Arsenal

[wev]

It's obvious we're not going to achieve much this season, we'll be lucky to grab fourth if we continue with this squad, and I'm not holding my breath for any decent signings as pretty much every club out there has us literally bent over with our arses in the air. Just going to enjoy the days we do alright and find other distractions (Xenoblade Chronicles for example) for days like today.

[Art Vandelay]

It's astonishingly bleak at the moment. So bleak that it's almost surreal. I just cannot make sense of the whole situation. We've gutted the squad and are putting out reserve teams for what are incredibly important matches. We've sold our captain. We've got some bloke playing who is leaving in a few days. The average age of the team is about 21 when we were promised this wouldn't be the case. We still haven't actually spent a penny on new players and our fans are expected to cough up for the most expensive tickets on the planet. Then to top it all off, some of our most experienced players turn up and play like an absolute bunch of cunts. All the more infuriating when the guy next to you is some 19 year old kid and is working his garbage off. Utterly shameful.

Those who stepped up today can take a lot of pride and shouldn't be expected to walk off and get booed.

There must be something going on behind the scenes surely? The money can't be just going into a big pit somewhere? Either something has gone totally tits up with the finances or someone is lining up a big payday for themselves. I refuse to believe anyone could be as stubborn as Wenger is being at the moment out of choice.

[Silent Runner]

It's going to be a long, long season.

[SMD]

There must be something going on behind the scenes surely? The money can't be just going into a big pit somewhere? Either something has gone totally tits up with the finances or someone is lining up a big payday for themselves. I refuse to believe anyone could be as stubborn as Wenger is being at the moment out of choice.

This. The signs are pointing to there being no money and as a Liverpool fan I can tell you that when the board say there's money to spend, it means nothing. We were lucky that Rafa blew the whistle on our owners, if the same is happening to you then why is Wenger silent?

[Dude Ranch]

Shit is ducked but I don't want to be hearing shit about a player being too good for us. Fuck that noise. We believe that and we shouldn't be surprised no one has signed for us.

What would you do in Nasri's position mate? Stick it out? Hope and pray?

Right now I'm not surprised he wants to leave. We're fans, he's looking at his career. He's no Arsenal fan, he hasn't got blind faith. I don't like him but I understand.

Fuck that noise? Get real, it's not 1975.

[Dude Ranch]

This. The signs are pointing to there being no money and as a Liverpool fan I can tell you that when the board say there's money to spend, it means nothing. We were lucky that Rafa blew the whistle on our owners, if the same is happening to you then why is Wenger silent?

That's all fair enough and well said. I can't believe we haven't got any money to spend, we can't have put ourselves in this position for X number of years, pushing a decade maybe. With the whopping match revenue and the funds generated from recent transfers we can't be utterly skint, we can't. If we are though, it's bonkers. Something will have to have gone badly wrong before, during or after the stadium move. I posted on this a few days ago. I'm more than happy to stand corrected by the way. Sky put up figures before the game showing we're third bottom of the Prem spending league this year with a £12m profit. Given our recent accumulation of transfer fees if we're skint then the lot of them need sacking.

Or, to put it another way. If we can't spend the £30-£40m that Arsene mentioned this week (pre Nasri sale), if we haven't had this war chest for five years, how can you trust the Club? People are spending possibly 5-10% of their yearly wage on going to see Arsenal and they're being reassured year after year that funds are there. Don't panic, we've got money to spend if we see the need! We've seen the money coming in on top of what we supposedly already have. If we're being lied to about that then how does that look? We're not talking short term, this has been happening for years. Where does keeping your cards close to your chest end and spouting rubbish start?

[SMD]

That's all fair enough and well said. I can't believe we haven't got any money to spend, we can't have put ourselves in this position for X number of years, pushing a decade maybe. With the whopping match revenue and the funds generated from recent transfers we can't be utterly skint, we can't. If we are though, it's bonkers. Something will have to have gone badly wrong before, during or after the stadium move. I posted on this a few days ago. I'm more than happy to stand corrected by the way. Sky put up figures before the game showing we're third bottom of the Prem spending league this year with a £12m profit. Given our recent accumulation of transfer fees if we're skint then the lot of them need sacking.

I wouldn't take Sky's numbers as gospel but anyone can see you've made a profit and haven't added any players who plug gaps in your squad. You used to spend more on players 10 years ago than you do now and that's not even adjusting for inflation.

[Dude Ranch]

I wouldn't take Sky's numbers as gospel but anyone can see you've made a profit and haven't added any players who plug gaps in your squad. You used to spend more on players 10 years ago than you do now and that's not even adjusting for inflation.

Yes, true again. And I wouldn't take Sky's figures as fact either but it's the truth, give or take. We sell and don't buy, not on the same scale anyway. I refuse to believe we're stuck for money. We're tight as it is, we can't have overshot ourselves. I don't know, apart from the admirable faith from good honest Arsenal fans no-one has yet to convince me of anything.

As I've said, we might buy big when we qualify for the CL. We might get in cheap stop gaps if we don't. Yeah, what about today though? Something is up.

[mop]

What would you do in Nasri's position mate? Stick it out? Hope and pray?

Right now I'm not surprised he wants to leave. We're fans, he's looking at his career. He's no Arsenal fan, he hasn't got blind faith. I don't like him but I understand.

Fuck that noise? Get real, it's not 1975.

What would I do in his position? It's obvious I can't answer that objectively but I appreciate the point you're making. If Nasri wants to leave because he feels he's too good for the club - that's fair enough. My point, which I think you missed, is that as fans the idea of a player being too good for us goes past understandable pessimism or cynicism and into the realms of bullshit self-loathing. Fuck that noise.

Also, I'm at a loss to what the 'get real, it's not 1975' refers to.

[Dude Ranch]

What would I do in his position? It's obvious I can't answer that objectively but I appreciate the point you're making. If Nasri wants to leave because he feels he's too good for the club - that's fair enough. My point, which I think you missed, is that as fans the idea of a player being too good for us goes past understandable pessimism or cynicism and into the realms of bullshit self-loathing. FUCK THAT NOISE.

What about Cesc? Was he too good? Did he deserve his move? Would you have liked to see him struggle like he did so many times alongside Denilson, Diaby and now Frimpong (not his fault, he was chucked in at the deep end)? Don't these players deserve their talent to be appreciated and complimented? Ultimately I'd like them to stay and it all gets my goat but you need to be realistic and..

Also, I'm at a loss to the 'get real, it's not 1975' means.

..there's no loyalty like there used to be. Players have more freedom. He won't stick around for the love of it, as you well know. Nasri wants trophies, we're not really in that market right now. Blimey, some fans will accept anything. Players, unfortunately for us, won't. Why would he hang about? Would you stick with your day job if the company was a bit shit and you had a better option?

You know what I'm talking about, the game has changed. You'd be daft not to know that.

[hercules]

Just got back from the game, a massive disappointment. Our line up was embarrassing. Our squad is so weak and threadbare it's a joke and I just feel we have a long old season ahead. I thought frimpong played well apart from the really stupid first yellow within minutes of kickoff but I must say he has the attributes to be good though we have to sign a midfield enforcer immediately!! This game should be evidence enough that unless we sign at least 4big players I really can't see us finishing 4th. This week is massive for us as we have two big games that will shape our season one way or another and after today's result we cannot go into those games without new blood. I would personally love nasri to stay though he should not be Playing in the middle, but I can't blame him for wanting out of what looks like a sinking ship.

[mop]

@Dude

No, I understand that and appreciate it but my point isn't about loyalty man. It's about what we as fans think of the team, not the players themselves. If WE think players are too good for the team then shit is getting really fucked. I'm down with the bleak out-look hardcore cynicism type shit but let's try and reel it in a bit. Like I said, the worst kind of mindset we could all fall into is one of self-loathing. Not that I'm accusing anyone of anything like that just yet.

This is me being as...positive...as I can. We are fucked. We need to be fixed. But we can't just let go completely, throw our hands in the air and call everything shit. Fucking hard, I know. I'm trying, is all.

[Dude Ranch]

@Dude

No, I understand that and appreciate it but my point isn't about loyalty man. It's about what we as fans think of the team. If WE think players are too good for the team then shit is getting really fucked. I'm down with the bleak out-look hardcore cynicism type shit but let's try and reel it in a bit. Like I said, the worst kind of mindset we could all fall into is one of self-loathing. Not that I'm accusing anyone of anything like that just yet.

This is me being as...positive...as I can. We are fucked. We need to be fixed. But we can't just let go completely, throw our hands in the air and call everything shit. Fucking hard, I know. I'm trying, is all.

Yeah, I went downstairs and sat on the naughty chair and realised that having a ruck with an Arsenal fan is bananas and I'm sorry. This is before I've read the post I'm replying to, which I'll read now. And I do respect your opinion.

EDIT: Well, I know I've said this but I'm 40. I've been through the mill with Arsenal from my year dot, stuck with it (not through choice!) and loved it. I was also fortunate/unfortunate to have my season ticket, with my dear old dad, for the decade that gave us the best football I've ever witnessed anywhere. It's a long way to fall. And I'm lost with regards to finding a reason for our recent 'apparent lack of ambition', funds or whatever it is. I don't know what to think.

[mop]

Yeah, I went downstairs and sat on the naughty chair and realised that having a ruck with an Arsenal fan is bananas and I'm sorry. This is before I've read the post I'm replying to, which I'll read now. And I do respect your opinion.

Hey man, no worries. I know what it's like after watching the bullshit we just watched.

Edit: Really, to be fair, I'm trying a bit too hard to curtail the very understandable anger building up in the thread.

[Lucas]

There clearly is money to spend though - AOC cost in excess of £10m. I'm pretty sure that those funds could have been used to bring in one or, at a push, two decent players in defence/defensive midfield. Wenger's priorities are different from ours.

[Guest]

Not quite sure why you were all so taken by Frimbomb - his sending off actually cost you the game.

He'll be decent if he calms down, yet once he went you were totally spent.

[Rev]

We were shit, but the fact we only lost by one real goal when we'd got a Charlton player, someone I didn't even know existed, someone who was out for a season and someone in the wrong position in defence isn't that bad really, is it? Frimpong is fun, Lansbury seems keen to join him and Wilshere in the We Kick People Hard category. Compare the form that the two teams went into the match with and it was a sort of creditable performance as far as the defence goes.

The problem, which is always my problem, is that the established players were the ones that let it down - Arshavin, Walcott, RVP to an extent (although it wasn't really his fault he didn't get the ball more than twice), Nasri for large chunks of the match. That's basically the entire top-half of the pitch and a hell of a lot of money in wages. Why not just go for it and put Miyachi and Chamberlain in if we're too poor to buy Mata and Hazard?

There clearly is money to spend though - AOC cost in excess of £10m. I'm pretty sure that those funds could have been used to bring in one or, at a push, two decent players in defence/defensive midfield. Wenger's priorities are different from ours.

Of course he didn't. He cost two or three million and a massively elaborate set of add-ons that we hope we'll never have to pay, just like Walcott.

Not quite sure why you were all so taken by Frimbomb - his sending off actually cost you the game.

He'll be decent if he calms down, yet once he went you were totally spent.

Shit, if you don't think he's very good he must be even better than we thought!

[hercules]

We are not too poor to buy those players, wenger would just prefer to buy kids. chamberlain cost what 12mil? that would sign Samba or Dann or Parker but wenger would prefer a kid from league one. 6mil would have gotten Enrique.

[SMD]

Of course he didn't. He cost two or three million and a massively elaborate set of add-ons that we hope we'll never have to pay, just like Walcott.

Apparently it was £7m up front.

[toythatkills]

Why not just go for it and put Miyachi and Chamberlain in if we're too poor to buy Mata and Hazard?

Indeed. If you've got a team that can't quite compete for skill, then scare the opposition with pace. Can you imagine how fucked Carragher would have been with those three running at him? Even without the experience they'd have still pulled Liverpool's defence all over the place and maybe created some space for Van Persie. Or meant there was some players in the box on the off chance that Walcott has got a ball in. On which note, I wish Wenger would stop playing Walcott on the wing. Give him a few months up front where he's meant to play and if he's still not cutting it, sell him to Man City for twice what he's worth. There's absolutely no point in persisting with this any longer, it's never worked and it's never going to work.

Instead it was all fucking about slowly in midfield again.

[Dude Ranch]

I wish Wenger would stop playing Walcott on the wing. Give him a few months up front where he's meant to play and if he's still not cutting it, sell him to Man City for twice what he's worth. There's absolutely no point in persisting with this any longer, it's never worked and it's never going to work.

Yeah, I agree. He's far more dangerous down the middle. His finishing can be very good, funnily enough. The number of times today 'the fastest player in the country' could've knocked it past the fullback and absolutely done him was incredible. He's completely stuck, we've taught him nothing. Mind you, doing your bollocks to the touchline and sticking in a cross to nobody is ridiculous too.

[Chewylegs]

Fuck sake. Frimpong was my man of the match up to now.

Really?! He fouled his way around the pitch! He looked enthusiastic, some good tackles but basically all over the place.

[toythatkills]

Just been posted on the BBC that Nasri to City isn't dead yet.

[Guest]

Shit, if you don't think he's very good he must be even better than we thought!

A most strange thing to say - considering you guys must by now be sick of Wenger buying all these youngsters who consistently piss you all off...and the latest helps lose the game with some stupid tacking.

I thought you'd prefer to buy finished articles (Suarez) rather than constant youngsters by now, or have y'all changed your minds?

So in here the abuse is hurled at Walcott/RVP, not the guy who ultimately let his team down.

I guess we'll wait until this newest one becomes the new Denilson and you turn on him as with the others.

[hercules]

One positive out of today is that big Tommy V was immense!! He was a rock and i'm so happy he's fit again

[toythatkills]

Especially since with injuries he's going to be playing in a back one soon.

[Rev]

A most strange thing to say - considering you guys must by now be sick of Wenger buying all these youngsters who consistently piss you all off...and the latest helps lose the game with some stupid tacking.

I thought you'd prefer to buy finished articles (Suarez) rather than constant youngsters by now, or have y'all changed your minds?

So in here the abuse is hurled at Walcott/RVP, not the guy who ultimately let his team down.

I guess we'll wait until this newest one becomes the new Denilson and you turn on him as with the others.

So, you read the post where I said I wanted us to put more youngsters in and you were like "here's a guy that definitely disapproves of youngsters being in the team".

There's no wonder you find football so complicated when you've not mastered reading yet.

[hercules]

I guess i've had a few hours to calm down but the fact remains we need real strengthening. It's a massive shame that some of these kids were making their debuts in such a big game and i wonder if wenger planned to rush them into the team so soon or if he was forced due to injuries ans suspensions. I really hope we sign some big players this week, i'm holding on to the hope that if we do qualify for the chapions league, 3players will be signed before our trip to old trafford. Heres hoping...

[Guest]

So, you read the post where I said I wanted us to put more youngsters in and you were like "here's a guy that definitely disapproves of youngsters being in the team".

There's no wonder you find football so complicated when you've not mastered reading yet.

I think you didn't quite get the thrust my good fellow!

You guys will throw in more youngsters, see them not perform in the longer term (due to a lack of leadership in the team what with all the youngsters), and then have a go at them. Back in the day it was all about Walcott and his promise, now it's "he's rubbish!".

Then you'll say "More youngsters!" and the cycle repeats itself.

What I'm saying is that if you bought some slightly older players you'd do better.

Sure all our players didn't fire today, yet we brought on Suarez and Meireles - and they flipped the game in conduction with your amazing new guy taking an early bath.

They're older, more experienced players.

Hey it's early season and so much could change, yet Arsenal have been on this path for years.

You need experience and leaders not more kids. At this rate Wenger is going on a register.

(you'll never win anything with kids, etc - please bookmark this post to prove me wrong...although you could easily point to the Carling Cup last season)

[Steve007]

Not quite sure why you were all so taken by Frimbomb - his sending off actually cost you the game.

I agree, he was magnificent up until then, the stupid bellend.

As for the game today, it was a horrible reminder of how bad we are. No cutting edge, no threat to the opponents goal, Theo is shitter than ever, van Persie can't play up front by himself & he's also a very poor choice as captain. I don't ever recall him talking to the likes of Frimpong and telling him to calm down. He's got off to a very poor start. If Wenger brings no one in this week, I'll be watching the Man United v Arsenal game through my fingers.

On the plus side, Chesney in goal looks the business & it was great seeing Thomas Vermaelen getting stuck in. They were the only plus points - we are in the shit.