Arsenal

[The Grand Pursuivant]

[Steve007]

Just to clarify, if we get knocked out tonight, do we go into the UEFA Pub Cup competition or are we out of Europe altogether?

[The Fox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZovQocCC0c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[humdrum]

We go into the europa league

[wev]

Re-watching that Cup Winners Cup Final performance, a Wenger team could never pull that off! Hell, Graham's Arsenal were lucky to pull that off!

[toythatkills]

Rllmuk exclusive! Updated bingo card with some suggestions from the last page, some moaning about Arsenal having no leaders, and some blank spaces for your own! And an apostrophe, even though looking at the UEFA website I was right the first time. Oh well, doesn't matter.

I can't even watch ITV1, someone'll have to cross these off and let me know how I did

EDIT: D'oh, now the rules don't add up. Oh well, that doesn't matter either.

[Steve007]

Re-watching that Cup Winners Cup Final performance, a Wenger team could never pull that off! Hell, Graham's Arsenal were lucky to pull that off!

The '94 win was all about getting stuck in and each player giving that extra 20%. On paper we had no chance, especially with Wrighty banned.

I really miss the old school Cup Winners Cup & UEFA Cup competitions The modern Champions League has devalued everything else to the point of making them irrelevant (or non-existent in the Cup Winners Cup's case!).

The '95 final was a real heart breaker, but the 2000 UEFA Cup Final against Galatasaray was typical of a Wenger team - they choked & bottled it when it mattered.

[CandyBob]

Remember at times like this it could be worse, we could be Spurs fans.

Seriously I think that what's happened this summer is something we need to get used to. I don't actually think that spending £50-60mil now is going to make much difference to our chances of winning a trophy. The FA Cup and League Cup maybe but Man City effectively have two very good sides they could play on alternate weeks and get a positive result, ManU seem to have perfected the balance of young/old, money/development that we seem to be struggling with and Chelsea are spending again. As for the CL, forget it. I honestly don't think it is now worth us going mad.

What we should have done though as an absolute minimum is to make sure that we qualified this season (which I think we still will) and to invest to make sure that we are 4th next season. They don't even seem to be doing that at the moment though which is worrying.

Every team has goals and expectations at the start of a new season and ours are now lower than what they were during Arsene's early period in charge. We just have to tighten our belts and accept that there are now 3 teams that we cannot compete with.

The club have to take some blame but effectively the money in the PL now means that trophies are effectively dead for the 17 other clubs unless you get very lucky.

[redbloodcell]

You can watch ITV1 online if you really want to. Something usually goes wrong with it mind...

edit: Sorry I'd forgotten I have that avatar

[Guest]

What have I become?

My sweetest friend.

Everyone I know

Goes away in the end.

You could have it all,

My empire of dirt,

I will let you down,

I will make you hurt.

[Dude Ranch]

Remember at times like this it could be worse, we could be Spurs fans.

Right this moment would you put money on us finishing above them?

We just have to tighten our belts and accept that there are now 3 teams that we cannot compete with.

We seemed to be in a strongish position though and suddenly it's gone to utter shit. We might not be able to compete financially but we were holding our own and the utter lack of ambition and willingness to strengthen the squad has put us back.. I was gonna say six years but fuck knows where we stand right now. I know things can change and there are some bright spots but I'm less happy as an Arsenal fan today than probably any time in forty years. I can easily take not winning, I've lived through that. But to be on the slide like this is unbearable.

The best we can hope for is that we sign big names this coming week but even if we do we're starting again. Again.

[Charliemouse]

Remember at times like this it could be worse, we could be Spurs fans.

Seriously I think that what's happened this summer is something we need to get used to. I don't actually think that spending £50-60mil now is going to make much difference to our chances of winning a trophy. The FA Cup and League Cup maybe but Man City effectively have two very good sides they could play on alternate weeks and get a positive result, ManU seem to have perfected the balance of young/old, money/development that we seem to be struggling with and Chelsea are spending again. As for the CL, forget it. I honestly don't think it is now worth us going mad.

What we should have done though as an absolute minimum is to make sure that we qualified this season (which I think we still will) and to invest to make sure that we are 4th next season. They don't even seem to be doing that at the moment though which is worrying.

Every team has goals and expectations at the start of a new season and ours are now lower than what they were during Arsene's early period in charge. We just have to tighten our belts and accept that there are now 3 teams that we cannot compete with.

The club have to take some blame but effectively the money in the PL now means that trophies are effectively dead for the 17 other clubs unless you get very lucky.

To be honest we are pretty much in the same boat now, 2 historically big clubs that just cant compete anymore due to money and the fact we are not owned by Oil rich Arabs or Russians.

I dont think players care anymore about who they play for as long as they getting paid stupid money. Just look at Eto he is now playing for a team that a few years ago was a tiny 3rd division club.

[CandyBob]

Right this moment would you put money on us finishing above them?

We seemed to be in a strongish position though and suddenly it's gone to utter shit. We might not be able to compete financially but we were holding our own and the utter lack of ambition and willingness to strengthen the squad has put us back.. I was gonna say six years but fuck knows where we stand right now. I know things can change and there are some bright spots but I'm less happy as an Arsenal fan today than probably any time in forty years. I can easily take not winning, I've lived through that. But to be on the slide like this is unbearable.

The best we can hope for is that we sign big names this coming week but even if we do we're starting again. Again.

Nothing would be as bad as being a Spurs fan, no matter where we finish.

I don't think we were really holding our own though. We've remained in the top 4 but rarely threatened the Champions. I understand how you feel about what appears to be an apparent slide, but I think that what's happening is that Man City have come along and the club realises it can't get anywhere near them (or ManU and Chelsea) and so is taking stock again for the future. It is frustrating as we appeared to have been building towards something for the last 6 years but the money has killed that dead.

Can you imagine our position now if Abramovich and the Man City lot had not come along? It's just bad luck timing really.

[Space Renegade Ulala]

The '94 win was all about getting stuck in and each player giving that extra 20%. On paper we had no chance, especially with Wrighty banned.

I really miss the old school Cup Winners Cup & UEFA Cup competitions The modern Champions League has devalued everything else to the point of making them irrelevant (or non-existent in the Cup Winners Cup's case!).

The '95 final was a real heart breaker, but the 2000 UEFA Cup Final against Galatasaray was typical of a Wenger team - they choked & bottled it when it mattered.

Yeah, the '94 win was incredible, really didn't think we would do it at all but it was so, so sweet when we did. Ah, those were the days, the days of steel at the back.

Anyway, I agree, I loved the old cup formats and things just haven't been the same since it all became Champions' League Champions' League Champions' League at the expense of everything else. Hell, ask most clubs these days if they'd rather win the FA Cup or qualify for the CL in 4th and far too many would say the latter. In Arsenal's case, you have to wonder if those in charge are fine with the club pootling along failing to win a goddamn thing because as long as they finish 4th, that's all they care about.

That being the case, there's a part of me that wouldn't mind if we bombed out of right now, had a terrible, crushing failure of a season that ended in mid-table or something if there's a chance it will wake the useless, complacent fuckers up and actually do something positive to make the club a challenging force again.

Sorry, I know, I know, gettin' mad about football, etc. It's just such a fucking shambles, though...

[Dude Ranch]

I don't think we were really holding our own though. We've remained in the top 4 but rarely threatened the Champions.

With a bit of luck on the injury front we could have won it last year. When Eduardo broke his leg we were in pole position. We were there, we had an established team with youngsters like Wilshere coming through, new stadium and a massive gate income. We only needed to do a few good deals here and there.

[Mallet]

I dont think players care anymore about who they play for as long as they getting paid stupid money. Just look at Eto he is now playing for a team that a few years ago was a tiny 3rd division club.

Just to expand on that thought, look at all the out of favour players at man City who are happy not to be playing or even in the squad as long as they don't have to take a wage cut. Personally I've been getting more and more disillusioned with professional football these last few years.

Arsenal's situation baffles me though and some of it seems to be self inflicted as well.

[CandyBob]

With a bit of luck on the injury front we could have won it last year. When Eduardo broke his leg we were in pole position. We were there, we had an established team with youngsters like Wilshere coming through, new stadium and a massive gate income. We only needed to do a few good deals here and there.

There isn't such a thing as an established team now though for a club in our position. Even had we won one of those PL titles it would not have stopped Fab or Nasri going. Not in my opinion anyway. I honestly don't think we could have won it last year. Regardless of injuries our form and confidence had gone. '08 was a great chance though agreed.

Unless there is a massive shift in football and teams are forced to properly live within their means, we can expect the same of Wilshere, Ramsey, Ryo etc in a few years.

Don't get me wrong though. I've been a big supporter of what the club is doing but this summer has been a complete farce. Buying Cahill + a Mata/Hazard type character would have greatly increased our chances of qualifying tonight and being in the mix at the end of this season. It does begger belief really what they have done so far. I'm going to cut them some slight slack and suggest that maybe, just maybe there are 2 or 3 players waiting to see if we qualify tonight first.

[The Fox]

Right this moment would you put money on us finishing above them?

Sure. They looked complete dump against United, certainly worse than we were in our first two league games. With Wilshere back in the side and even just a couple of good additions, we're better than them. Especially if they lose that little prick Modric.

We seemed to be in a strongish position though and suddenly it's gone to utter shit. We might not be able to compete financially but we were holding our own and the utter lack of ambition and willingness to strengthen the squad has put us back.. I was gonna say six years but fuck knows where we stand right now. I know things can change and there are some bright spots but I'm less happy as an Arsenal fan today than probably any time in forty years. I can easily take not winning, I've lived through that. But to be on the slide like this is unbearable.

The best we can hope for is that we sign big names this coming week but even if we do we're starting again. Again.

I think saying we've been put back six years is a bit melodramatic at this point. Let's wait until September the 1st before we make judgements like that, eh?

I mean we're shipping out a lot of the dross players that we all described as dead wood, and replacing them with hungry youngsters who have a real affinity for the club and who don't cost the earth. That's good, right?

We've got a cracking price for 'Mr One Assist' Nasri and have already got Gervinho in that wide forward position for what seems like an equally good deal. That's kinda good too, right?

Ok we lost Cesc, and we can't replace him like-for-like, but we can build a team that's less reliant on that sort of player. If the players we've brought in so far - coupled with the M'Vila rumours - are anything to go by, it seems like Wenger wants to bring a bit of power, pace and directness back to the squad. And that's also good, right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say everything is rosy. The summer has been pretty fucking horrible, and having left things so late is a really monumental fuck up. Ok so it took Barca and City ages to actually put acceptable offers on the table, and that's not our fault, I get that. But I'm pretty sure we're not so skint that we literally couldn't get replacements without the downpayments on those two. So yeah, the club has made some huge fuckups, and it's been depressing. But it could still be ok. It's not over yet, man. If we win tonight, we have 7 days to get in some top quality reinforcements. Three or four players in, good players, in the right positions, and we're laughing. Yes it should have been done earlier. Yes a lot of damage has been done that needn't have happened. But even if we lose tonight, things aren't over for us until that window closes at the end of the month.

But we won't lose tonight. We won't. COME ON ARSENAL.

[Rev]

I've heard if Arsenal lose tonight Spurs are going to appeal that they own the Emirates stadium really.

[Jonathan_Kerr]

I mean we're shipping out a lot of the dross players that we all described as dead wood, and replacing them with hungry youngsters who have a real affinity for the club and who don't cost the earth. That's good, right?

I think this is the most important thing about this season, aside from qualifying for CL. We have new dudes who want to be there and we have gotten rid of, and are continuing to get rid of, the players that drained our wages and offered very little in return.

While it is galling to see the rise of City, they have all the pressure on them. They haven't spent half a billion dollars to win the FA Cup. If they don't win the Premier League or the Champion's League, their season is an abject failure. I'm not familiar with the nature of the owners, but how long will their patience last, and, are the clubs at risk if the owners want to sell? (genuine question, I don't know much about club ownerships).

[Rev]

I think this is the most important thing about this season, aside from qualifying for CL. We have new dudes who want to be there and we have gotten rid of, and are continuing to get rid of, the players that drained our wages and offered very little in return.

While it is galling to see the rise of City, they have all the pressure on them. They haven't spent half a billion dollars to win the FA Cup. If they don't win the Premier League or the Champion's League, their season is an abject failure. I'm not familiar with the nature of the owners, but how long will their patience last, and, are the clubs at risk if the owners want to sell? (genuine question, I don't know much about club ownerships).

The trouble with multi-billionaires is that spending £500m on a project and not getting much from it is like me buying an iPad and not using it that much. Mildly annoying, and in retrospect you probably wouldn't bother, but it's not exactly the end of the world.

[Dude Ranch]

Not sour grapes, honest, but..

That is a face you could slap forever, right?

[toythatkills]

There are rumours on twitter (lol) that if Arsenal don't qualify tonight they'll get into the CL anyway as Fenerbahce have been kicked out. Or Liverpool will get in. Or something. I don't really know what's going on.

Does anyone know what's going on?

[Sirloin]

There was talk of them being kicked out due to match fixing.

[toythatkills]

There was talk of them being kicked out due to match fixing.

Aye, that's happened. Or the Turkish FA withdrew them, but either way they're out and there's a place going begging and rumours are that Arsenal or Liverpool will get it.

If Arsenal win, Liverpool don't get it. If Arsenal lose, it could go either way depending on how UEFA decide to allocate the place. There isn't much that makes sense about it that I can find at the moment!

[Sirloin]

Aye, that's happened. Or the Turkish FA withdrew them, but either way they're out and there's a place going begging and rumours are that Arsenal or Liverpool will get it.

If Arsenal win, Liverpool don't get it. If Arsenal lose, it could go either way depending on how UEFA decide to allocate the place. There isn't much that makes sense about it that I can find at the moment!

Can't see why either of them would get it really, with neither of them being Turkish. And I can't see why they would pick one specific loser from the playoff to reward over the others. Not that I think Arsenal will go out tonight.

EDIT: Apparently it might go to the team with the next highest co-efficient who haven't qualified. So that might be whats driving the Arsenal/Liverpool talk.

[toythatkills]

Can't see why either of them would get it really, with neither of them being Turkish. And I can't see why they would pick one specific loser from the playoff to reward over the others. Not that I think Arsenal will go out tonight.

Because of UEFA co-efficients or something. Whatever that is. Arsenal are the highest ranked team in Europe that aren't qualified for the CL (if we go out) so we may get the place. The next highest Turkish team are also implicated in match-fixing.

Statement at 7:30 anyway.

[Dude Ranch]

If Arsenal lose, it could go either way depending on how UEFA decide to allocate the place.

We're ranked fifth and Liverpool ninth, I think, not that that's particularly how they'll judge it but giving it to the higher ranking team would sound logical. Doesn't sound too likely but imagine if we lost tonight and the Spuds have a party! And in the morning we're back in it!

Statement at 7.30. If they say then we're in it regardless then what of our match tonight? Do they put Udinese in?

[exwhyzed]

They should arrange a match between the highest ranked teams that do not go through the play offs. Just do a one off at a neutral ground or something.

[toythatkills]

Statement at 7.30. If they say then we're in it regardless then what of our match tonight? Do they put Udinese in?

I guess it depends where Udi are ranked compared with the other teams that go out in qualifying. Who knows.

It's odd that they'd announce it before the match if it's going to directly affect it though, so it's probably all rubbish.

How amazing would it be to get knocked out of the CL and then go on to win it, though