Arsenal

[Steve007]

Fuck knows what you'd be like if you were supporting mid-table mediocrity year in, year out.

I'd be less frustrated as I wouldn't expect so much.

[hercules]

I said we need investment in the squad. RVP never lasts a season and there's no replacement for him. If we lose our first choice centre backs we have the frightening option of Silvestre to step in. The goalie situation hasn't been addressed since we let Lehmann go and we need some quality in midfield.

Football is a squad game and we simply can't cope with injuries as the squad lacks depth and quality.

All in all we're missing a goalie which we all know and tbh what else? We supposedly have chamakh signed and bendtner has come on this year. Djourou has been out all season but we also need one more centre half and maybe a defender.

So:

1st choice Goalie

squad defender

squad defensive midfielder

striker

Not actually as much as it seems

[Rev]

I'd be less frustrated as I wouldn't expect so much.

Yeah.

Right.

Sure.

squad defensive midfielder

Eg. Cana.

[hobo]

I hope this doesnt lead to the usual post-euro blues but it's hard to imagine any other scenario, especially without Fab driving the others on.

Anyone fancy this team to pick themselves up and win at Spurs?

[rickyblaze]

Bendtner is very, very rapidly developing the knack of being in the right place at the right time though. That's what we haven't had for quite a while - if he develops as much next season as he has this he'll get an impressive number of goals.

completely agree, he just needs to think a little bit quicker before he takes the shot and he'll be some player

[hercules]

Yeah.

Right.

Sure.

Eg. Cana.

Though saying that i thought denilson played really well again

[Steve007]

I hope this doesnt lead to the usual post-euro blues but it's hard to imagine any other scenario, especially without Fab driving the others on.

Anyone fancy this team to pick themselves up and win at Spurs?

After a bad defeat we normally bounce back. Spurs away is just what we need.

[BlinkyBear]

[Rev]

Though saying that i thought denilson played really well again

He did, actually. Much as I think we should have bought Cana, I think now it'd be a bigger improvement to replace Diaby. He wasn't a problem when we had Ramsey, really, but someone better stood there could make quite a difference.

Gourcuff will do.

[Petrousgyre]

Real shame Ramsey wasn't around to play in this - not saying it would have changed the result but it'd have been great experience for him. Hope Barca go on to crucify Inter then win it - amazing footballing team.

[Art Vandelay]

I found the undiluted Messi praise pretty bitter going down as his play acting really helped to change things after they equalised. Barca's unremitting sportsmanship was very hard to take. Taking nothing away from the goals, but you have to question why he doesn't score four every game. The answer of course is that not everyone let's him dance around as you gaze upon his majestic footwork. Some of our defending was really terrible.

I guess the inquisition starts now. For all the talk of how attractive we are going forward, I still don't see it. We've been awful for long periods of this season and haven't exactly been sweeping teams aside. The fact that we're still feasibly in with a chance is an achievementi suppose but another fruitless season is very disheartening. Our brittle nancy boys will always get injured reguarly, so unless Wenger can change English football so it's not as rough then he's going to have to accept that we need to be up to the job physically too.

[carlito]

The one bad thing about The Invincibles is how spoiled and ungrateful it has made some fans. It's a real shame that people overlook the incredible achievements the club has made within a sustainable business structure. I guess it can be a bit hard for some people to appreciate the swanky 60k seater stadium they sit in which has ensured fantastic stable future revenue when they are playing championship manager in their heads and pissing about all the shit we don't have.

I suppose football means different things to different people. I can't help but feel some of these guys might find some kindred spirits down the road at Stamford Bridge - maybe time for a change of colours.

Anyway we were outplayed by far and away the best team in the world and there is no shame in that. Special shout to Silvestre who I thought stepped up pretty well, and it was nice to see that Clichy is actually capable of delivering a decent cross from time to time. Even Denilson didn't give me any real cause for bile! Shame Rosicky didn't do himself justice and shame that we couldn't put out our proper first eleven - although I'm not too sure it would have changed the end result.

I am sure in five years time when Messi is lauded as one of football most gifted players we all be able to crack a rueful smile and say "I remember when that boy slotted four past us at Camp Nou when he was 22 - the cunt!"

Today's spelling mistakes were brought to you by Apple iPhone.

[The Fox]

Our brittle nancy boys will always get injured reguarly, so unless Wenger can change English football so it's not as rough then he's going to have to accept that we need to be up to the job physically too.

So the way to stop all the snapped shins and ankle ligament injuries is to hit the gym? C'mon. I do think that questions should maybe be asked about the conditioning of the side because the amount of niggly injuries the guys get seems abnormally high. But it's the serious injuries that have really fucked us, mostly RVP's and, more recently, at a crucial time, Gallas'. You can't help that.

Edit - @ carlito - agreed. Steve, your constant criticism is nuts. Do you truly have no appreciation whatsoever for the constraints Wenger works within? His budget is barely that of a mid table side, and has been for years. And you're complaining about a loss to Barcelona? Christ.

[BigShimmeryWall]

Taking nothing away from the goals, but you have to question why he doesn't score four every game.

He's lazy, he usually slacks off after the hattrick

[Art Vandelay]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying we need to buy a squad of hench bruisers but we certainly need to address the issue of our farcical injury record. Long term injuries are one thing and can't be helped, but the fact that most of our squad only seem capable of stringing a handful of consecutive games together must surely be cause for concern and needs fixing as a priority.

[SeanR]

Arsenal have been largely outplayed over two legs - in the first leg, it should have been 4-0 or 5-0 after 20 minutes so to still be in it after the first game was lucky.

but it wasn't, so they wasn't.

[The Fox]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying we need to buy a squad of hench bruisers but we certainly need to address the issue of our farcical injury record. Long term injuries are one thing and can't be helped, but the fact that most of our squad only seem capable of stringing a handful of consecutive games together must surely be cause for concern and needs fixing as a priority.

Yes, I would agree with this. There does appear to be something amiss with the players' conditioning and it's caused us real problems.

[Chewylegs]

When talking about Messi!

He is like a PlayStation player," Wenger said.

Just like to say unlucky guys, in the end you came up against a better side with a player full of confidence and full of ability.

Now go on and win the league!

[SeanR]

All in all we're missing a goalie which we all know and tbh what else? We supposedly have chamakh signed and bendtner has come on this year. Djourou has been out all season but we also need one more centre half and maybe a defender.

So:

1st choice Goalie

squad defender

squad defensive midfielder

striker

Not actually as much as it seems

which brings me back to the liverpool thread comparision, where they want to rebuild the team around

Reina

Carragher

Gerrard

Torres

DYS?

Hang on lads, I've got an idea...

[phresh]

Edit - @ carlito - agreed. Steve, your constant criticism is nuts. Do you truly have no appreciation whatsoever for the constraints Wenger works within? His budget is barely that of a mid table side, and has been for years. And you're complaining about a loss to Barcelona? Christ.

A budget that includes one of the biggest wage bills in Europe? I don't think anyone can argue with what Wenger has achieved with a limited transfer budget but your wage bill has got to be in the region of 80 - 100 million a year, well in excess of what any mid table team can afford.

[jayboy]

I had £50 on Arsenal to win 1-0 with Bentdner scoring....gutted

[The Fox]

A budget that includes one of the biggest wage bills in Europe? I don't think anyone can argue with what Wenger has achieved with a limited transfer budget but your wage bill has got to be in the region of 80 - 100 million a year, well in excess of what any mid table team can afford.

You're right, although obviously our wage bill is mainly down the stupid amount of young players Wenger seems intent on stockpiling and then paying exorbitant wages to, rather than vastly inflated salaries to a few top names. We pay the kids way too much, but I guess that's part of the reason we nab them all.

Anyway I'm not really pleading poverty as such, just reminding the doom-and-gloom merchants that Wenger has done a very very good job to keep us where we are given certain monetary constraints, and we should appreciate that. Like carlito said, the successes of the late 90's to mid 00's have spoilt people and clouded their judgement. I understand frustration at things like the lack of CB cover, which we could all see was going to bit us in the arse at some point, but it's the OTT nature of the post-mortem that grates.

[Dude Ranch]

A budget that includes one of the biggest wage bills in Europe? I don't think anyone can argue with what Wenger has achieved with a limited transfer budget but your wage bill has got to be in the region of 80 - 100 million a year, well in excess of what any mid table team can afford.

We are one of the biggest Clubs in the world mate, what do you expect our wage bill to be? The obv. difference is that we don't/can't spend Rooney, Ferdinand, Ibrahimovic, Robinho, Drogba type money. That's where the difference on the field is and those players are earning at least three times more than most of our squad.

[Petrousgyre]

A budget that includes one of the biggest wage bills in Europe? I don't think anyone can argue with what Wenger has achieved with a limited transfer budget but your wage bill has got to be in the region of 80 - 100 million a year, well in excess of what any mid table team can afford.

It's around £100 million, well behind Chelsea(£150m) and ManU (£125). Also, my understanding is that Arsenal declare all their wage payments, wheras nearly all other clubs don't include performance bonuses etc in their wage bill - adjusted for that our wage bill would be closer to 75m, not much higher than some midtable sides. Certainly Arsenal wage to turnover ratio is the lowest in the Premiership by some distance at 33%. Interesting PDF here - little bit unfair on the newly promoted sides as it includes their turnover from last season.

[phresh]

We are one of the biggest Clubs in the world mate, what do you expect our wage bill to be? The obv. difference is that we don't/can't spend Rooney, Ferdinand, Ibrahimovic, Robinho, Drogba type money. That's where the difference on the field is and those players are earning at least three times more than most of our squad.

My point is that based on the amount of money you spend on the team (transfers, wages and everything else) Arsenal are probably in exactly the position they should be, top 3 in the league and in the top 10 teams in Europe. It’s when Arsenal fans say they should be grateful for the position they are in when based on expenditure you are probably where you should be.

[carlito]

My point is that based on the amount of money you spend on the team (transfers, wages and everything else) Arsenal are probably in exactly the position they should be, top 3 in the league and in the top 10 teams in Europe. It’s when Arsenal fans say they should be grateful for the position they are in when based on expenditure you are probably where you should be.

Our wage structure is stricter than Man U, Chels, Liverpool, Man City and in terms of willingness to pay for big money transfers you can probably stick Spurs in that group as well.

I think the below, although quite clearly not perfectly accurate, gives an idea of how Arsenal transfer policy compares:

Top 4 Transfer Spending 2004-2009

[Petrousgyre]

Without Song I fear we'll be torn to pieces. Denilson and Diaby aren't effective in that role. I dearly wish to be proved wrong.

David Pleats analysis in the Grauniad:

Arsenal needed a midfield stopper. Maybe Messi's outstanding talent would have made a mockery of such a player. Perhaps. But by allowing the best footballer in the world to find space Arsenal were blown away... The Arsenal manager was shorn of key players but, in retrospect, the most important absentee was his midfielder Alex Song.

I wasn't, sadly.

[hercules]

Now we need to bounce back against spurs now. As for our team i'm pretty happy with it. What i've said to a few of my friends about the keeper situation is that personally i would've tried to blood fabianski in as number 1 for the majority of this season (when almunia was playing shit) just to see if he can really cut it. 1 game here or there is not enough by any means. It's a shame djourou has been injured all season but in my opinion even if Gallas signs a new contract i'd have him and vermaelen as the first choice pairing next season. I really don't feel we're missing much at all. The ijuries are a concern esp as this has happened for the past 4 odd years now, it needs to be addressed. The big disappointment for me this season has been Eduardo and Vela, as after all the promise they showed we have seen nothing all season. Eduardo is out of form and confidence and i'm hoping he can rediscover his kiiler touch for next season. Vela well he needs to improve, mayb a loan would really be the best thing for him next season.

We still have a chance in the league, and even if we don't win a trophy this season it will still be a good season as we have thought in the league the whole way to the end. Maybe next season we should put more effort in the carling cup.

[The Fox]

Now we need to bounce back against spurs now. As for our team i'm pretty happy with it. What i've said to a few of my friends about the keeper situation is that personally i would've tried to blood fabianski in as number 1 for the majority of this season (when almunia was playing shit) just to see if he can really cut it. 1 game here or there is not enough by any means. It's a shame djourou has been injured all season but in my opinion even if Gallas signs a new contract i'd have him and vermaelen as the first choice pairing next season. I really don't feel we're missing much at all. The ijuries are a concern esp as this has happened for the past 4 odd years now, it needs to be addressed. The big disappointment for me this season has been Eduardo and Vela, as after all the promise they showed we have seen nothing all season. Eduardo is out of form and confidence and i'm hoping he can rediscover his kiiler touch for next season. Vela well he needs to improve, mayb a loan would really be the best thing for him next season.

We still have a chance in the league, and even if we don't win a trophy this season it will still be a good season as we have thought in the league the whole way to the end. Maybe next season we should put more effort in the carling cup.

Eduardo is by no means finished and just needs games to get back into his stride. However first he's going to have to shake off these niggly injuries -- an unhindered pre-season with no World Cup should help here.

[hercules]

Yeah of course and i'd love nothing more than to see him back playing well. I've just been disappointed with him this season, hopefully next season will be his time.