Arsenal

[SomeNaiveChump]

lol! You have played us 3 times in a row and drawn twice and lost once. I mean, what more do you want? How many times do you have to play use until this "deserved" win comes out?

I don't know, how many games in a row do you want your otherwise-defeated ass saved by a wrong penalty decision?

I think you'll find Liverpool proved that they were good enough to win over 2 legs. In performance AND result!

And I think you'll find that without that wrong penalty decision, Arsenal would have gone through.

To summarise: I am not a red or a gooner, I have every bit as much love for Liverpool as I do for Arsenal, but Liverpool got lucky. They won over two legs thanks to two bad penalty calls and to claim otherwise you'd have to be massively biased and pretty deluded. Saying they deserved it is downright laughable - with good officiating, they lost.

Winning a game in that fashion does not make you 'stronger' or Arsenal 'not good enough' - it means you were lucky.

[Shevchenko]

Seriously do Liverpool have every champions league ref in their pocket? They had a decision go for them in both legs against Inter and Arsenal. I think Chelsea will knock them out this time with the first leg being at Anfield.

[SPE]

I'm not even an Arsenal fan and I know that Wenger has had the clout to compete for more or less any player he wanted since last summer.

Didn't Arsenal top the list of richest clubs in the World last year, due to the phenomenal income they generate each game? Since moving to the Emitrates, including TV money, they make around £180m every home league match. Wenger has had the buying power to match anyone. He just chooses not to. He rejected buying Babel from Ajax as he felt £10m was too much, even though they make that much in 5 minutes of play!

Anyway, as a neutral, that was a great match. Certainly a penalty, albeit one that could easily not been given. Babal was tugged from just out of the area, which was enough for him to be off balance when Toure knocked into him. It definitely wasn't a dive. It's difficult to say the best team lost, as Arsenal wasted the first 30 minutes of the 2nd half when they should have pressed ever harder for another goal.

[Takizawa]

Come on guys, be fair to Liverpool, they had a lot of top performances over both legs. Sami Hyypia was absolutely outstanding tonight, as was Skrtel alongside him. Arsenal? Well they had Senderos playing, is that Liverpools fault? Also Gallas was terrible and you had an unfit out of practice Gilberto to bring on in place of Flamini, is that Liverpools fault? Liverpool had Babel on the bench who came on and frightened the life out of Arsenal, made one and scored one.

I'm quite fed up of the Liverpool bashing that goes on just cos they don't play Arsenal style football, which at times is stunning, but you also have to defend like lions, which Arsenal didn't do tonight.

[Dude Ranch]

Gutted but the writing was on the wall. Bad decisions, yes. Bare bones squad, yes. We were mentally and physically shattered and still could have won it. However, we're a team that constantly conspires to fuck ourselves over by giving away soft goals and until that stops we'll win nothing. I'm not a fan of how Liverpool play. It's dreary and negative for the most part but I think we need a bit of that to compliment the flair and skill. I was thinking last night, I wonder what the result would be if these teams swapped managers for a season?

I think we did well all things considered. Deserved to go through probably but the fact is we lost. Before the first match against Liverpool my dad asked me how many points out of the hypothetical twelve available (Liverpool 9, United 3) we'd get and I admit that I said 'two'. Unfortunately, I think that's gonna come true .

[Daley]

I'm gutted. Don't want to say too much, still sore from the result and dont wan't to say something rash, but we need big things in the summer. I am sick of being the poor man of the top four. No. More. Excuses.

[SeanR]

Man Utd get a lot of luck, obv

<cough>Cristiano Ronaldo</cough>

[shock33]

Didn't Arsenal top the list of richest clubs in the World last year, due to the phenomenal income they generate each game? Since moving to the Emitrates, including TV money, they make around £180m every home league match. Wenger has had the buying power to match anyone. He just chooses not to. He rejected buying Babel from Ajax as he felt £10m was too much, even though they make that much in 5 minutes of play!

Anyway, as a neutral, that was a great match. Certainly a penalty, albeit one that could easily not been given. Babal was tugged from just out of the area, which was enough for him to be off balance when Toure knocked into him. It definitely wasn't a dive. It's difficult to say the best team lost, as Arsenal wasted the first 30 minutes of the 2nd half when they should have pressed ever harder for another goal.

£180 million! Are you sure?

[Daley]

£180 million! Are you sure?

I think it is very likely there is meant to be a decimal place between the 1 and the 8. £1.8 million is possible. £180 million is roughly our income for the whole year I think.

[Dude Ranch]

I think it is very likely there is meant to be a decimal place between the 1 and the 8. £1.8 million is possible. £180 million is roughly our income for the whole year I think.

Given our recent 'clout' in the transfer market it's highly likely that it's meant to be ONE POUND EIGHTY.

[Daley]

Given our recent 'clout' in the transfer market it's highly likely that it's meant to be ONE POUND EIGHTY.

I know you are messing but here are some facts to make us all angry:

...the successful staging of the inaugural Emirates Cup pre-season tournament which was the major factor behind the increase in gate and match day revenue to £41.1 million (from 8 Premier League, 3 Champions League, 1 Carling Cup and the Emirates Cup) (2006 - £38.0 million from 7 Premier League, 4 Champions League and 1 international friendly).

£41.1m / 16 (if you count the Emirates cup as 4 extra games even though it is over two days) = £2.6m revenue per game.

Profits on disposal of player registrations at £19.6 million (2006 - £12.2 million)

The Group's cash balances at 30 November 2007 amounted to £69.1 million

£70m cash. No debt is needed to buy players, we have cash. Our own money. I know it is a business and I don't expect them to blow it all and we have a stadium to pay for but people won't put up with this shit forever.

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?...0222070000PEE75

[rjpageuk]

I don't think I'm being a sore loser. Well, obviously I'm sore and a loser, but...

If it was the other way round, if we'd got through like that, I think I'd still agree that it was lucky.

I'd still be delighted, of course, and I'd still be proud of the players for their effort, but I'd be thinking "Shit, we'll have to play better than that if we want to go any further. We can't expect to be that lucky every time."

Like the FA cup final a few years ago... Man U outplayed us, we were poor, they should have won comfortably but we won on penalties. Obviously I was still glad we'd won the FA cup but deep down I knew the better team lost.

I think even the most blind Liverpool fan will admit they are jealous of the way Arsenal can pass the ball around and keep possession and you showed us that for the first 20-30 mins, however after that Liverpool were the dominant force.

I think comparisons with the 2005 FA Cup Final are pretty silly. Arsenal didnt have a shot on target or a corner until the 97th minute of that game, last night Liverpool dominated shots both on and off target and possession figures were even all match.

Unlucky Arsenal, it is a shame we both couldnt go through as we have had the toughest draws up to this point and no one deserved to lose last night.

[Silent Runner]

Totally shattered but some good will come out of last night. We should see a lot of the dead wood shipped out; we all know who needs to get their P45s during the summer and there’s no way the boss can’t break out the cheque book.

Oh, and Theo. That run convinced me he’s going to be an absolute star next year.

I don’t want to come across as bitter but I’m fairly sick of this nonsense about bad refereeing decisions balancing out over the course of a season. Looking at the recent games and some of the decisions that have gone against us; the 2 bad penalty calls against Birmingham, the disallowed goal against ‘Boro, ‘Boros goal in the same match and the 2 Liverpool penalty decisions. Have we had any lucky penalties or dodgy goals given our way this year?

[Graham S]

You have my sympathies, Arsenal fans. At times during the tie I thought you were going to hammer us in a humiliating fashion.

[larrydavidsanger]

I know you've all been talking about the penalty decision and as I've already stated, had it been at the Emirates I'm 99% sure it wouldn't have been given to us but what I think has really hurt Arsenal has been the soft goals. Kuyt's in the first round could have easily been stopped if one of those defenders had had the guts to make a challenge on Gerrard in the box, Senderos practically let Hyppia have a free header and Torres a free shot last night. If you'd asked me which of our players I'd want to have a free header and a free shot it'd be those two. Had those three goals not gone in it wouldn't have mattered about contentious penalties

[Miner Willy]

Don't expect it's much consolation to you boys, but that was some incredible football for the first half hour, all things considered. Nice to see Diaby score: really like him. Great first touch on the goal too I thought.

Initially I wondered why Wenger didn't start with Eboue at right back and Theo on the wing, thus enabling Toure to push into the middle - but having said that, I thought Toure (especially) & Eboue both played pretty well.

Edit - I saw earlier in the thread people talking about a new keeper for next season, but I think Almunia's been excellent this season. I don't think he'll ever be truly world class (and yes, that's kind of the point I guess), but he seems very reliable, his temparament is good (look how assured he was last night, especially compared with Reina), and he kicks well. I think only James & Friedel have been better in the Premier League this season, and they're too old to buy. Guess Wenger will look abroad, but I'm just saying I think Almunia deserves credit for this season.

[Peter Hitchens]

I know you've all been talking about the penalty decision and as I've already stated, had it been at the Emirates I'm 99% sure it wouldn't have been given to us but what I think has really hurt Arsenal has been the soft goals. Kuyt's in the first round could have easily been stopped if one of those defenders had had the guts to make a challenge on Gerrard in the box, Senderos practically let Hyppia have a free header and Torres a free shot last night. If you'd asked me which of our players I'd want to have a free header and a free shot it'd be those two. Had those three goals not gone in it wouldn't have mattered about contentious penalties

Very true. I know its easy to say watching, but the moment Torres got the ball in the box it was so obvious he would try to turn and shoot. There were two players who could have been throwing themselves in to stop him shooting but they hesitated.

I'd argue the goal in the first leg was pretty much unstoppable, though. It was just great play from Gerrard and had anyone tried to challenge him it probably would've been a penalty.

[KRP]

Oh man, I'm still really gutted... This has been one the best and worse seasons I've ever experienced as an Arsenal fan.

[Daley]

Very true. I know its easy to say watching, but the moment Torres got the ball in the box it was so obvious he would try to turn and shoot. There were two players who could have been throwing themselves in to stop him shooting but they hesitated.

I'd argue the goal in the first leg was pretty much unstoppable, though. It was just great play from Gerrard and had anyone tried to challenge him it probably would've been a penalty.

Probably? The ref would have just given the goal.

[Lucky]

Absolutely fucking gutted!

We can go round in circles with all this shit for ever, Liverpool were lucky, the penalty we should have had, the penalty they shouldn't have had blah blah blah blah blah.

The bottom line has to be that, yes we have been unlucky with injuries, I know every club has injuries but I'm talking about RVP, Rosicky, Sagna and Eduardo but ultimately it's come down to us not having a big enough squad. By big enough squad I'm talking about about having 20+ top drawer players, not having Senderos or Hoyte as cover, not having Eboue as a starter and not being able to rest Cesc, Flamini, Adebayor, Hleb for even a single game.

The truth of the matter is we need to spend big in the summer and we need to have these 20 players fighting for places because if we are serious about winning the PL and CL we'll need a big big squad. There are enough games, injuries and suspensions throughout a season to keep everyone happy.

We need about 5 or 6 players, real players not 15 year olds who might be good in 8 years.

Man utd rest Rooney and play Teves, they rest Anderson and play Scholes, they rest Giggs and play Nani. Chelsea rest Essien and play Ballack, they rest Cole and play Bridge, they rest Carvalho and play Alex, they rest Drogba for fuck's sake and play Anelka or at worst Schevchenko.

We have an injury to Sagna and have to play Toure out of position and rely on Senderos. Rosicky gets stuck in the treatment room and we play Diaby, a CM at LM. Flamini gets injured and we have to bring on Gilberto who we all know is simply past it, not the player he was last season.

I'm Wenger's biggest fan, but please for fuck sake spend this £70 mill we keep hearing about on some established experienced players and lets seriously challenge for the PL and CL next season, not just do an experiment to see how far this young team can go before it runs out of steam.

So so dissapointed.

[toythatkills]

There are enough games, injuries and suspensions throughout a season to keep everyone happy.*

*Except Diarra

[SPE]

£180 million! Are you sure?

I fucked up! Getting up at 4:30am to watch football obviously messed my thinking up, as they obviously don't make that much per game.

That £180m was their income over the entire 2006/2007 season, not per match. And the BBC states it was £200.8m anyway, so my memory was doubley wrong.

[Lucky]

*Except Diarra

He's a cunt though.

The thing that pisses me off even more about him is that he is the sort of player I'm talking about. He would have played a big part in Europe and the run in for the PL had he stuck around.

Never mind though, there are loads of players about as long as you are prepared to pay the money that is. (which we don't seem prepared to do)

[Dude Ranch]

they rest Drogba for fuck's sake and play Anelka or at worst Schevchenko.

I said at the time, we possibly should've bought Anelka. I think he could have won it for us last night and got us points to keep us in the Prem race.

Rosicky gets stuck in the treatment room and we play Diaby, a CM at LM.

Rosicky will have to go. In fairness to Diaby, he got better as the season went on despite being played out of position. I'd have left him on last night.

[KRP]

I don't know if I'd 'go back' for Anelka, he is a class act but I don't think he'd be too popular. We should have brought on Walcott for Flamini, and moved diaby into centre mid I thought.

[Dude Ranch]

Who's still at the Club from Anelka's first spell? I think he looks like a changed man. The fans would've been won over as soon as he notched. He's probably a better forward than anything we had fit last night. Experienced too. I'd sooner have had him leading the line last night than Adebayor who's completely gone of the boil and is always offside. Granted though, he did finish off Walcott's goal . Jesus, that was some run. I can't think of another player who could've done that. I think it was different even to anything Ronaldo does. So fucking quick.

EDIT: Bit unfair on Adebayor there, thinking about it. He did work really hard, as always.

[Miner Willy]

Jesus, that was some run. I can't think of another player who could've done that. I think it was different even to anything Ronaldo does. So fucking quick.

It struck me as being reminiscent of Owen Vs Argentina.

[SeanR]

Jesus, that was some run. I can't think of another player who could've done that. I think it was different even to anything Ronaldo does. So fucking quick.

EDIT: Bit unfair on Adebayor there, thinking about it. He did work really hard, as always.

the only player I could compare the run to was Maradonnas second goal back in 86. You know the one

for sheer pace I mean. (although the argies also had 3 in the box waiting...)

Adebayor though, what about when he trapped that over the top route one high ball with his foot, just plucked it out of the air man... and was then ruled offside.

[Cosmic_Guru]

Not been as sick at a result since the champs league final frankly. Again the post match analysis is dominated by the referee's decisions but what gets my goat most is the FIRST goal last night. Up to that time we had been in total control - Liverpool were not at the races frankly and even the famous crowd were starting to moan and groan a la Emirates. Who knows what would have happened if we had held out to half time. At least make the oppostion work for their goals for chrissakes. I like Senderos but he has to go and the whole back 4 need to be trained as a unit (step on down Bouldy surely). Far too often this season and last we have conceded stupid sloppy goals either as the first goal at home, or after going ahead away in big games (Chelsea twice). We simply cannot close a game out to save our lives.

[Dude Ranch]

It's all about the mentality and, as I said a few days back, the fact that everyone at the Club is way too comfortable. We hide behind the football we play, which is undoubtedly the best in Europe. But put it this way, we play great football and win nothing. Liverpool play boring football and nearly always go further than us in Europe. United play good football but also have the mentality and stubbornness to grind out results. Successful teams can mix the candy football with a desire to win at any cost. That's what we lack and under Wenger I can't see it ever changing.

The real question is, has Wenger taken us as far as he can? How many times can he build a new side without winning anything? When will he wake up to the defensive frailties and bet someone in (yes, possibly Bould, maybe Adams) to fucking sort it out?