.powerful.agent/index.html

Samir Nasri won't be the only one raising a toast once his proposed lucrative transfer to Manchester City is completed in the next few days. The five-year deal is reportedly worth $288,320 per week, and one of the key figures behind the move has been his agent, Jean-Pierre Bernes, who can justifiably call himself France's most powerful agent, even if he prefers the term "advisor."

If you think you recognize the name, it's because you probably do. Bernes was the right-hand man to Marseille president Bernard Tapie during France's biggest football scandal. The pair were found guilty of attempting to fix a Ligue 1 match against Valenciennes in May 1993, in the week before Marseille beat AC Milan in the Champions League final.

At trial, and in a subsequent interview with France Football magazine, Bernes admitted that Marseille had spent "more than [$829,800] on corruption money." Bernes served a brief spell in jail and, like Tapie, was banned from French football for two years. UEFA banned Marseille from defending its Champions League crown, while the French league stripped the club of its title and relegated it to the second division.

At the time, Marseille's biggest domestic challenge came from Monaco, then managed by Arsene Wenger. The current Arsenal boss has gone on record as saying that Tapie's methods prevented Monaco from winning at least two more French titles during that period. It is no coincidence, either, that the Valenciennes coach back in 1993 was Boro Primorac, who has worked as Wenger's assistant ever since. The two men, who were sitting together in the stands as Wenger served a touchline ban at last week's European tie against Udinese, were vocal critics of Tapie and Bernes at the time. Primorac even testified in court against them.

It's an open secret in France that Bernes has enjoyed seeing Wenger squirm through this tough period at Arsenal: One week after his captain, Cesc Fabregas, moved to Barcelona, Wenger now has to deal with the departure of his potential successor.

[carlito]

Ok. Then who decides that Denilson/Diaby/Traore/whoever should get whatever they get? Are you really suggesting that Wenger has no input?

Like I said in the post you replied to. Wenger will say whether he wants to keep a player and the bods will tell him how much we can pay. He won't won't decide financials, it's insane to think he would - although I am certain he has enough swing to get a bit of leeway in special cases as he did with Fabregas' and Henry's last contracts.

[Dude Ranch]

This is all a bit different to 'entirely separate team of contract negotiators offered contracts'. The point was that we've got crap like Diaby on a shitload of money and there's no way I'm not holding Wenger accountable for that. Diaby didn't sign for £60k per week while Wenger shook his head and secretly thought he was only worth a quarter of that.

[Oh Danny Boy]

No Nasri's agent was a far more despicable human being.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ben_lyttleton/08/19/jean-pierre.bernes.frances.most.powerful.agent/index.html

football agents are arsehols shocker

[Lucas]

^ what he said, better than I managed to all day.

It's all a load of speculation anyway. None of us have the first idea how it's all sorted out.

EDIT: what dude ranch said, not that belm.

[Daley]

football agents are arsehols shocker

Can't argue with you there but most generally tend to avoid going to prison.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Can't argue with you there but most generally tend to avoid going to prison.

best place for them mate

[carlito]

This is all a bit different to 'entirely separate team of contract negotiators offered contracts'. The point was that we've got crap like Diaby on a shitload of money and there's no way I'm not holding Wenger accountable for that. Diaby didn't sign for £60k per week while Wenger shook his head and secretly thought he was only worth a quarter of that.

No, Wenger definitely said "I want to keep Diaby" because, although injuries have held him back, the scope for his improvement as a player over the course of his contract was huge.

If he had reached anything like his potential 60 grand would have been chump change for his services given the going rate for other Champion's league players. The extra few grand a week was the cost of a gamble that hasn't yet gone our way.

[Dude Ranch]

No, Wenger definitely said "I want to keep Diaby" because, although injuries have held him back, the scope for his improvement as a player over the course of his contract was huge.

He's a slab of meat in a football shirt, if he had a brain he'd be dangerous. £60k per week based on some weird idea of him suddenly becoming an effective weekly footballer and with his injury record is ludicrous and Wenger will have endorsed that kind of wage. Don't change the subject. And £60k would not have been chump change at all, incredible suggestion.

[toythatkills]

Is there any chance at all that the Emirates Stadium was constructed on top of an ancient Indian burial ground by mistake?

[carlito]

He's a slab of meat in a football shirt, if he had a brain he'd be dangerous. £60k per week based on some weird idea of him suddenly becoming an effective weekly footballer and with his injury record is ludicrous and Wenger will have endorsed that kind of wage. Don't change the subject. And £60k would not have been chump change at all, incredible suggestion.

I am not quite sure what subject you think I changed it to, I was firmly on why Wenger would have been willing to offer Diaby a decent contract.

He had injures yes. Shall we not offer Vermaelen a good contract for the same reasons, should we have sacked off RVP for his - a lot of people were on favour of that.

You obviously don't see why people think Diaby has potential to be such a fantastic footballer. Odd considering some of the games he's played for us, but fine. To me, his natural ability is so apparent that it feels mindless having explain it.

£60k a week would be a pittance for the player Diaby could be. A pittance...

[Dude Ranch]

I am not quite sure what subject you think I changed it to, I was firmly on why Wenger would have been willing to offer Diaby a decent contract.

You started off absolving Wenger from any blame regarding the size of wages paid to the likes of Diaby by suggesting there was some kind of secret agency of contract negotiators. Now you're explaining why Wenger, actually, will have decided on the size of the contract. Two errors of judgement from Wenger IMO. Rewarding mediocrity, inconsistency and a little promise with a massive contract and also believing Diaby could make the grade and put in a performance more than once every six months. Now we're stuck with him. Vermaelen and RvP, as you well know, are in no way the same as Diaby. They are both proven footballers. Diaby is a proven liability. And I say that with a nagging feeling that he's been a bit let down and desperately needs some actual coaching and tactical awareness drilled into him. Yes, he might have some natural ability but to pay him £60k per week is astonishing. I actually find it insulting.

[carlito]

Just for the fun of it, I thought I would peruse a few pages from a year or so again, around the time people say that clown Wenger should have tied Nasri down on a big bucks mega deal contract, to see what people were saying:

Campbell was good. Clichy had a decent game until the last goal which he deserves to be crucified for. Walcott made a couple of good chances for himself and took one.

Bendtner was rubbish. He creates nothing for anyone around him - one good pass for the Walcott goal and the rest was rubbish. Rosicky crap. Nasri mostly rubbish. Silvestre looked lazy. Eastmond looked lazy and way out of his depth - how he can even be considered a possible defensive midfielder is obscene. Diaby has one good trick that always works (when he switches it between his feet to beat a man) but otherwise actually contributed nothing.

Fabianski was beyond words and looked incompetent. He's not a goalkeeper.

This team is nothing without Fabregas and Van Persie. We've been saying it for years now but this squad is full of players who would be bit-part in any other title-hopeful squad. We can talk about clear outs all we want, but it's not just about getting rid of players. We need 3 or 4 more world class players, and that's just not going to happen.

Bottom line: we haven't won anything in five years, and we won't for another five.

So, with Theo seemingly not up to it at all, Arshavin picking his games and never really giving 100%, Rosicky and Nasri only having OK seasons in spells despite coming back from injuries would you stick with them or go with Wilshere as a tiny bit of a wild card but who's shown spirit, bollocks and class at Bolton recently?

I think I'd bring him back and stick him in. I think he's ready and he'll end up getting pissed off otherwise, I want him to be in love with the Club. I don't want him to be the next Bentley or Anelka. I always saw Wilshere as the Fabregas replacement, in that forward/midfield role Wenger has built our formation around. There's no reason they can't play together though. I think Wilshere can turn the games we've fallen short in this season.

In fairness I'd much prefer to see Wilshere playing for us next season that chipping away at Bolton. I'd hardly class Nasri as undroppable either.

Anyway, I'd contend that our inability to shoot hasn't been a consistent problem for 5 years as when Adebayor was actually playing well we were always capable of getting some scruffy, offside, deflected penalty that went in off his head which could break down teams when plan A went awry. Sort that out and we're laughing.

I like Nasri, but am worried that two seasons in he doesn't look like the £12m (IIRC) signing. At that price you do need player to come in and be effective.

I think people tend to compare him unfairly to Fabregas, when Fabregas is more a passer and Nasri more a dribbler.

Out of context? Maybe, but it does help refresh the memory as to how people felt.

I have also seen Samir Nasri play for Arsenal, and if you asked me who had shown the most "spirit, bollocks and class" in the team over the difficult period we have endured, Fabregas heroics aside, I wouldn't think twice about saying him.

Samir Nasri is already a player of the very highest calibre and he is 22. He has filled the roles of Cesc Fabregas and even van Persie when called apon to do so. Samir Nasri has scored big goals and made big contributions in games where we have needed it - at the highest levels of competition.

Oh STOP IT you guys. You're embarassing me!

[mop]

Like most times, I'm with carlito on this. That is all.

[Dude Ranch]

Haha.

'So, with Theo seemingly not up to it at all, Arshavin picking his games and never really giving 100%, Rosicky and Nasri only having OK seasons in spells despite coming back from injuries would you stick with them or go with Wilshere as a tiny bit of a wild card but who's shown spirit, bollocks and class at Bolton recently?

I think I'd bring him back and stick him in.'

This is the post I made that you answered with something like 'some dummy says replace Nasri with Wilshere lol' despite me clearly not singling out Nasri at all, rather running through our creative midfield options at a time when Nasri looked like the obvious Cesc replacement. Remind me, how did that work out? How does 'I want him to be in love with the Club' sound now, what with Nasri fucking off presto pronto and Wilshere looking every part our future captain?

Also note I didn't bother mentioning Diaby .

[carlito]

It's not about you sweetheart, it's about the general feeling.

[Art Vandelay]

Letting Nasri's contract run down was unavoidable. He wanted more money than we were willing to offer and that was that. Getting him to sign a new deal should have been about protecting our investment and it's regrettable that you seem to resign yourself to losing players to Man City if you can't pay them a million quid a month.

I think the complaint is that whilst everyone would be happy if we blew the back doors off to tie a proven player to the club, it's the vulgar amounts of money we pay unproven footballers who seem utterly indifferent about being here in the first place. People like Nasri for instance. He showed "spirit, bollocks and class" whilst manufacturing a move then couldn't give a shiny shite when that was all sorted. I think I was more annoyed about the principle of losing someone like him rather than the reality of missing him from the playing staff.

[mop]

I think that while we might disagree about who is at fault for the wage structure at the club, we can all agree that it's a bit borked? It'd be nice if we could sort that out.

There's just far too much for us to moan about right now, really.

[Dude Ranch]

It's not about you sweetheart, it's about the general feeling.

Glad it's not about me, no Sir. Only the quote of mine you pulled out of nowhere to try and prove some point or other. The feeling was that he looked OK mostly, very good in spells, but hardly amazing week in week out. That's the truth. And this spirit, bollocks and class you mentioned. Oh dear . Art has summed that up nicely.

[Lucas]

Dont see anything there about nasri that I don't still stand by.

[Lucas]

Also, I think my original point was that there is something wrong at the club if player like RvP are only being paid marginally more than some lesser talents.

[The Fox]

Anyone else enjoying how useless Nasri looks at the moment?