Arsenal

[Mars]

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...5325073,00.html

"Wenger noted: "United bounced back very well, and credit to them.

"They have bought very well and invested very well. Today, they look the best team in England - and they are.".

[g wings]

Well, all this talk of who we should/shouldn't buy seems redundant. According to a couple of media sources over the weekend, Arsene has a budget of 13m for the summer... wooooppppeeeeeeee. Could be rubbish of course. But then he could be given 100m and still spend fuck all...

[Steve007]

I thought it was a good performance on Saturday. We were resilient and could easily have nicked 3 points. It just goes to show that when the spotlight is on the team after some severe criticism they can put a performance in. It also proves that many of the points dropped has been down to a complete lack of effort by the team and then they wonder why they get criticised so much!

Come the end of the season, how can we have beaten the likes of Man United and Chelsea at their own ground yet lost to teams like Hull & Stoke? Wenger had a pop at the home crowd the other day, the team get stick because 60,000 people can see too many players not giving 100%! Nothing less than 100% is good enough. It makes me sick to see Adebuyor plodding around like he couldn't give a fuck. Surely Adebuyor must be embarrassed when watching someone like Gibbs giving absolutely everything.

As for the £13m budget, I really hope that's a wind-up. £13m wouldn't buy the right leg of David Villa!

[Lucas]

Yeah, I read that - £13m and needs to sell to buy, fund earmarked for transfers instead needed to keep rvp and others.

Probably a load of old bollocks.

Whilst I like the "fantasy" transfer specualtion in this thread the endless media speculation all summer drives me mad. If we've learnt anything from AW, it's that his transfers are generally kept under wraps and the media speculation is just that.

[mop]

I thought it was a good performance on Saturday. We were resilient and could easily have nicked 3 points. It just goes to show that when the spotlight is on the team after some severe criticism they can put a performance in. It also proves that many of the points dropped has been down to a complete lack of effort by the team and then they wonder why they get criticised so much!

Come the end of the season, how can we have beaten the likes of Man United and Chelsea at their own ground yet lost to teams like Hull & Stoke? Wenger had a pop at the home crowd the other day, the team get stick because 60,000 people can see too many players not giving 100%! Nothing less than 100% is good enough. It makes me sick to see Adebuyor plodding around like he couldn't give a fuck. Surely Adebuyor must be embarrassed when watching someone like Gibbs giving absolutely everything.

As for the £13m budget, I really hope that's a wind-up. £13m wouldn't buy the right leg of David Villa!

Because we didn't (unless you only ment chelsea and I'm an idiot that failed to read the sentence right)

Agree with you though, these players lack consistency in their attitude and that fucking really can piss you off.

Try or fuck off.

[Steve007]

Because we didn't (unless you only ment chelsea and I'm an idiot that failed to read the sentence right)

Agree with you though, these players lack consistency in their attitude and that fucking really can piss you off.

Try or fuck off.

I meant we beat Man United and beat Chelsea at their own ground (quite some feat considering they hadn't been beaten for about 4 years).

[Daley]

I think a large part of our transfer fund is going to be from selling Adebayor. If anyone is in any doubt watch this.

He blames the fans for turning on him. Nothing to do with his shameless flirting with Barca and Milan for the past 12 months.

I don't think we will ever see him in an Arsenal shirt again. And good riddance. The worst example of a player believing the hype about himself. Ever.

Even if the money available now is £13m and we sell Adebayor for £15m (a conservative estimate despite his shite form this season) I think a centre back and central midfielder (the minimum the squad needs) can easily be bought for £28m. Vidic cost £7m. Agger about the same (I think). Skrtel also. That leaves about £20m for a central midfielder.

What I don't want to see is any Adebayor transfer drag on all summer, delaying our spending plans. And any rumours about Cesc or anyone else (well except Diaby) leaving can fuck right off.

[Commander Jameson]

I meant we beat Man United and beat Chelsea at their own ground (quite some feat considering they hadn't been beaten for about 4 years).

Not to take away your thunder, but it was actually only a few weeks since we (Liverpool) beat them at their ground, but your point is still valid. We had a similar problem with smaller teams, but whereas we drew more games than we should have, you lost more.

[mop]

Yeah, I did coped that after I posted steve, sorry!

But like I said, your point is bang on that this team is can be fucking frustrating. I'm starting to think that maybe Cesc wasn't ready to captain the side. Problem being who else is there in the team that can? I'm not suggesting we change the captain, god knows that would only fuck us up more.

We need to bring in players that can help keep heads up and change the general attitude of a lot of the team.

[CandyBob]

I thought it was a good performance on Saturday. We were resilient and could easily have nicked 3 points. It just goes to show that when the spotlight is on the team after some severe criticism they can put a performance in. It also proves that many of the points dropped has been down to a complete lack of effort by the team and then they wonder why they get criticised so much!

Come the end of the season, how can we have beaten the likes of Man United and Chelsea at their own ground yet lost to teams like Hull & Stoke? Wenger had a pop at the home crowd the other day, the team get stick because 60,000 people can see too many players not giving 100%! Nothing less than 100% is good enough. It makes me sick to see Adebuyor plodding around like he couldn't give a fuck. Surely Adebuyor must be embarrassed when watching someone like Gibbs giving absolutely everything.

As for the £13m budget, I really hope that's a wind-up. £13m wouldn't buy the right leg of David Villa!

It was a pretty good performance all things considered. ManU got to a point where they knew we were going to struggle to score and sat back. Even so, not many teams go to OT and have the sort of possesion we did. We even created a couple of chances.

I was intrigued by the BBC's Adebayor interview. Apart from the fact that it was done by that little snake Crooks, my immediate reaction was a kneejerk one. After watching it again though its clear that after Crooks asks some of his questions, the answers had been edited and I got the feeling that we heard what the BBC wanted us to hear. Not defending him at all as he spoke some real shite but I'd like to see the unedited version.

[SeanR]

It was a pretty good performance all things considered. ManU got to a point where they knew we were going to struggle to score and sat back. Even so, not many teams go to OT and have the sort of possesion we did. We even created a couple of chances.

I was intrigued by the BBC's Adebayor interview. Apart from the fact that it was done by that little snake Crooks, my immediate reaction was a kneejerk one. After watching it again though its clear that after Crooks asks some of his questions, the answers had been edited and I got the feeling that we heard what the BBC wanted us to hear. Not defending him at all as he spoke some real shite but I'd like to see the unedited version.

This one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/f...cus/8053447.stm

Yeah. He's saying he's lost the support of the fans because of the speculation generated by the sports press.

[CandyBob]

Yeah, I did coped that after I posted steve, sorry!

But like I said, your point is bang on that this team is can be fucking frustrating. I'm starting to think that maybe Cesc wasn't ready to captain the side. Problem being who else is there in the team that can? I'm not suggesting we change the captain, god knows that would only fuck us up more.

We need to bring in players that can help keep heads up and change the general attitude of a lot of the team.

Fab should never have been made captain when he was imo. I think it was a poor decision made more out of desperation than anything else. I don't think he has the temperament at the moment and would rather he concentrated on his game.

The only captain in the side appears to be Toure. Even when his form is off he's always commited and has a great temperament.

[CandyBob]

This one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/f...cus/8053447.stm

Yeah. He's saying he's lost the support of the fans because of the speculation generated by the sports press.

Thats the one.

The press hype it up but maybe if he ran about on the pitch a bit it might help.

[carlito]

I wonder how much that interview has taken off Adebayor's transfer price.

As necessary as I think his departure now is, it won't be easy to find a replacement.

Obviously Villa is a great striker, but he's a pretty similar player to Eduardo who will be available next season. If we lose Adebayor next season we will be losing someone who, when he can be bothered, adds strength and aerial presence to our front line, and I am not sure, in spite of his obvious talent, that is what the little Spaniard does best. Considering we don't even know how good Eduardo can be for Arsenal, it seems a bit reckless to blow the entire transfer kitty on a role that may already be filled next season.

Benzema would obviously be great, but given the prices Aulas seems to get for his players I suspect he is financially out of reach. I would be surprised to see him leave Lyon for under £30mio and, like it or not, we aren't the type of club who can pay that.

Edin Dzeko has been banging them in for Wolfsberg all season and physically he looks the part. However I haven't seen enough of him to know if he is the type of player who could fit into the technical passing style of football we play because if he is expecting a regular supply of crosses coming into the box he will be sorely disappointed at the Arse. Anyway the rumblings are that he might be available at the end of the season if the coach leaves for Shalke, and I suspect he would just about be within our budget.

The press jumped on our scouts being at Stuggart and have spread their speculation between us looking at Boulahrouz and Gomez. Mario Gomez would seem to tick pretty much all of the boxes in that he's a tall, strong, mobile striker who scores a load of goals, but I wonder if he will even be available in the off season.

I know we have been tenuously linked with Bafetimbi Gomis a few times, but that would surely be a gamble of the highest order as he hasn't proved himself at all at the highest level.

Anyway as with pretty much all our transfers, I suspect the first we hear will be when it is officially announced on Arsenal.com.

[CandyBob]

I wonder how much that interview has taken off Adebayor's transfer price.

As necessary as I think his departure now is, it won't be easy to find a replacement.

Obviously Villa is a great striker, but he's a pretty similar player to Eduardo who will be available next season. If we lose Adebayor next season we will be losing someone who, when he can be bothered, adds strength and aerial presence to our front line, and I am not sure, in spite of his obvious talent, that is what the little Spaniard does best. Considering we don't even know how good Eduardo can be for Arsenal, it seems a bit reckless to blow the entire transfer kitty on a role that may already be filled next season.

Benzema would obviously be great, but given the prices Aulas seems to get for his players I suspect he is financially out of reach. I would be surprised to see him leave Lyon for under £30mio and, like it or not, we aren't the type of club who can pay that.

Edin Dzeko has been banging them in for Wolfsberg all season and physically he looks the part. However I haven't seen enough of him to know if he is the type of player who could fit into the technical passing style of football we play because if he is expecting a regular supply of crosses coming into the box he will be sorely disappointed at the Arse. Anyway the rumblings are that he might be available at the end of the season if the coach leaves for Shalke, and I suspect he would just about be within our budget.

The press jumped on our scouts being at Stuggart and have spread their speculation between us looking at Boulahrouz and Gomez. Mario Gomez would seem to tick pretty much all of the boxes in that he's a tall, strong, mobile striker who scores a load of goals, but I wonder if he will even be available in the off season.

I know we have been tenuously linked with Bafetimbi Gomis a few times, but that would surely be a gamble of the highest order as he hasn't proved himself at all at the highest level.

Anyway as with pretty much all our transfers, I suspect the first we hear will be when it is officially announced on Arsenal.com.

Bendtner could play a big part next season. I thought he was our most improved player along with Song as the season progressed. He lost some momentum after picking up a small injury in an International. He has the touch of a bulldozer but he does make the effort (much like Ade last season).

Be suprised to see a striker come in though tbh.

[phresh]

Why do you reckon Wenger has been so hesitant to give Vela more game time?

[Mars]

Swine Flu.

[phresh]

[carlito]

Bendtner could play a big part next season. I thought he was our most improved player along with Song as the season progressed. He lost some momentum after picking up a small injury in an International. He has the touch of a bulldozer but he does make the effort (much like Ade last season).

Be suprised to see a striker come in though tbh.

I am in the minority of Arsenal fans who rate Bendtner, but I'm not sure that he is quite ready to be one of our first choice strikers for next season, especially considering our fondness for Arsene's "tough away game" 4-5-1. I think another season with the same amount of playing time as he's had this season would do him the world of good. He gets in good scoring positions off the ball but I think he just needs a little more time so he can learn to be a bit more savvy in his decision making when he's on the ball.

If we sell Adebayor and don't get a replacement in the same mold it certainly won't be as crushing as if we don't get a centreback and a defensive midfielder, but it will be irritating in that it would be another instance of Arsenal losing quality and not replacing it.

[CandyBob]

Why do you reckon Wenger has been so hesitant to give Vela more game time?

In most games he has played, he has appeared a bit out of his depth. He gets a lot of hype and in the odd game he has looked the part. Mostly he has struggled though, especially against a solid Premiership defence.

[Mars]

He has looked mint in the Carling Cup games though - maybe that next step will take a little longer to come. If he can eventually chip top keepers like that then it's worth the wait.

[Straps]

He becomes AMAZING on Football Manager though. Wenger just needs to get his settings right.

[carlito]

Why do you reckon Wenger has been so hesitant to give Vela more game time?

I don't think he's ready physically. There's no doubt the boy's a wonderful talent but at the moment he seems to get knocked off the ball too easily.

Theo's learnt to use his body a lot more to shield the ball and as result I think his game has really come on. Part of the reason he has been able to do that, as well as experience, is simply that he's put on a load of muscle.

Hopefully the same will happen to Vela and when it does I suspect he will be a real handful.

[BlinkyBear]

The 13m is bollocks.

Going at least by last years accounts, we had over £90mill in cash in the club.

Clearly that doesn't mean 90mill to spend, but unless we've lost an absolute monster of cash on the Highbury Flats (which we haven't) then £13mill is a nonesense.

[Lucky]

A big part of the problem (sure it's been said loads before) is that these youngsters are being brought into a team full of kids and inexperiance. If Vela was given a chance in a team that was doing well, and had say an Henry, Vieira & Pires playing he would have more of a chance to shine. We're expecting players like Vela, Ramsey, and even Theo & to a certain extent even Cesc to come in and save us. Look at that Italian kid at utd, he was give a chance in a side with players like Giggs, Teves, Ronaldo & Carrick in. No pressure, not really any expectations, just go out there do your best and see if you can make a name for yourself.

If we had some experience in the side, I'm sure the expectations and pressure on these kids would be a whole lot less.

[Steve007]

So Hill-Wood thinks Wenger should not be criticised:

Expanding on last week's meeting, Hill-Wood praised Wenger's handling of the situation after expressing his dismay at the questions put to the Arsenal manager.

He added: "Frankly, some of the questions were quite disgraceful.

"There you have the most successful manager in our history and two or three of the shareholders made the most negative and somewhat hostile and sarcastic comments, which I think were completely out of order.

"I was very upset by the questions, I have to say. We, and he, kindly agreed to have this meeting and whether we have another one is a moot point.

"Arsene was very diplomatic and honest in his answers and deserves great credit for that. But I wouldn't have been anything like as polite if they had asked me."

To be honest, the questions the fans asked are what Hill-Wood should have been asking well over a year ago!

I really am starting to think the club will be better off in Kroenke's hands. We have to move forward!

[carlito]

I think the way in which some of the questions were asked were pretty outrageous.

There seems to be no gratitude for what he's done for the club. Silverware and unbeaten seasons aside, the name of Arsenal Football club is synonymous around the world with dazzling attacking football and that fills me with pride whenever I tell people I'm an Arsenal fan.

More incredibly in this period of success we have built an amazing new stadium on a sustainable debt model and still played in the Champions League season after season. That is an unbelievable achievement given that we aren't shackled to a billionaire benefactor, literally unbelievable. The reason for this, in addition to some pretty smart financial planning in terms of the structure of our debt, is thanks to Arsene Wenger's prudency in the transfer market. We have purchased players of the highest calibre for peanuts, we have sold players for enormous profits at times when the squad can pretty much cope with their departure and we have got an academy that is the envy of most of England.

Okay, we haven't won any silverware for a few seasons, but we've come pretty close. We are still an attractive enough club to bring in star players like Arshavin and Nasri. Even though it stings a bit at the time, it really isn't the end of the world that we were shown up a bit by a side like Man United who can afford to spent a good £50 mio on their two starting strikers alone.

There is a twat at the Emirates who spends half of every game chanting "Spend some money, Spend some money" with his thick mates. I wonder if there were similar chants going round Elland Road before they climbed up the league table and into the Champions League and I wonder if he was still there when he watched his side fail to get promoted from League One.

Perhaps Leeds is a comparison too far, but for a very similar example look at Valencia. They are probably a club very similar to us in terms of size and past successes and they are also in the process of building a flash new stadium to move into. They are fucked with debt. They are going to have to sell pretty much all of their best players and the construction of the Nou Mestella has been halted. What have they done in the past four or five seasons? Qualified for the UCL once and finished midtable in half of those seasons.

Coupled with the incredible success we have enjoyed over the past 13 years I think the future is very bright for Arsenal and for that I am grateful enough to Wenger to not take the piss even if I might disagree with a couple of his dealings or non-dealings in the transfer market.

[phresh]

It's not just the transfers though is it? Has anything changed behind the scenes to ensure success in the future? You do get the feeling that Wenger controls everything and that there has been little change in the clubs structure in the last 10 years. It's not just the money that has made United succesfull, it is the constant re-evaluation of what needs to be done to keep us succesfull. Changing personel, completely rewriting the youth training scheme and various other things have all happened at United recently which have aided our success as much as any 30 million pound striker.

Ferguson, Wenger and probably Benitez now Parry has gone, all have what are essentially Director of Football roles but you get the feeling Wenger needs to change things behind the scenes, youth alone will not freshen things up.

[carlito]

It's not just the transfers though is it? Has anything changed behind the scenes to ensure success in the future? You do get the feeling that Wenger controls everything and that there has been little change in the clubs structure in the last 10 years.

I don't know what you expect a manager to do. Should he really be concerned with the dealings of the club "behind the scenes" - probably not in the most part. I think he has done all that can be expected of him though. He's allowed a financially stable platform on which to build in the future, he has brought through some absolutely world class players who will play at the top level for years to come and beneath that he has nurtured a core of youth players who, if they have the dedication and luck, could go on to be just as impressive. I don't know what more you can ask.

I think with the acrimonious departure of David Dein, Wenger was forced to deal more with the meat and bones of transfers than he was used to, or should be expected to do. It was a function which Wenger should never have had to deal with, but that said, we probably did fail to bring in a few players we would have liked and perhaps lost a player we would have dearly loved to keep in Flamini. Hopefully with Gazidis as chief exec, that is a pressure which will not weigh on him so much and we will be a bit more successful at completing moves as perhaps has been augured by our signing of Arshavin which was a really difficult process but finished up with Arsenal getting a fantastic player at a pretty reasonable price.

It's not just the money that has made United succesfull, it is the constant re-evaluation of what needs to be done to keep us succesfull. Changing personel, completely rewriting the youth training scheme and various other things have all happened at United recently which have aided our success as much as any 30 million pound striker.

I'm inclined to disagree, lets take some rough transfer costs of your players.

Evra - £5.5mio

Rio Ferdinand - £33 mio

Vidic - £7mio

£45 mio odd for the backbone of your admittedly outstanding defence.

To help them out you've got your defensive midfielders:

Michael Carrick - £18mio

Owen Hargreaves - £17mio

£35 mio to protect the back four

I'd say that spending £80 on the defensive side of your team probably made more of a difference to the amount of goals you concede than the admittedly impressive contributions of the homegrown Jonny Evans, John O'Shea, Gary Neville and Wes Brown.

Going forward I think it's pretty similar.

Rooney - £26mio

Berbatov - £31mio

Ronaldo - £13mio (bargain)

Nani - £16mio

Anderson - £18 mio

Tevez - £20 mio - who really knows though?

£123 mio. You'd hope to buy goals with that - although I'm not discounting the impact of the old guard of Giggs and Scholes - but that is hardly something new that Ferguson has implimented.

Your recent youngsters have been mixed at best. Wellbeck, Possebon, Macheda and Evans all look good but I can't say that Eagles, Bellion or Richardson have impressed quite so much.

At the end of the day, success aside, you are a club in debt to the tune of £700 mio which means that inspite of your having the highest turnover of any club in the world all you can do is service the interest on that debt, none is actually paid off.

What that means long term I don't know, but one thing that you can be certain of is that if you do fall into uncertain times and your revenue decreases for whatever reason you are going to find yourself in very serious trouble unless someone with very, very deep pockets indeed comes to the rescue.

[Daley]

Perhaps Leeds is a comparison too far, but for a very similar example look at Valencia. They are probably a club very similar to us in terms of size and past successes and they are also in the process of building a flash new stadium to move into. They are fucked with debt. They are going to have to sell pretty much all of their best players and the construction of the Nou Mestella has been halted. What have they done in the past four or five seasons? Qualified for the UCL once and finished midtable in half of those seasons.

There was an article on F365 saying Valencia are half a billion euros in debt and as you say stadium work has been halted.

I am somewhere between how you and Steve feel. I am grateful to Wenger but I feel he should be doing just a bit more to keep us in the frame.

It all comes back to money. If we have none Wenger is a hero who has managed the impossible. If we have some can he please buy some players.