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Just got this through email - 'Wengers View, The Official Managers Email'

As for the rest of the season, the targets in front of us are very clear. They are the Premier League and the Champions League. We are not in a position where we have to make a choice. We just have balanced fixtures now and we need to pick ourselves up quickly because we have a massive game on Wednesday.

Of course we are back at Old Trafford in April for the Premier League game and you will see a different Arsenal team then. We will be in a different shape when our injuries clear up and I hope the pitch will be in a different shape as well.

Another dig about the pitch... so to speak.

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There were two teams playing on that pitch on Saturday.

Edit - actually, fuck that. How can anyone blame a comprehensive 4-0 defeat on a bad pitch? Arsenal didn't even show up, it was a spineless, half-hearted performance and the players just didn't want it, you could see from the get go in the way they set themselves about the match. There was no effort, no drive. I have great admiration for Arsenal and I've warmed to Wenger in recent years, but he's coming across as an idiot here. He's never been able to take a defeat on the chin.

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There were two teams playing on that pitch on Saturday.

Edit - actually, fuck that. How can anyone blame a comprehensive 4-0 defeat on a bad pitch? Arsenal didn't even show up, it was a spineless, half-hearted performance and the players just didn't want it, you could see from the get go in the way they set themselves about the match. There was no effort, no drive. I have great admiration for Arsenal and I've warmed to Wenger in recent years, but he's coming across as an idiot here. He's never been able to take a defeat on the chin.

Yes, there were two teams. Interesting that they scored from crosses, ie getting it off the floor from the start. You're right of course, the pitch can't be totally blamed but are you saying it was right and Arsene's comments weren't even the tiniest bit fair enough? Do you think United made the best of their pitch for our visit? Should Old Trafford host teams on a pitch like that? And I'm more comfy that he blames the pitch and not our crippling injury list which is by far the easier excuse and one no sane person could argue.

As for not taking a defeat on the chin, see also every successful manager ever. Arsene gets a bad press but it's no worse than Ferguson or Mourinho do after most defeats. I think it's a bit of an easy dig at the bloke along with 'I didn't see it' which he has said plenty but it's more than likely true. Ever sat in the front row at a match and seen anything clear cut? I wouldn't expect him to not defend his team when he hasn't had sight of an incident.

Regarding "spineless, half-hearted performance and the players just didn't want it" I agree :) . Sad to see but it was obvious that the two bigger prizes are the priority. Say Helb and Cesc went at it and got injured. And Adebayor. We're fucked as it is. It still stuck in my throat and you are correct but I half understand it. And I feel pretty low typing that.

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Yes, there were two teams. Interesting that they scored from crosses, ie getting it off the floor from the start. You're right of course, the pitch can't be totally blamed but are you saying it was right and Arsene's comments weren't even the tiniest bit fair enough? Do you think United made the best of their pitch for our visit?

Your fundimental issue there was not having a plan b, ie. take to the air if required, get some space down the wings and knock some crosses in.

As for not taking a defeat on the chin, see also every successful manager ever.

I can think of several - Ramsey, Bobby Robson, Clough, Shankley (discounting when they got stuffed 5-0 by Ajax), Paisley, Kendal, Busby, Jock Stein, Birkenshaw, Nicholson and many more, everyone a winner, all a class act.

As for "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser, etc..." I can think of many sportsmen who are as succesful in their field as footballers and their managers and take defeat on the chin without don't look for excuses beyond their own performance - it's a problem with the modern day game - watch ESPN and "the dead good match" for all the 80's games, muddy pitches, big games and none of the hysterics or constant moaning at the ref. The tackles are harder and they act like men not a bunch of kids.

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Your fundimental issue there was not having a plan b, ie. take to the air if required, get some space down the wings and knock some crosses in.

That's another way of looking at it, depending on where you're coming from and who you support :angry: . You don't go to plan B from the start though, do you? What you described (crosses etc.) didn't look like United's plan B to me. They played to the pitch, a pitch I'm betting United didn't bust a gut to get into A1 condition. And this United's pitch we're talking about, not Wimbledon's. And we did have a plan B, to not give a fuck :( . For the record I've not got really got any complaints about the game, aside from being really disappointed with us.

Your comments about managers are out of date, so I won't reply to that. It's not the 80s now mate :P .

And phresh, yes I agree. But I think it's obvious how it impacts our game more than anyone else's. I don't see the problem with Wenger stating that it's awful because it is. When you see how much they earn and spend as a Club a decent pitch should be a given. Arsene could have waited to mention it but given the circumstances of the game he probably wasn't in a great mood :D .

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At least all AC's goalies are broken or something. :angry:

I read a report which described saturday's game as the day Wenger "Carlinged" the FA cup, but I think there was enough quality on the pitch to come away with a better result (even if that was just conceeding less goals) than we did. Our first choice centrebacks were playing and they let in 4 goals ffs!

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They played to the pitch, a pitch I'm betting United didn't bust a gut to get into A1 condition.

Personally. for myself Utd have as much of a passing game as anyone and play at the same speed as anyone.

Wenger should have turned up, took one look at what he was going to be playing on and had something in mind on how to approach the match. It's the north of England in the middle of winter and you are not going to get a bowling green to play on. If he was suprised he's probably the sort of bloke who goes to Scotland and is suprised it rains, the kind of man who needs rescuing off Ben Nevis is shorts and sandals in november ;-)

Whatever he felt about the numbers of his squad and who's available and his priorities, he owed it to those who traveled 4 hours up the m6 and then 4 hours back to arrive home at maybe midnight if lucky to have some form of plan and to put up some form of fight and not just a throwing of the toys out of the pram in a display of petulance.

Your comments about managers are out of date, so I won't reply to that. It's not the 80s now mate :angry: .

Fine, I'll name a load of top class sportsmen and women that are all as succesful, are still playing and don't act half as petulant and childish. Woods, Federa and just about any world class boxer you could name with maybe 2-3 exceptions who disrespect their opponent but DO respect the fans who pay their money (Mayweather).

The issue to my mind is football as a sport, the players on the pitch and the crowd off it. No one behaves with much class nowadays, you get the game you deserve and thats what we've got.

I don't think I'm out of date but if having the values those managers espoused makes me out of date then I'm proud to be yesterdays man, worlds not changed that much, just football and what we demand of it.

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Personally. for myself Utd have as much of a passing game as anyone and play at the same speed as anyone.

Wenger should have turned up, took one look at what he was going to be playing on and had something in mind on how to approach the match. It's the north of England in the middle of winter and you are not going to get a bowling green to play on. If he was suprised he's probably the sort of bloke who goes to Scotland and is suprised it rains, the kind of man who needs rescuing off Ben Nevis is shorts and sandals in november ;-)

Whatever he felt about the numbers of his squad and who's available and his priorities, he owed it to those who traveled 4 hours up the m6 and then 4 hours back to arrive home at maybe midnight if lucky to have some form of plan and to put up some form of fight and not just a throwing of the toys out of the pram in a display of petulance.

Fine, I'll name a load of top class sportsmen and women that are all as succesful, are still playing and don't act half as petulant and childish. Woods, Federa and just about any world class boxer you could name with maybe 2-3 exceptions who disrespect their opponent but DO respect the fans who pay their money (Mayweather).

The issue to my mind is football as a sport, the players on the pitch and the crowd off it. No one behaves with much class nowadays, you get the game you deserve and thats what we've got.

I don't think I'm out of date but if having the values those managers espoused makes me out of date then I'm proud to be yesterdays man, worlds not changed that much, just football and what we demand of it.

This

All of it.

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Hate to be pedantic but its hardly the 'middle of winter' and that water was put on the pitch by some fucktard ground staff, not a monsoon over Manchester. If we can manage a 'bowling green' then so can Man U. I've seen first hand the technology available to groundsmen so don't give me that balls.

Still beside the point I guess, we deserved to lose :unsure:.

Out of my mind now, looking forward to the next few days. I hope that all of the UK teams get through what with all of this discussion going on about the 'EPL' at the moment.

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Fine, I'll name a load of top class sportsmen and women that are all as succesful, are still playing and don't act half as petulant and childish. Woods, Federa and just about any world class boxer you could name with maybe 2-3 exceptions who disrespect their opponent but DO respect the fans who pay their money (Mayweather).

The issue to my mind is football as a sport, the players on the pitch and the crowd off it. No one behaves with much class nowadays, you get the game you deserve and thats what we've got.

I don't think I'm out of date but if having the values those managers espoused makes me out of date then I'm proud to be yesterdays man, worlds not changed that much, just football and what we demand of it.

Your first paragraph isn't comparing eggs with eggs in any way. Arsene Wenger and Tiger Woods aren't in remotely similar positions, general industry aside.

Your second para makes me wonder why you came in here and had a go at Wenger and you didn't go into the football thread and say it generally. I agree with you but, on this one, you're hopelessly out of date and a bit naive if you expect the kind of reactions we'd both ideally like to see. It can't be expected to happen anymore apart from the odd saintly figure and mid table also rans.

Anyway, it's over now. Tomorrow is, literally, another day and we've got bigger fish to fry :unsure: .

And wiener said a similar thing to what I'd have said about your other points.

It's nearly always enjoyable chatting with you about football 213, don't get me wrong on anything.

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i'm alot more confident going into the game tomo knowing those players are back and fit. Sagna and Clichy showed how important they are to us on sat. I'm suprised and happy that Denilson and Walcott are back aswell i didn't think they would be. Now Rosicky and RVP hurry up! :unsure:

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possible starting 11 tonight?

4-4-2

------Lehmann

Sagna--Toure--Gallas--Clichy

Eboue--Cesc--Flamini--Hleb

----Adebayor---Eduardo

or in a 4-5-1 ish with Hleb behind Adebayor?

Eboue--Cesc--Flamini--Eduardo

-----------Hleb

--------Adebayor

I hope we go with 4-4-2 as Eduardo is wasted on the left. Also, they like playing 5 in midfield and not giving the opposition any space so 442 would force them to come out a bit (as long as we are playing well) which they don't like to do. I'm sure they would quite happily let us have the ball and play in front of them. They could then defend all day long as they like doing.

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