Arsenal

[Oh Danny Boy]

i hope they dont get rid of wenger i hope they give him some cash and time im not a fan of arsenal btw the mighty wolves are my team

but im always entertained when i watch them more than can be said for some teams

True, from a neutral perspective Arsenal were very entertaining today, just not in the way Arsenl fans would have liked

[Jonathan_Kerr]

I didn't see much of the first half but I saw on the replay two arsenal players yelling at each other. What was that about?

Ah. Turns out it was Walcott having a go at Jenks.

[phresh]

Im not sure it was as bad as people are making out, minus the comedy defending for the first goal at least 4 (both of Young's and Rooney's free kicks) wouldn't have gone in on another day and 4-2 wouldn't be as bad as the CL Semi a couple of years ago.

I've said it in here more than once but he really needs to slack of pat rice and change things up, he's got the chance now that Fabregas has left and if he was willing to concede control of at least some aspects of the play (i.e. defending) then I don't see too much trouble ahead. When you watch him you do start to get the feeling that maybe he just isn't in it anymore, it's like when you've painted an entire wall and it doesn't look as good as the tester but you stick with it because you're too stubborn to change it.

[Art Vandelay]

It's not just one result though, this abject form has been going on since March. I've stuck up for Wenger for years, but as much as I think there could be something going on upstairs at the club the fact remains that we're in an awful slump that no-one has the first clue on how to get us out of. He absolutely has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility.

If we accept that he's had no money to work with and work on that basis, he's still perfectly happy that with one slight injury to Sagna we have a kid who just doesn't have a clue at this level playing for you. He's a hard worker and might muddle through so I'm not blaming him at all, but our manager saw him, sold our other right back and now he's playing against Utd. He's a first team player so presumably we'll be seeing lots more of him. This isn't Wenger being denied cash, this is what he wanted to do. A decision that's blown up in his face in record quick time.

Again, we sold Clichy, who was a vastly experienced player and then just didn't replace him. When pressed about it we're apparently happy to go into the season with Gibbs and Traore - a perenial crock and a bloke I've never seen give less of a shit about football. Again, ultimately Wenger's decision.

The midfield yesterday had two first teamers and a kid who came in and played well. He's really the only guy out there who isn't expected to fulfill a role in the first team squad this season. And we lost by 6 clear goals. The result is significant when viewed as a culmination of six months of rot. I'll blame the board on Wednesday afternoon when we've predictably bought in no-one, but at the moment it's only Wenger to blame with what's going on on the pitch, and I never thought I'd say that.

[humdrum]

Was the last man, took out the attacker, was on a yellow. Not harsh at all.

fuck off mate, it wasn't even a foul. they both went for the ball jenkinson was stronger. just like welbeck was stronger against Djourour for uniteds first(and that wasn't a foul in my book either. so explain the difference?).

football is a contact sport, not all contact is a foul.

[SMD]

It's not just one result though, this abject form has been going on since March. I've stuck up for Wenger for years, but as much as I think there could be something going on upstairs at the club the fact remains that we're in an awful slump that no-one has the first clue on how to get us out of. He absolutely has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility.

If we accept that he's had no money to work with and work on that basis, he's still perfectly happy that with one slight injury to Sagna we have a kid who just doesn't have a clue at this level playing for you. He's a hard worker and might muddle through so I'm not blaming him at all, but our manager saw him, sold our other right back and now he's playing against Utd. He's a first team player so presumably we'll be seeing lots more of him. This isn't Wenger being denied cash, this is what he wanted to do. A decision that's blown up in his face in record quick time.

Again, we sold Clichy, who was a vastly experienced player and then just didn't replace him. When pressed about it we're apparently happy to go into the season with Gibbs and Traore - a perenial crock and a bloke I've never seen give less of a shit about football. Again, ultimately Wenger's decision.

The midfield yesterday had two first teamers and a kid who came in and played well. He's really the only guy out there who isn't expected to fulfill a role in the first team squad this season. And we lost by 6 clear goals. The result is significant when viewed as a culmination of six months of rot. I'll blame the board on Wednesday afternoon when we've predictably bought in no-one, but at the moment it's only Wenger to blame with what's going on on the pitch, and I never thought I'd say that.

What if Wenger is told to reduce the wage bill to bring in players and not to let anyone leave on a free any more?

[toythatkills]

Wanna hear something so ridiculous you have to laugh?

Van Persie got one bonus point on FPL for his performance yesterday

[Art Vandelay]

What if Wenger is told to reduce the wage bill to bring in players and not to let anyone leave on a free any more?

I think he probably understands that would have to be the case and knew how things would have to turn out with regards to Clichy and Nasri. Nasri is a special scenario as that involved a ludicrous amount of money, but people like Clichy and Eboue were likely to leave anyway as they were pretty stale and getting what money you can from them is sensible.

The gamble to replace Eboue with Jenkinson hasn't exactly paid off and rolling the dice hoping that Gibbs would stay fit lasted all of two hours. They're errors in judgement, it's that simple. Everyone else that has left or are likely to leave are players that were universally agreed are rubbish and Wenger clearly doesn't want them. The only player who I suspect he was reluctant to leave would be Nasri, and as I say, even he wouldn't be as idealistic as to suggest we turn down £25m for him.

[a big boy]

Im not sure it was as bad as people are making out, minus the comedy defending for the first goal at least 4 (both of Young's and Rooney's free kicks) wouldn't have gone in on another day and 4-2 wouldn't be as bad as the CL Semi a couple of years ago.

I've said it in here more than once but he really needs to slack of pat rice and change things up, he's got the chance now that Fabregas has left and if he was willing to concede control of at least some aspects of the play (i.e. defending) then I don't see too much trouble ahead. When you watch him you do start to get the feeling that maybe he just isn't in it anymore, it's like when you've painted an entire wall and it doesn't look as good as the tester but you stick with it because you're too stubborn to change it.

Arsene Wenger rightfully enjoys a privileged status among Arsenal and football fans in general, second only to Ferguson. He's a true legend of the game for what he's done for Arsenal and the Premier League as a whole. But I do find it strange when people talk about the solution to the club's current problems as if what's needed is for him to stay on and cross our fingers that he ends up admitting he's basically wrong about some of the fundamental tenets of his philosophy. He's not going to wake up one day in his 60s and decide what this team needs to win trophies is a huge spending spree to buy a bruising centre back, a scumbag in midfield, and a captain who keeps his defence in line by barking at them. He's never going to do any of that, and he's certainly not going to concede control of the defence or any other part of the pitch because it's just simply not who he is.

Like I say he's a true legend who's made Arsenal one of the game's great institutions, so understandable there's a lot of sentiment around this issue. But ultimately his position is just like any other manager at any other club. If you feel like he's no longer taking you anywhere you don't cross your fingers and hope he one day finally starts getting round to addressing the fundamental weakness that have plagued the side for the last five seasons under his reign. You replace him with someone else who will.

[SMD]

I think he probably understands that would have to be the case and knew how things would have to turn out with regards to Clichy and Nasri. Nasri is a special scenario as that involved a ludicrous amount of money, but people like Clichy and Eboue were likely to leave anyway as they were pretty stale and getting what money you can from them is sensible.

The gamble to replace Eboue with Jenkinson hasn't exactly paid off and rolling the dice hoping that Gibbs would stay fit lasted all of two hours. They're errors in judgement, it's that simple. Everyone else that has left or are likely to leave are players that were universally agreed are rubbish and Wenger clearly doesn't want them. The only player who I suspect he was reluctant to leave would be Nasri, and as I say, even he wouldn't be as idealistic as to suggest we turn down £25m for him.

You're forgetting Fabregas as well though. He has enough money for 4 expensive embryos but hasn't signed them. Why?

[toythatkills]

Wenger should be put in charge of the youth team. He's obsessed with finding players for the future but he seems to have no idea how to handle them in the present, so he just starts looking for players for the next future instead. He'd be an awesome youth team coach, then we can find someone else to manage the first team that can deal with all the players that Wenger's discovered and run the first team like a first team.

[toythatkills]

Twitter: Traore is having a medical at QPR.

[carlito]

The gamble to replace Eboue with Jenkinson hasn't exactly paid off and rolling the dice hoping that Gibbs would stay fit lasted all of two hours. They're errors in judgement, it's that simple.

I think Jenkinson is an improvement on Eboue as a second choice rightback. I think he's been really impressive.

Eboue was a useful squad player to come on just because of his pace but defensively he was capable of terrible, terrible things - the Liverpool 96th minute pen last season being just one example.

I also am pretty sure we are going to get a left back. We wouldn't be getting rid of Traore ifs someone wasn't coming in - that said Chelsea won titles playing Gallas out of position at leftback so who knows.

I do still find it hard to bear that Liverpool landed Enrique who just would have been so perfect for us.

[Dude Ranch]

I've been impressed by Jenkinson too. He was playing for Eastbourne a year ago, now he's played at Old Trafford and in the CL and not embarrassed himself. He should not have been in such a weak side yesterday. I know it was unfortunate with all the injuries but he was let down a bit and getting on his case is ridiculous. He showed more spirit than a lot of them out there and didn't hide.

You wanna hurt him? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. He's an easy target. Yeah, you're right, he fouls too much. He also tries too much. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you... but I don't like to hurt people's feelings. Well, you think what you want about him; he's not changing. I like... I like him. My wife likes him. My friends like him. 'Cause he's the real article. What you see is what you get.

[Throbin Hood]

The Arsenal score was great yesterday. 2, a Premiership record for Arsenal at Old Trafford. It was the MU score that was the problem

The Liverpool comparison is one I have been hearing more and more of and the only hope is that as there aren't quotes in the papers from various board members every day that the situation is salvageable.

[hercules]

we surely have to sign a left back then, but who? Unless wenger feels signing a centre half will be fine so that TV can shift to left back but that would truely suck. Jenkinson has done alright i feel but he has been thrown in the deep end which isn't really fair on the boy. I do believe he will make the step up, look at smalling he was playing in the lower leagues before fulham snapped him up and he continued to improve at Man utd.

[Rev]

I've been impressed by Jenkinson too. He was playing for Eastbourne a year ago, now he's played at Old Trafford and in the CL and not embarrassed himself. He should not have been in such a weak side yesterday. I know it was unfortunate with all the injuries but he was let down a bit and getting on his case is ridiculous. He showed more spirit than a lot of them out there and didn't hide.

You wanna hurt him? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. He's an easy target. Yeah, you're right, he fouls too much. He also tries too much. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you... but I don't like to hurt people's feelings. Well, you think what you want about him; he's not changing. I like... I like him. My wife likes him. My friends like him. 'Cause he's the real article. What you see is what you get.

It wasn't his fault he got sent off, it was Djourou stepping forward at the time he should having been hurtling backwards.

And it's Wenger/Rice to be blamed too. It should have been made totally clear that we don't want any red cards - that clearly wasn't done as Arshavin should have been off as well. It's one thing Arsenal needing to become stronger, but you don't do that by getting someone sent off every match. As much as the eight goals are embarrassing the three red cards in three matches is worse if anything.

But he's doing at least as well as Eboue did and he's younger and doesn't waltz off to Africa at a crucial part of the season. A Good Signing in my book.

[Lucas]

The thing with both smalling and Evans is that they have gone to a team when defending is rightly considered to be a pretty important part of the game. As much as I think jenkinson has it, is wenger the best manager to get it out of him?

[Rev]

The thing with both smalling and Evans is that they have gone to a team when defending is rightly considered to be a pretty important part of the game. As much as I think jenkinson has it, is wenger the best manager to get it out of him?

We're looking better at corners this season, to be fair.

In other Arsenal news, at least things like this appear relatively consistently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/28/arsenal-win-womens-super-league

Which is nice.

[The Fox]

Good to see some people still ragging on Jenkinson. Are we really saying he's any worse than Eboue? Come on. He has bags of potential and even now is not largely worse than latter day Eboue.

If we're going to criticise individuals, why not Arshavin, who was awful yet again and seemed to be trying deliberately to get sent off, and Djourou, who is just getting worse and worse? These are guys who should be holding it together for the raw newbies, but they, and other senior players, were utterly abject.

[Rev]

Good to see some people still ragging on Jenkinson. Are we really saying he's any worse than Eboue? Come on. He has bags of potential and even now is not largely worse than latter day Eboue.

If we're going to criticise individuals, why not Arshavin, who was awful yet again and seemed to be trying deliberately to get sent off, and Djourou, who is just getting worse and worse? These are guys who should be holding it together for the raw newbies, but they, and other senior players, were utterly abject.

Arshavin is one of the worst players in the world at the moment. That he managed to find a new low over the weekend was genuinely impressive.

Djourou was terrible, but he was really good on Wednesday. Whether it was tiredness or being stood next to Koscielny that ruined him I can't really say, but I suspect it was a combination of the two. (Have I ever mentioned I don't like Koscielny?)

[Lucas]

Yeah, djourou is a shadow of the player he was last season. Very disappointing.

[Art Vandelay]

I'm not saying Jenkinson is shit or anything, far from it as I said he's been decent so far, as recently as Wednesday in fact. I'm simply using him to illustrate the point that we've bought someone in to fulfill a role within the first team squad who simply isn't ready. I wouldn't dream of portioning blame out to the guy, especially not after yesterday. I think if you'd have offered him a revolver as he was trudging off he'd have turned it on himself. Frankly we could do with a few more people with his character.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

Before the game, I predicted 7-0 with two Arsenal players sent off.

Pretty close, and ultimately one of those days where when it starts, it's not going to stop and you just have to take it. Us (United) against Barcelona felt like that after they went 2-1 up, we knew it was over.

Throughout the game your defence was shocking, three defenders going for Welbeck who all let the ball bounce for the comedy goal of the day. Jenkinson, whilst some of you are singing his praises, he's been nothing but shocking so far, could've been sent off against Young, even moreso against Hernandez who was about clear through. Arshavin (who I used to like) I'm happy you all agree on, a player with obvious quality but hasn't shown it in a long long time. He deserved a yellow for that first challenge, some would've sent the little shit right off, then anything but a straight red for the next leg-breaker is just insulting.

It's clear what you need, a big big spending spree - I understand why it hasn't happened (getting the most he could for Nasri, as if he signs a central midfielder it seems as if he knows he's going and so City might not offer so much), but it sure as heck should've been in progress with deals in place. Raiding Everton isn't such a bad idea, Baines, Jagielka and Arteta would do you well and I don't think Everton are in much of a place to decline. For them, it'd be a case of having the players to replace them in their own ranks that wouldn't leave them weak enough to go down. Cahill, sure, he's a solid defender but if Vermaelen is out any longer then another tough centre-back is essential, as well as getting someone in at left-back. Clichy was never going to turn down the money (and so neither were Arsenal), but finding an appropriate replacement quickstyle is imperative.

Central-midfielders are essential, as is another winger (because without Walcott, you're severely lacking) and a striker - take Carrick from us and get in Hazard for starters. I just hope you don't leave it until January to sort it out.

[The Fox]

(Have I ever mentioned I don't like Koscielny?)

You've mentioned it once or twice. I don't really know why because I think more often than not he's really good and should only get better, but each to their own.

Also gonna contest that Djourou was "really good" on Wednesday. Vermaelen was fantastic, sure, but Djourou had several hairy moments and was at fault for Udinese's goal. JD hasn't been the same since he dislocated his shoulder at OT last season. Ever since then his form has been poor, whether he's been playing with Verm or Kos.

[mop]

Arsenal to cover future away ticket for Old Trafford fans

[hauk]

I've said it in here more than once but he really needs to slack of pat rice and change things up

I think Wenger try and get in Stojkovic as he second in command over the summer, only for him to stay in the J-league. I'm pretty sure Pat Rice left only to come back.

The worse thing about right now is the whole point of the new stadium was to make us able to compete with the biggest clubs in the world in terms of signings and what do we get after getting mauled 8-2? Park coming in to replace Bendtner, at a profit! What was the point of the new Stadium if all we do is stick with the same model as 15 years ago of signing unknowns and turning them into stars? I wish we would make a couple of big name signings before Wednesday, something along the lines of Kaka or Hazard, but let's face it it's never gonna happen.

[Baz]

..take Carrick from us..

[Rev]

You've mentioned it once or twice. I don't really know why because I think more often than not he's really good and should only get better, but each to their own.

Also gonna contest that Djourou was "really good" on Wednesday. Vermaelen was fantastic, sure, but Djourou had several hairy moments and was at fault for Udinese's goal. JD hasn't been the same since he dislocated his shoulder at OT last season. Ever since then his form has been poor, whether he's been playing with Verm or Kos.

He frequently makes very good tackles, but that's all. There's no presence, or consideration, or anything. I can't think of a many Premiership defenders I wouldn't rather have on the pitch than him. He reminds me of Demichelis (or Almunia) - you watch him waiting for him to do something suicidal rather than just forgetting he's there and watching the rest of the game.

And yeah, maybe Djourou wasn't "really" good but he certainly wasn't the embarrassment he was against Man Utd. It was just like Jones had a few very dodgy moments yesterday for them, but you wouldn't complain about the performance.

[Rocafella]

So Traore is off to QPR. He won't be missed, but we're another full back down.