Arsenal

[Steve007]

After a few hours sleep I don't feel any better.

I am furious at Wenger. He threw away the FA Cup semi-final by resting players for the first game against United. It's backfired spectacularly because instead of being in the final of 1 or 2 cup competitions, we have been dumped out and have been made to look very, very stupid.

Wenger mugged the fans at Wembley and his lack of tactical awareness cost us badly yesterday. There should have been an immediate change to the formation after going 1-0 down as we had to score 3 at that stage to go through, but he left it deep into the second half before changing things around. As ever, Wenger did not have a plan B. No excuse for this - he was not prepared again.

Gibbs' error could have been avoided if the kid was wearing a pair of football boots. It's been proven time and time and time again that blades are crap, plus they cause injury to players ankles. Yet Wenger saturates the pitch with water before kick off and sends them out wearing moulded fucking studs and blades! A costly slip was always going to cost us a goal one day.

I can't think of any player that came out that game with any credit.

Almunia cemented his position as a hapless clown with that pathetic attempt to stop Ronaldo's free kick. How many other goalies get done from over 40 yards twice in a season? To be fair, he made 2 good saves later in the game, but they were bread & butter and any goalie should have been able to deal with them.

Toure & Djourou were let down by a very shaky Sagna and Gibbs was destroyed after his slip. Song had too much work to do against United's midfield and he was never going to get any help from anyone else as no one else could be bothered.

Cesc proved yet again that he is nothing more than average. Yes, he has the occational good game and yes occationally he will provide a killer pass but he just looks out his depth when facing a good team. I don't understand why he is so ananymous against the likes of United & Chelsea yet can shine for Spain? Something is wrong there. His departure is inevitable at some point in time and if he left this summer I really wouldn't be bothered.

Nasri was marked out the game, van Persie didn't look fit to me and Adebayor proved yet again that he is a lazy cunt.

Don't get me wrong, United were easily the better team and no Gooner can even pretend to think that we deserved to go through, but it angers me that we made it so easy for United.

So another trophyless season, another 4th place finish and another disappointing season. If Wenger can't see that the squad is crying out for strength & depth then he needs to be moved upstairs and someone else needs to come in with some new ideas, some tactics and some sort of idea on who to bring in to the club over the summer. If the club has no money then they should just tell the fans - it saves us getting out hopes up and getting so annoyed when everything goes tits up. But of course they won't ever do that, especially when they are desperate to sell season tickets.

[Dude Ranch]

I think the simple fact is that we've got no big game players. None. Well, one. Arshavin. But last night the likes of van Persie, Walcott, Cesc and Adebayor were absolutely terrible. I think Wenger takes much of the blame. You can't legislate for the odd poor performance but when our supposedly big players aren't turning up for the games that count Wenger must acknowledge it and move them out.

I've been saying this for years but it's too comfortable for everyone at the Club. The players are under no threat, the manager has cart blanche to do whatever he pleases and it's not working. I think I'd have to seriously look at bringing in a young and hungry junior coach ASAP. Someone dynamic with new ideas and a bit of urgency about him.

[Steve007]

I think the simple fact is that we've got no big game players. None. Well, one. Arshavin. But last night the likes of van Persie, Walcott, Cesc and Adebayor were absolutely terrible. I think Wenger takes much of the blame. You can't legislate for the odd poor performance but when our supposedly big players aren't turning up for the games that count Wenger must acknowledge it and move them out.

I've been saying this for years but it's too comfortable for everyone at the Club. The players are under no threat, the manager has cart blanche to do whatever he pleases and it's not working. I think I'd have to seriously look at bringing in a young and hungry junior coach ASAP. Someone dynamic with new ideas and a bit of urgency about him.

The likes of Bergkamp, Pires, Vieira, Gilberto, Seaman, Campbell & Henry have been replaced by kids and unproven young players. How can a team ever cope and expect to perform to the same standard? At the end of the day, Wenger's job is to bring success to the club. It's not to use the first team to experiment with kids and exciting prospects.

To get arses on seats next season, they simply have to spend otherwise the club will be further humiliated playing in front of a 3/4 full stadium each week. I continually here all the "new" fans saying they will not be renewing next season. I guess all those years they were on the waiting list while we were winning things at Highbury has been a bit of a disappointment when they finally get a season ticket at the new ground and have to watch Wenger's never-ending youth experiment each match.

[Lucas]

Epic truth

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head.

Oh, how it hurt when they showed Beckham and Flamini watching from a box. Almost as painful as ITV's commentary.

[Silent Runner]

Steve is right on the money. This is the biggest summer for Arsenal and Wenger in years. There’s no World or European Cup finals so the buying and selling should start sometime in June. AW has to ship out the wasters buy half a dozen proven players to give us any shout next season. Arshavin is a great start but he’s only a start.

[Steve007]

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head.

Oh, how it hurt when they showed Beckham and Flamini watching from a box. Almost as painful as ITV's commentary.

Before the game started, the stadium was buzzing. I've never heard such a noisy pre-match build-up at the new stadium. Even when the teams were announced, nearly every Gooner was screaming the players surnames at the top of their voices. I really thought we were going to be in for one hell of a game and if we scored the roof would have been lifted off the stadium. The stadium died after just 8 mins. That's hard to take.

I didn't realise Flamini was there last night. If he had any doubts beforehand, I bet he feels his move was justified now.

[phresh]

I think your problems are more to do with a lot of current first team players just not being good enough to match the teams higher than you. Arsene has nearly always built a team that has been greater than the sum of it's parts but unfortunately the sum of your parts has been gradually decreasing over the years. How many of your first team players would get into United/Chelsea/Liverpool first team?

Obviously Arsene has to take the blame for this, but i've said it quite a few times this season and that is you should shift Pat Rice on and get someone else in, before shifting the manager.

[Guest]

Cesc proved yet again that he is nothing more than average. Yes, he has the occational good game and yes occationally he will provide a killer pass but he just looks out his depth when facing a good team. I don't understand why he is so ananymous against the likes of United & Chelsea yet can shine for Spain? Something is wrong there. His departure is inevitable at some point in time and if he left this summer I really wouldn't be bothered.

And when he's your Captain and can't motivate his troops it's a problem. The true mettle of a leader is when the chips are down. Cesc just disappeared when this happened. Perhaps he'll improve - Gerrard used to do this when he was younger, but he's grown into far better consistency - especially when he/the team are doing badly.

Thing is I don't see Cesc as the same sort of player. He doesn't drive the team with his play and doesn't really have that inspirational air about him.

Personally I think you need a new Captain.

I think the simple fact is that we've got no big game players. None. Well, one. Arshavin. But last night the likes of van Persie, Walcott, Cesc and Adebayor were absolutely terrible. I think Wenger takes much of the blame. You can't legislate for the odd poor performance but when our supposedly big players aren't turning up for the games that count Wenger must acknowledge it and move them out.

True, what's happened to Walcott of late? He's seemed to be really poor especially against players who sit off him. Pace is fine but being a one trick pony at the highest level doesn't work.

Van Persie was very poor too, have his injuries hampered him?

[Dude Ranch]

Obviously Arsene has to take the blame for this, but i've said it quite a few times this season and that is you should shift Pat Rice on and get someone else in, before shifting the manager.

I do feel that we need someone new in to inject a bit of spark but I'm not sure blaming Pat Rice is fair. Most top teams have a number two who's there to act as a bridge, a fool guy almost, someone for the players to have a moan at and also a link to the past. Chelsea - Steve Clarke/Ray Wilkins, United - Mike Phelan, Liverpool - Sammy Lee. There does come a time for change but I think we should look at Wenger before we look at Pat Rice.

[Dude Ranch]

True, what's happened to Walcott of late? He's seemed to be really poor especially against players who sit off him. Pace is fine but being a one trick pony at the highest level doesn't work.

Van Persie was very poor too, have his injuries hampered him?

Walcott doesn't get brought into the game in the right areas IMO, we don't use him effectively. And when it's not happening he's unable to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. van Persie talks the talk and he is talented but when he gives it all this 'prove your ambition' and 'will he won't he sign a new deal' and then he fails to turn up at yet another big game I do start to think just fuck off then. Same with Adebayor who's the biggest of all the Big Time Charlies I've ever seen and can fuck off immediately.

[phresh]

I disagree. Uniteds recent success, and Ferguson has said as much before, had a lot to do with Quieroz coming in. I think people sometimes overstate their importance* but can you really see Pat Rice as being anything other than a 'Yes' man? Bring in someone young and determined to help Wenger and I think you'd be better off.

*When Brian Kidd left United and a lot of media were going on as if he was the primary reason for our success. Steve Mclaren comes in and we win the treble....

[Steve007]

I think your problems are more to do with a lot of current first team players just not being good enough to match the teams higher than you. Arsene has nearly always built a team that has been greater than the sum of it's parts but unfortunately the sum of your parts has been gradually decreasing over the years. How many of your first team players would get into United/Chelsea/Liverpool first team?

Obviously Arsene has to take the blame for this, but i've said it quite a few times this season and that is you should shift Pat Rice on and get someone else in, before shifting the manager.

We have some quality. Gallas has been my player of the season and we badly miss him at the back. He's been a rock since being stripped of the captaincy plus he chips in with some important goals and his experience is invaluable.

Arshavin looks like another Bergkamp - I can't wait to see how he performs next season. We need to build a team around him.

Cesc, Nasri, van Persie & Adebuyor are hit and miss. They are all overrated anyway as great players are consistent, but next season will be a big one for Nasri. Fans have given him some slack as all players need time to adjust - but next season will be make or break for him. But he needs players around him to help him out. van Persie and Adebuyor don't believe in making space for themselves and their work rate is shocking so when Nasri gives away the ball it's because he has no options.

I'm not sure moving Pat Rice on will help because he just does what he's told. I really don't know what he does anyway because Arsenal rarely train. Arsenal players spend more time being massaged and pampered than kicking a ball on the training pitches. It explains why our set-pieces are consistently rubbish. We must have more corners than most teams and look how many goals we get from them! Most corners end up in the goalies hands. Our free kicks are equally atrocious.

[Shoes]

We haven't got a captain. Arshavin?

We were all saying that we were a DM, and maybe a CB or two, away from an amazing team, but we're not, are we? We created, what, two chances? Is that three over two legs?

We can't seem to play against decent teams.

[Steve007]

We can't seem to play against decent teams.

We beat United and Chelsea. The difference was that we had Gallas in the team and the players were up for it.

Notice how heads drop the moment we concede a goal. Also notice how Wenger rarely got off his arse last night to give players instructions. He basically left a load of young lads to fend for themselves stuck in some mutated 4-5-1 set-up. Even after going 2 down. Brilliant.

[Peter Hitchens]

We can't seem to play against decent teams.

This isn't really true though, is it? This tie was an exception, for the last few years we've almost always played our best again the best teams. Even at our worst this season we managed to beat Man U and Chelsea in the league.

[jayboy]

You know I don't think its all bad, perhaps as fans we need to perhaps adjust our expectations.

We have secured fourth, and got to the semis of the FA Cup and the Champions League, which I think is pretty good. Admittedly the way we lost to Man Utd was disappointing, but with our resources getting to the semi is an acheivement in itself.

If you consider where we were before Christmas, I think we have done pretty well, and Arshavin was a masterstroke.

Still have to get rid of Van persie and Ade tho, and Pat Rice....Pat just always seems to just there win or lose.

[Shoes]

You're probably right. We did set off rather brightly. It's hard to judge seeing if we'd have score seeing as they scored so early. We just seem to play it around like arseholes, never creating anything. Arshavin can't be that good, can he? We only seem to play well when he's on the field. Is he a talisman or something? Inspires the confidence that Cesc doesn't?

[Shoes]

This isn't really true though, is it? This tie was an exception, for the last few years we've almost always played our best again the best teams. Even at our worst this season we managed to beat Man U and Chelsea in the league.

Yeah, I know. Earlier in the season we could beat big teams and not Hull. So I'm talking bollocks.

[Peter Hitchens]

I didn't realise Flamini was there last night. If he had any doubts beforehand, I bet he feels his move was justified now.

I don't really agree with this, it's getting cause and effect the wrong way round. If Flamini and and Hleb had stayed we would probably have been far more competetive this season. We had problems in other areas (losing Fabregas and Adebayor obviously cost us a lot this season, Gallas going mental didn't help) but Flamini leaving is probably the single biggest thing that's set us back from last season.

I mean, even in this specific game having Flamini on the pitch could have made a difference, he's exactly the sort of player who have got stuck in and kept fighting even when the game was lost. He could have been the new captain this season.

[hobo]

The build up to last nights game reminded me of the build up to an England match - a load of misplaced hot air and arrogance. From Wenger this is understandable, he has to appear positive but for the players who all season have proven again and again to everyone (including Wenger I hope) to simply not be as good as they think they are it's hard to take.

The mix of the team isn't working, the lack of quality in the spine of the team is evident and without that starting point the remaining mediocricy is really shown up in tough games.

If Arshavin's recent excellent performances (compared to the rest of the team) and the humbling last night didn't finally remove the reams of paper from the cracks that have built up over the 'unbeaten 21 league run etc' then Wenger is in big trouble.

Worst case senario is that Wenger states 'this team has learnt a lot and can only improve if we stick together'.

I'm hopeful he's finally realised (Well hopefully all year he's realised) that a lot of these players are just not good enough at the highest level (and some at Premiership level) but with some solid support and direction from the new executives he can rebuild a quailty team.

[FATEone]

Probably the wrong time to post this BEFORE the CL game, but hopefully now it will stir up some debate on the matter.

With Vela likely to make that last step to pushing for the first team on a regular next season, it may well be time for Theo to lead the line.

--------------------Almunia

Sagna-------Toure-------Gallas-------Clichy

---------------------Song

-----------Fabregas------Nasri

Van Persie/---------------------------Arshavin

Vela

---------------------Wallcott

Who would you have out and who IN, if you think you could get them in the summer?

That looks a pretty solid team to me, I know you guys want a CB and DM, and you're right at least for cover, but in all honesty I think a good keeper is top priority. I've seen some people saying recently he's getting there, but I don't see it. He has a really good game here and there, but looks shakey in a number of situations on a regular basis.

[FATEone]

Yes, let's put Theo up top for a huge match when he's been playing on the wing all season.

and has played as a striker his whole life until Wenger RIGHTLY put him wide, to improve his all round game. He has always had the intention of moving him back inside at some point. Also as I said it was probably the wrong time to post that, but I was actually talking about next season.

[Lucas]

Eh? did I Just lose a day?

He played as a striker in the fizzy pop league at the age of 16. Hardly a barometer to say he's ready to lead the line in the PL.

[Lucky]

Obviously gutted after last night, all the build up and expectation then it's all over after 10 minutes.

We were well beaten and over the two legs there's no doubt that Utd deserve to be in the final..........

..........but we started well last night, and Gibbs was just unlucky that he slipped. The 2nd goal was a bit harder to take as you shouldn't really get beaten from 40yds. Still not quite sure how it went in, Almunia dived for it, but he seemed to dive with his eyes closed, the ball just wasn't where he dived. Shit goal to concede and that was the end of the game. It's a shame we didn't even get to give it a shot, it was all over before it started.

Even if we did get through it would have just papered over the cracks.

Wenger really needs to have a good look at his team and his players. Adebayor is a lazy cunt, I've had enough of him and if we can get the sill money being talked about we should definitely take it. I'm running out of patience with RVP, he's just not consistent enough, plays a few good games then disappears for a month, or gets injured.

Theo isn't a winger, he should be given a go up front and then we'll decide if he's good enough or not. When M Owen burst on the scene with all his pace, he was played up front and not on the wing for a few years. I don't really get this playing on the wing bollocks.

We need to look at getting a top keeper, as Almunia has improved loads in the last couple of years but he's not a top drawer keeper, we all know that.

I feel sorry for Cesc, he only turned 22 the other day yet he's the one we look to to lead the team, set the goals up, chip in with a few himself. Basically we expect too much from him. How much would he improve if he had a minder like Flamini or someone influential like Alonso next to him? Song has improved loads but he isn't up to that standard yet.

We badly missed Gallas, and Clichy actually, yesterday.

Let's hope AW has learnt something from the Arshavin signing.

That we need to pay a few quid and get a few experienced players in, none of this 16 year olds that might be good in about 6 years after they've been played in the wrong position for a few years.

It's clear to see that we need a CB, CM, Keeper & shuffle the strikers a bit (1 or 2 out & maybe 1 in)

[FATEone]

Eh? did I Just lose a day?

He played as a striker in the fizzy pop league at the age of 16. Hardly a barometer to say he's ready to lead the line in the PL.

What on earth is that supposed to mean!? so Owen wasn't ready, or Rooney, or Torres, or Agbonlahor, or any other striker that broke through at an early age!? Wallcott was bought as a striker, he's been played on the wing to improve his ball control/retention, dribbling and decision making, not because he isn't good enough to be a CF!

The decision to play him wide is a good one Lucky LL, trust me mate. You'll see how good he is and how long he'll be good for. Henry started out wide and floated around the left when he was the main striker. Owen is a slightly different prospect, however, if Liverpool's system and squad would have allowed it at the time playing on the wing at the start of his career would have improved him even more I think. It gives players the tools to not just rely on their pace.

[The Fox]

Cesc proved yet again that he is nothing more than average. Yes, he has the occational good game and yes occationally he will provide a killer pass but he just looks out his depth when facing a good team. I don't understand why he is so ananymous against the likes of United & Chelsea yet can shine for Spain? Something is wrong there. His departure is inevitable at some point in time and if he left this summer I really wouldn't be bothered.

AFAIK he doesn't generally start for Spain. He's a fine player but he's not as good as Iniesta or Xavi and probably not Silva either so it's not really surprising.

I didn't realise Flamini was there last night. If he had any doubts beforehand, I bet he feels his move was justified now.

I dunno, I gather he hasn't played all that much for them, with Ambrosini apparently being the first choice in that position.

[Dude Ranch]

With Vela likely to make that last step to pushing for the first team on a regular next season

Do you think? He's just the same as the rest. He's alright, technically good but ultimately worthless against someone like United. How long do you wait?

Who would you have out and who IN, if you think you could get them in the summer?

To be brutally honest, I'd like us to keep Wilshere and probably Ramsey for their potential and obviously Arshavin. The rest I could genuinely let go if it was up to me cos when push comes to shove they fail miserably. If he keeps the current defense then he desperately needs a defensive coach. Whether that means Adams or someone else, I don't know. Against my better judgement I'd possibly get Adams for the defensive nouse and his legend status and Bergkamp as coach, with Wenger moving upstairs. I can't see us catching United, Liverpool or Chelsea as it stands, yesterday highlighted that for me. We've got potential whereas those Clubs buy ready made players. We always come up short. Five of ours might progress over three years but in the meantime the other Clubs will have more ready made players who are at least as good, with experience and with trophies.

and has played as a striker his whole life until Wenger RIGHTLY put him wide, to improve his all round game.

Yeah, and he's got worse. He's had, let's be honest, about four or five good games. It just isn't happening. He looks completely lost.

[Steve007]

I dunno, I gather he hasn't played all that much for them, with Ambrosini apparently being the first choice in that position.

I genuinely don't believe we will win the CL with Wenger in charge. I believe he's taken us as far as he can and whilst he's done a magnificent job, it could be time for a new man.

I mentioned it a few months ago, but rumours from inside the club are that Wenger's successor will be Dennis Bergkamp with Steve Bould as his number 2. It's always a danger bringing back a former hero as boss, but if other Dutch greats like van Basten, Rijkaard & Cruyff can go on to be top class coaches, I see no reason why Dennis couldn't.

[Daley]

For the first time ever I left before the final whistle yesterday.

Wenger is not going anywhere, not before he decides. None of the board have the balls to do it and are probably too distracted by the imminent cold war. Wenger will decide when, and probably who, replaces him.

To be honest if we have no money then he is doing us a favour by staying as nobody else would be able to keep us in the top four with peanuts. If we have money I wish he would fucking spend it. But I can't say I want him to leave.

[Steve007]

Wenger is not going anywhere, not before he decides. None of the board have the balls to do it and are probably too distracted by the imminent cold war. Wenger will decide when, and probably who, replaces him.

If Kroenke takes control this summer (very, very high chance) he might choose to install a new coach and give him some money. Or he might give Wenger a bit of a dressing down, give him some money and insist he uses it to improve the squad.

I think Kroenke taking over the club is a much better option than that greasy fat fuck. I also believe the majority of fans would be happy about it. Lets face it, an American owner hasn't done Man United & Villa any harm!!!