Arsenal

[Sinister]

it was a return to me being hoarse (Sp?) with shouting shoot ! . Great game and Theo must start at Utd .

[KRP]

Did someone just rate my profile with 'one star'!! Cheeky gits!

I'd like to see a big centre back, a pacey winger and maybe another defensive midfielder.

[Peter Hitchens]

The new stadium played a part in this. We'll reap the benefits financially sooner rather than later, but the bottom line is that he hasn't had the money Fergie, Rafa and Jose had to spend. Hopefully he'll get a blank chequebook this summer.

I think this has been true for the last 4-5 years but not last summer; I'm sure he already had the option to spend bigger last summer, and again in January. We've still made a big improvement over last year against the odds, but it does seem odd that he didn't make a couple more signings. Even just one more player (i.e. a good winger) could've made the difference and won us the league.

[tyler]

I felt sorry for a few of the Arsenal players tonight, Cesc has taken a bit of an emotional battering these last few weeks. You can see just how much it means to him. I do think it's a case of lacking a little bit of experience throughout the team though (and Senderos). The penalty was possibly harsh looking at the replay but at full speed it looked a cert so you can hardly quibble at the ref this time.

Hopefully you can go and beat United on Sunday to make the title race interesting.

[hub2]

Yeah, but if you do beat utd make sure you win the league... don't soften it up for Chelsea!

[Peter Hitchens]

Yeah, but if you do beat utd make sure you win the league... don't soften it up for Chelsea!

I'd be surprised if we do now, to be honest. We'll be so mentally and physically drained, and probably without Flamini. You never know though, if Van Persie's back, and maybe Wenger will give Walcott a chance.

[KRP]

United look like an unstoppable force at the moment, to be honest I'd be happy with a draw/

[Vulgar Monkey]

Wasn't giving it my full attention, but it looked a hell of a lot more engaging than the Chelsea game. There was more of a battle, the other game seemed a little sedate.

Frankly, I'd be happy to spend the whole 90 minutes watching the Walcott goal again and again.

[toythatkills]

... maybe Wenger will give Walcott a chance.

It'd be nice, but it's obviously difficult for him to drop a player of Eboue's incredible worth and talent.

<snigger>

[Rog]

The new stadium played a part in this. We'll reap the benefits financially sooner rather than later, but the bottom line is that he hasn't had the money Fergie, Rafa and Jose had to spend. Hopefully he'll get a blank chequebook this summer. If we don't sign a good 5-6 quality players we won't win anything next year either. It's a squad game these days and we haven't got one big enough to cope. We have a team, but the other players are just not good enough to step in and fill in for Cesc, Flamini, RVP, Toure etc.

I think this has been true for the last 4-5 years but not last summer; I'm sure he already had the option to spend bigger last summer, and again in January. We've still made a big improvement over last year against the odds, but it does seem odd that he didn't make a couple more signings. Even just one more player (i.e. a good winger) could've made the difference and won us the league.

I'm not even an Arsenal fan and I know that Wenger has had the clout to compete for more or less any player he wanted since last summer. The simple fact is that he choses not to invest in any established star - and by established I don't even mean players that are clearly the best in their class in Europe. United, Liverpool, even next tier teams like Tottenham & Villa are ready to pay £10-15M for players that have already displayed ability in the top leagues in Europe but haven't even necessarily achieved anything - Anderson, Nani, Torres, Babel, Malouda, Berbatov, Young etc.

It's a well worn theory, but Wenger only seems to want young players that he can develop the way he wants. It's admirable, and may well have got Arsenal into the position they're in in terms of helping towards the stadium etc, but the european and especially the EPL has moved on from 3-4 years ago. If you aren't prepared to invest in the best or most promising players in the world each year then you're going to get left behind.

[Peter Hitchens]

It'd be nice, but it's obviously difficult for him to drop a player of Eboue's incredible worth and talent.

<snigger>

To be fair, Eboue did alright today. And I don't think he's done that badly most of the season. I agree he's not good enough to be a first choice right winger in a team that wants to challenge for the title, and he's also a diving, fouling idiot. BUT... most of time he's done a solid job on the right wing, he just never seems to get the crucial final ball/goal.

I agree Walcott should replace him now, but for most of the season every time Walcott's played he's lacked composure and would usually just run into trouble and waste possession. I think in the first half of the season Eboue certainly looked more reliable there, he may not have the end product but he's competent enough to keep the ball moving, which is what our style of play relies on so much.

[Rog]

It'd be nice, but it's obviously difficult for him to drop a player of Eboue's incredible worth and talent.

<snigger>

? Eboue's only been moved into midfield this season as far as I can remember. For at least a season before that, he was one of the best full backs in the league. Although he's a spiteful, fouling cunt.

[Peter Hitchens]

It's a well worn theory, but Wenger only seems to want young players that he can develop the way he wants. It's admirable, and may well have got Arsenal into the position they're in in terms of helping towards the stadium etc, but the european and especially the EPL has moved on from 3-4 year ago. If you aren't prepared to invest in the best or most promising players in the world each year then you're going to get left behind.

Yeah, for example, there's no doubting Eduardo was a good buy (and maybe we'd still be in the title race if he'd stayed fit) but think what we could've done this season with Torres. That could be the difference between winning nothing and winning everything.

And Babel, although he's not been anything like such an instant hit - he certainly would've been a great option to have on the wings once Rosicky got stuck in the treatment room.

I'm fairly sure we could've spent that kind of money.

[Peter Hitchens]

? Eboue's only been moved into midfield this season as far as I can remember. For at least a season before that, he was one of the best full backs in the league. Although he's a spiteful, fouling cunt.

He was a decent full back, fast and powerful going forward, but a bit defensively unreliable. Having Sagna at right back has made our defence far more solid this season. Now Sagna... he IS one of the best full backs in the league. He's been close to perfect all season.

[Guest]

To be fair, Eboue did alright today. And I don't think he's done that badly most of the season. I agree he's not good enough to be a first choice right winger in a team that wants to challenge for the title...

*snip*

Buy Kuyt!

[SomeNaiveChump]

Arsenal haven't been 'left behind' at all.

They've been fucked out of the competition by categorically wrong refereeing decisions, just like they've been fucked out of the premiership. It wasn't a penalty and the one Arsenal weren't given in the first leg was. Liverpool are very, very lucky because quite simply, Arsenal deserved to go through full stop.

[MDK]

I'm not even an Arsenal fan and I know that Wenger has had the clout to compete for more or less any player he wanted since last summer. The simple fact is that he choses not to invest in any established star - and by established I don't even mean players that are clearly the best in their class in Europe. United, Liverpool, even next tier teams like Tottenham & Villa are ready to pay £10-15M for players that have already displayed ability in the top leagues in Europe but haven't even necessarily achieved anything - Anderson, Nani, Torres, Babel, Malouda, Berbatov, Young etc.

It's a well worn theory, but Wenger only seems to want young players that he can develop the way he wants. It's admirable, and may well have got Arsenal into the position they're in in terms of helping towards the stadium etc, but the european and especially the EPL has moved on from 3-4 years ago. If you aren't prepared to invest in the best or most promising players in the world each year then you're going to get left behind.

After the first leg they discussed this on RTE and came to the conclusion that Wenger doesn't trust himself enough in the transfer market enough to spend big, not after some of his big signings in the past.

[dizogg]

Arsenal haven't been 'left behind' at all.

They've been fucked out of the competition by categorically wrong refereeing decisions, just like they've been fucked out of the premiership. It wasn't a penalty and the one Arsenal weren't given in the first leg was.

Arsenal are great and everything, play some amazing football. Considering the money they've spent it's phenomenal. But theres only so many competitions you can get "fucked out of" before you have to question whether it's just because you aren't quite good enough.

[Guest]

I think Arse have done amazing considering their resources - what they've spent etc.

I'm convinced Wenger thinks he's playing Champ Man. Every season he says to the board "Non, non, I shall do eeet with the meeenemal of resouzourzes? How you say - leetle wonga".

[SomeNaiveChump]

Considering they would be comfortably top of the table were it not for four or five ridiculous refereeing decisions costing them points in games they actually won recently, I don't think whether they're good enough can even come into question. It's not even remotely down to lack of quality that they dropped those points.

[g wings]

I'm convinced Wenger thinks he's playing Champ Man. Every season he says to the board "Non, non, I shall do eeet with the meeenemal of resouzourzes? How you say - leetle wonga".

LOL. Now that brightened my evening a little.

[dizogg]

Considering they would be comfortably top of the table were it not for four or five ridiculous refereeing decisions costing them games they actually easily won recently, I don't think that can even come into question.

But every team gets bad decisions against them during a season. Sometimes it can cost them cups, sure. But Arsenal haven't won a cup for a while. It's not a conspiracy.

It hurts for everyone when decisions go against you, but it does happen to everyone. Look at the Liverpool thread after we lost to Man Utd, there was all sorts of shit going around.

[Peter Hitchens]

Arsenal are great and everything, play some amazing football. Considering the money they've spent it's phenomenal. But theres only so many competitions you can get "fucked out of" before you have to question whether it's just because you aren't quite good enough.

Certainly our squad has been shown up to be too thin in the last few weeks... we've had some bad luck in recent weeks, but barring a miraculous turnaround, we've shown that we are NOT good enough to win the Premiership.

But I think its hard to deny we were unlucky over these two legs. We ARE good enough to beat Liverpool over two legs, we've just proved it. Yes we showed tiredness and our squad was lacking, but we were still better than Liverpool, we were still "fucked out of it". Sure if we had a bigger squad and hadn't made defensive errors we would've won comfortably and not been in a position to be "fucked out of it", but that doesn't change the fact that we were.

[Peter Hitchens]

But every team gets bad decisions against them during a season. Sometimes it can cost them cups, sure. But Arsenal haven't won a cup for a while. It's not a conspiracy.

No, but it's still possible that last season and the season before, we weren't good enough, and this season we were good enough but were "fucked out of it".

The idea that decisions always even themselves out is just not true. I'm not saying this has happened to Arsenal this season - it would be impossible to say because I'm sure we've had lucky decisions ourselves as well, and obviously I haven't noted down every single dubious decision for/against us over the whole season. BUT my point is - there's no logic at all to the idea that luck evens out - it's perfectly plausible that some teams will have more luck than others over a season. In fact, it's almost certain. It would be statistically miraculous if every team genuinely was equally lucky. If you're tossing a coin and it's been heads 100 times, it's no more likely to be tails the next time.

[KRP]

Certainly every team gets decisions but ours have cost us more. Still, that's football for you.

[Guest]

Man Utd get a lot of luck, obv

[dizogg]

I'm not saying that luck evens out, just that you go into football knowing that luck can plays a part and you can't go 3 or 4 years saying "We didn't win because of luck" and expect people to care or be sympathetic. Most teams that win things, its hard to say that they got lucky. Most competitions require you to win quite a lot of matches to the point where you have to say they deserved it.

[dizogg]

We ARE good enough to beat Liverpool over two legs, we've just proved it.

lol! You have played us 3 times in a row and drawn twice and lost once. I mean, what more do you want? How many times do you have to play use until this "deserved" win comes out? It's bullshit. You can play all the nice passes you want, if you don't get the ball in the net more times than the other team you're not gonna win. And the referees weren't atrocious, referees ALWAYS make mistakes, its not possible for them to be perfect. Sorry Arsenal didn't win but you didn't win. You don't have a right to win because you played nice passes and looked better.

[Guest]

I think you'll find Liverpool proved that they were good enough to win over 2 legs. In performance AND result!

Arsenal should have done better at home. End of.

[Peter Hitchens]

I don't think I'm being a sore loser. Well, obviously I'm sore and a loser, but...

If it was the other way round, if we'd got through like that, I think I'd still agree that it was lucky.

I'd still be delighted, of course, and I'd still be proud of the players for their effort, but I'd be thinking "Shit, we'll have to play better than that if we want to go any further. We can't expect to be that lucky every time."

Like the FA cup final a few years ago... Man U outplayed us, we were poor, they should have won comfortably but we won on penalties. Obviously I was still glad we'd won the FA cup but deep down I knew the better team lost.