Arsenal

[Orion]

I went on what I saw on tv which was the Stoke fans giving him a standing ovation with one idiot giving him the wanker sign. If some Stoke fans were chanting it obviously wasent many as you couldn't hear it on tv.

The get over yourself comment was because Art Vanderly said " I wouldn't expect much more from the supporter of a team where a section of their fans were jeering and giving wanker signs to a boy who's had his legs snapped in two."

This happens all the time with every set of fans when someone gets hurt. Most are respectful and some idiots will always act like idiots.

[Dude Ranch]

I went on what I saw on tv which was the Stoke fans giving him a standing ovation with one idiot giving him the wanker sign. If some Stoke fans were chanting it obviously wasent many as you couldn't hear it on tv.

I watched it in a pub on a small telly. I didn't hear any chants but saw plenty of gesturing. Anyway, doesn't really matter.

[Nate Dogg III]

Seem to remember the Emirates crowd taking an enormous amount of pleasure in the sight of (not even the correct) Davies being stretchered off in agony against Bolton a matter of weeks ago so let's not point fingers eh? Football crowds in tending to contain knuckle-dragging wankers shocker, hold the fucking front page.

Also, which uncultured, agricultural, 60s-lower-league clogger broke Samir Nasri's leg in pre season training?

I think everyone's right. I think teams from the lower reaches of the table are coached to go in hard on Arsenal players and I also think a lot of Arsenal players are brittle as all fuck hence your injury problems in general.

[Eats hoops and leaves]

Arsenal don't play as well if you close them down, we all know that an frankly we're ok with it. The suggestion that you need to kick and hurt them rather than actually compete in a game of football is cowardly and moronic. I wouldn't expect much more from the supporter of a team where a section of their fans were jeering and giving wanker signs to a boy who's had his legs snapped in two.

Oh come on, you sound like a bit of a dick here.

The original comment clearly stated a section of their crowd did it. You said it was one person, the rest of their crowd gave a standing ovation. You've now changed your tune cos you were wrong. I don't disagree about the universal stupidity of football fans but the 'get over yourself comment' was daft.

This is also a dickish comment.

[Liamness]

It's part of the appeal (for some) of going to a football match; disappearing into the crowd lets them ignore social niceties, and concentrate on hating whoever is playing them for that afternoon. Going further, sometimes United fans (for example), can get distracted if the game is done and dusted and begin to sing about City or Liverpool. Of course, there is a difference between the kind of superficial, pantomime hatred that all enjoy, and the crazies who take it a bit too far. Allow me to get to my point... I'm not surprised some fans did not behave with tact and restraint in response to the injury, but where would football matches be without socially challenged idiots spewing sub-adolescent bile? You can't take anything they do or say very seriously, and indeed I can only find this sort of thing amusing.

[Dude Ranch]

This is also a dickish comment.

In what possible way? He said it was one person and it wasn't, it simply was not. I corrected him and also acknowledged that it's a universal problem in football.

What interest is it of yours anyway? Have you got anything to add or are you just spoiling for an argument? You don't sound like you know anything about it or have anything to say.

[Eats hoops and leaves]

In what possible way? He said it was one person and it wasn't, it simply was not. I corrected him and also acknowledged that it's a universal problem in football.

What interest is it of yours anyway? Have you got anything to add or are you just spoiling for an argument? You don't sound like you know anything about it or have anything to say.

In the possible way that you're so desperate to point the finger at somebody that you're having a go at the morons who jeered, and when somebody says 'yeah but they're the absolute minority' you desperately try and win an internet point by starting to get pedantic about the amount of morons in the crowd. Well... done? Both you and Art are suggesting that you're better people because you support Arsenal rather than Stoke. This line of reasoning makes you sound like a smug tit. Guess what: loads of Arsenal fans are morons too.

And it's of complete interest of mine. Am I not allowed to be interested?

[Arc'Tan'Gent]

At first I thought it was just an unnecessarily hard tackle, and had a bit of sympathy for the lad when he was welling up, but now I'm not so sure.

Exhibit A: http://content.thisis.co.uk/sentinel07/hom...el_backpage.pdf

Exhibit B: http://www.twitvid.com/3BCE0

I don't doubt that Pulis told his boys to go in hard on Arsenal, but I think he heeded the advice a bit too well.

[Daley]

At first I thought it was just an unnecessarily hard tackle, and had a bit of sympathy for the lad when he was welling up, but now I'm not so sure.

Exhibit A: http://content.thisis.co.uk/sentinel07/hom...el_backpage.pdf

Exhibit B: http://www.twitvid.com/3BCE0

I don't doubt that Pulis told his boys to go in hard on Arsenal, but I think he heeded the advice a bit too well.

I don't for a second think he intended to injure anyone but I am pretty sure he wanted to go in hard, and was encouraged to do so by his manager. He did, and was reckless and now a 19 year old boy has a broken leg. That's about all there is to it for me.

I don't really care what their fans do or say. I'm more concerned about players saying they intend to "rough up" Arsenal or those in the media perpetuating the idea that "you have to kick Arsenal to stop them" as if this were a legitimate tactic as this results in scenes that we saw on Saturday.

[Arc'Tan'Gent]

Oh, for sure. I don't think it was malicious, and I think Arsene Wenger's conspiracy theories are really just him venting frustration.

Still, another big injury for Arsenal. Fuck's sake.

[Liamness]

It's perfectly possible to press and harass teams without 'hard challenges'. I don't see what advantage it gives you (not that I'm saying that's the game Stoke played), you just amass yellows and give away free kicks. I would honestly prefer it if our league was a little more like Spain, every time there is an unnecessary or clumsy challenge it's called up on. As long as referee's know when to play advantage, it shouldn't affect the flow too badly, and the effect would be negligible once those sort of 'letting him know I'm there' challenges became less frequent anyway. I'm not surprised the likes of Kaká and Ronaldo and Messi are all in Spain, they don't get kicked so much there.

[Dude Ranch]

In the possible way that you're so desperate to point the finger at somebody that you're having a go at the morons who jeered, and when somebody says 'yeah but they're the absolute minority' you desperately try and win an internet point by starting to get pedantic about the amount of morons in the crowd. Well... done? Both you and Art are suggesting that you're better people because you support Arsenal rather than Stoke. This line of reasoning makes you sound like a smug tit. Guess what: loads of Arsenal fans are morons too.

And it's of complete interest of mine. Am I not allowed to be interested?

You're way off, actually. The original comment, to which I replied, said it was one person. I said it wasn't. It's not point scoring, it's a matter of fact in a conversation we're all having. I also pointed out at the time, and again since, that it's a universal problem. Arsenal fans are humans too, I know cos I sat with them for ten years.

You're allowed to be interested, of course. Blundering in calling people dicks though, and smug tits. Bit silly.

[Steve007]

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

Quality, as always.

[Art Vandelay]

Hoop, frankly I don't particuarly care if I've come across as a dick. All I'm seeing across these boards and plenty of others is supporters of teams at the lower end of the division suggesting there's nothing wrong with hurting players if it helps you win games. Are they as bad as the fans in the crowd on Saturday? Probably not, but they're all part of the same mind set that I see as moronic.

[Liamness]

@Steve

The point about the entertainment side of it rings true to me; every time a leg is broken, the amount of interest and coverage must be a money spinner. As well as all the debate, column inches and 'expert' analysis it generates, it also allows violence to be shown in an acceptable context. I'm not saying Shawcross is violent, but the act was violent, and the result was violent. It has been printed in our newspapers and shown on our television screens, freezing the moment for our morbid curiosity. It sells. Why would the FA want to stop this from happening again?

[Dude Ranch]

Why would the FA want to stop this from happening again?

As much as they're a bunch of incompetent fools, I wouldn't say they're happy for this to be happening. They're just too spineless and scared of any backlash if they try to clamp down. At one point you'd say that the physicality of our game was a selling point but I think this is out of date now. If anyone still thinks that then it's the English. Good football is preferred elsewhere, but we still crave the hell for leather rubbish that we've been serving up for best part of a century. Well, in fairness it's only the Clubs who can't compete technically that still revere the blood and guts stuff. They can't entertain the notion of improving their game and competing at actual football and in a way football has made this rod for it's own back because of the financial implications. I think the tide will change and people will begin to come round to the technical game. I hope so. One nil to the Arsenal was OK at the time but there's no way I'd go back to that. With the money, knowledge and training facilities available now we should expect a certain level of expertise and entertainment. Sorry to pile in on about Stoke, but when you consider that their main attacking threat would crumble if the ballboy was off ill, it's not a great advert for the Prem. With that and the strong arm tactics teams are happy to employ I'm not sure how long the Prem can appeal globally when compared to La Liga, for instance. We used to laugh when a foreign referee gave a free kick for a raised foot. I'd rather see that than a snapped leg.

[Nate Dogg III]

Sorry to pile in on about Stoke, but when you consider that their main attacking threat would crumble if the ballboy was off ill, it's not a great advert for the Prem.

Neither's sliding in two footed from behind then shushing the opposition's coach when he rightly complains to the ref but don't let that stop you.

Fucking embarrassment this thread. Shame they don't give a trophy out for moral superiority, you lot would stroll it.

[hobo]

Moving on; looking at the last 10 games, how do you call it?

A guess...

Chelsea - 25/30 possible points

Chelsea v West Ham 3

Blackburn v Chelsea 3

Portsmouth v Chelsea 3

Chelsea v Aston Villa 3

Man Utd v Chelsea 1

Chelsea v Bolton 3

Tottenham v Chelsea 3

Chelsea v Stoke 3

Liverpool v Chelsea 0

Chelsea v Wigan 3

Man U - 23/30 possible points

Wolverhampton v Man Utd 3

Man Utd v Fulham 3

Man Utd v Liverpool 1

Bolton v Man Utd 3

Man Utd v Chelsea 1

Blackburn v Man Utd 3

Man City v Man Utd 0

Man Utd v Tottenham 3

Sunderland v Man Utd 3

Man Utd v Stoke 3

Arsenal - 24/30 possible points

Arsenal v Burnley 3

Hull v Arsenal 3

Arsenal v West Ham 3

Birmingham v Arsenal 1

Arsenal v Wolverhampton 3

Tottenham v Arsenal 1

Wigan v Arsenal 3

Arsenal v Man City 1

Blackburn v Arsenal 3

Arsenal v Fulham 3

Chelsea 86

Man Utd 83

Arsenal 82

Chelsea and ManU both lose one more game, Arsenal go unbeaten but draw a few.

For Arsenal to win, they really can't afford to drop any more than two points.

[Chadruharazzeb]

Neither's sliding in two footed from behind then shushing the opposition's coach when he rightly complains to the ref but don't let that stop you.

Fucking embarrassment this thread. Shame they don't give a trophy out for moral superiority, you lot would stroll it.

Well said that man. Pour yourself a drink.

[Dude Ranch]

Neither's sliding in two footed from behind then shushing the opposition's coach when he rightly complains to the ref but don't let that stop you.

Fucking embarrassment this thread. Shame they don't give a trophy out for moral superiority, you lot would stroll it.

Nicely taken out of context, as usual. Well done soppy knickers.

[Mars]

Bendtner: "But now we will go and win the title for Aaron."

FUCK YEAH.

[Steve007]

Moving on; looking at the last 10 games, how do you call it?

At the start of the season I predicted Chelsea would win it, followed by Man United, Liverpool then us.

I think we will finish 3rd and no higher which would be quite remarkable considering the lack of depth at the club.

[Don Wiskerando]

Nicely taken out of context, as usual. Well done soppy knickers.

I think the point is, Arsenal fans seem to think that Arsenal only play beautiful football. You all seem to be as blind as Wenger when the criticsim goes the other way.

I'm a Stoke fan - have been since I first went at the age of 5. The people who jeered at the game are a minority. Not everyone who supports Stoke is an idiot, some of us just choose to support the local team.

[SeanR]

I think the point is, Arsenal fans seem to think that Arsenal only play beautiful football. You all seem to be as blind as Wenger when the criticsim goes the other way.

I'm a Stoke fan - have been since I first went at the age of 5. The people who jeered at the game are a minority. Not everyone who supports Stoke is an idiot, some of us just choose to support the local team.

OoooOOOOoooooh!

[Dude Ranch]

I think the point is, Arsenal fans seem to think that Arsenal only play beautiful football.

Well, we do. No, we don't. But there's not that much footy played across the division. Not that there's a law against it. That's my opinion, do you disagree? I mean, the throw in thing. Fair enough, we need to learn to defend it. But it's not really worth paying to see, and then there's the time it all takes to trudge over, get the towel.. As a neutral would you watch that or switch over to a Spanish game? I only gave it as an example of how the English game is still a bit huff and puff. Stoke scored good goals in the FA Cup against us to be fair though.

You all seem to be as blind as Wenger when the criticsim goes the other way.

I love all this whinging Wenger, Wenger's blind etc. etc. What about your manager? Shawcross isn't that kind of player. Yeah, apart from the other broken leg he dished out. And the tackle on Adebayor that's been posted a million times. Where does Wenger's moaning stop and Pullis' start?

I'm a Stoke fan - have been since I first went at the age of 5. The people who jeered at the game are a minority. Not everyone who supports Stoke is an idiot.

I've got no problem with Stoke fans whatsoever. Again, I was taken out of context earlier.

Some of just choose to support the loacl team.

My hero.

[Don Wiskerando]

Some of just choose to support the loacl team.

My hero.

aimed squarely at myself

[Liamness]

You can't blame Pullis for defending his player, just as Wenger has his temporary fits of blindness. You've got to stick by your players, unless they've been 'Joey Barton' stupid. Chastise them all you like in private, just don't hang them out to dry in your post-match.

[Dude Ranch]

aimed squarely at myself

[SeanR]

I like to think that although it WAS an accident, the ref had to give the red card, as Shawcrosse remaining on the pitch would have untenable and potentially divisive.

[Dude Ranch]

You can't blame Pullis for defending his player, just as Wenger has his temporary fits of blindness. You've got to stick by your players, unless they've been 'Joey Barton' stupid. Chastise them all you like in private, just don't hang them out to dry in your post-match.

I'm not really blaming him. I'm just amazed at the reaction Wenger always gets when other managers are the same. I mean, we go on about not liking foreigners and jingoism and all that but fucking hell. Wenger sees the third player in four years get snapped in half and all people want to focus on is him being upset at the rough tactics we face. Which is true and the opposition admit to it. It's all backwards.

You know, three brutal broken legs in the face of overly physical opposition. You don't need to be a genius. It's not pleasant to watch by anyone's standards. It'll take a Rooney or Lampard getting done before anything changes.