Arsenal

[The Fox]

2 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

Fair play to Brighton, I'd say. They don't need the money desperately after selling players in the summer so why shouldn't they keep a player who willingly signed the contract he's on? He should be grateful to them. 

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't keep him, just that there is an element of big picture risk if you end up with a reputation as a difficult club to move away from, and that it also seems risky from a player morale perspective to not reward Caicedo in any way if he does stay, given that he very clearly wants to leave and is on a very modest salary by PL standards that the league leaders are probably offering to quadruple.

 

2 hours ago, Zael said:

I do think there's a difference in letting a player go halfway through the season when you have 2 days to find a replacement, compared to a much more scheduled transfer over the summer window. Brighton can argue that they do let their players move on to bigger clubs if they prove themselves, just not halfway through a season with no time to actually spend the money gained.

 

This is a fair point of course, but also I would be amazed if Brighton haven't already got replacements for Caicedo, Mac Allister, Mitoma and Ferguson in mind (or already have them on their books). Whether they could be signed at short notice in January I don't know, but if not then Arsenal have Sambi and Patino on their books who could potentially be loaned as short-term CM cover (depending on if Patino can be recalled).

[DirkCrisis]

From a Brighton fan perspective, we do need him because we don't have a replacement yet. Also he's signed until 2025 with an option for a 1 year extension which we will trigger so Arsenal or Chelsea or whoever are looking at buying out a contract which runs until Summer 26.

 

Also bear in mind he was fine until he signed with the Liz Truss of football management companies at the beginning of this week which, coincidentally, is when all the noise started. I think he's being badly advised on how to manage a move which is going to sour his existing relationships.

 

The club's stance has always been that we'll let any player go if the timing and price are right. Arguably the timing isn't right but may well be in the summer. I don't know what the valuation is, but Arsenal met the valuations for Trossard and White so assuming they do it again I imagine we might let him go. 

 

 

 

[Mike1812]

Maybe they have their replacement?

 

[The Fox]

I guess the thing with Brighton's model is that they are buying these promising players from overseas markets that fit the way they play, and offering them first team PL football and the exposure that brings, and that is the edge they have over bigger teams where these guys would worry about stagnating. But those types of player are not necessarily going to be ready to contribute immediately - I think Caicedo was on the books for quite a while before he ever played for the first team for instance. So the way they like to operate in the market makes it much harder to sign some oven-ready Caicedo replacement who can slot in immediately.

[Art Vandelay]

I always sort of tune out when people say why don't clubs like Man Utd and Arsenal just go shopping where Brighton do or grab some lads from League 1. You're basically paying someone else to do that work for you in an environment where that's possible because you can afford it. City aren't buying Mahrez from Le Havre and sticking him on the left wing the next Saturday. 

[Gabe]

I think Caicedo is showing that he's still very much a kid in all of this and, as noted above, I think the advice he is getting is poor.

 

He's played 26 games (I think) and given that he has basically said he always intended to use Brighton as a stepping-stone, I don't think he can really complain that the club aren't going to bend over backwards to see him on his way on his terms. 

 

I don't think the club sticking to their guns here will have any reputational or otherwise impact down the line, either. Why would it? The player wants out at the 11th hour, how does that give the club time to find a suitable replacement? Even if they had longer-term targets in mind, why would or should they have to pay a January premium for it and have to have them acclimatise to the PL? 

[The Fox]

7 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I always sort of tune out when people say why don't clubs like Man Utd and Arsenal just go shopping where Brighton do or grab some lads from League 1. You're basically paying someone else to do that work for you in an environment where that's possible because you can afford it. City aren't buying Mahrez from Le Havre and sticking him on the left wing the next Saturday. 

 

Exactly, it's not about Brighton necessarily recruiting 'better' than Arsenal - they are just operating at different levels of the market.

 

It's not like the big clubs didn't know who Caicedo was before Brighton signed him, of course they did - it's just that going to a club like Brighton made more sense for his development because they could offer him a much better adaptation process.

[The Fox]

37 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I think Caicedo is showing that he's still very much a kid in all of this and, as noted above, I think the advice he is getting is poor.

 

See I just don't understand this line of thinking at all. He's got the potential to get a PL winners medal, play CL football next season, and probably multiply his salary by 3 or 4x. In what sense is him trying to force that move through a result of 'poor advice'?

[Art Vandelay]

Mitoma is another one pundits and journos talk about as if he was recruited from outer space. He'd played two full seasons in the J-League, at every youth level for Japan and scored loads of goals whilst doing it. I don't think it does Brighton enough credit to just suggest their scouting is really good when they put together the best plan for his development and he picked them over probably dozens of other clubs. And that happens a lot too. It ultimately makes the league a lot less interesting when every club who recruits well is broken down for parts, but then we had about 20 years of that to put up with so bugger everyone else, I hope we sign him.

[The Fox]

Yeah and just look at Palace with Eze and Olise for domestic examples of promising players that all the big boys will have known about. As you say, it's not really about these clubs finding hidden gems a lot of the time - it's convincing those players that their club is the best step for their career, which Brighton have obviously excelled at in recent years. And I think the main difference with Brighton compared to a lot of other mid-tier PL clubs is the style of football they play and the profile of player they subsequently look to recruit.

[Gotters]

Was thinking about this walking the dog and we shouldn’t worry about this signing, bigger forces are clearly at play here assembling a squad of Biblical proportions.

 

We have a Benjamin, a Gabriel, an Aaron, a Thomas and a Jesus already. Adding a Moises is almost divine intervention at this point.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Aaron Ramsdale has the look of an Old Testament peasant too. 

[Gabe]

1 hour ago, The Fox said:

 

See I just don't understand this line of thinking at all. He's got the potential to get a PL winners medal, play CL football next season, and probably multiply his salary by 3 or 4x. In what sense is him trying to force that move through a result of 'poor advice'?

No, you're right - 'poor advice' is wrong, because professionally the move makes a lot of sense. It does still feel a bit off though, with the instagram post about his family trying to, what, engender some kind of sympathy or hardship for somebody on £15k a week? And player-power is usually bemoaned on here, isn't it? I recall Kane took a lot of stick for trying to force his move last year (and I have more sympathy for that situation). Caicedo has plenty of time on his side though and, if he continues to play at a high level for the rest of the season, he'll have a pick of suitors in the summer - though of course this might be his best chance of a PL medal, who knows?

 

Regardless, even if him trying to force a move was agreed by everybody as the right thing to do, I have no problem with Brighton sitting tight and doing nothing other other than issuing their firm 'Nope.' Caicedo signed a long-term contract (regardless of whether there was an understanding on both sides that it was just a stepping-stone) and, like the Harry Kane situation, has to accept that sometimes a club is actually going to hold a player to it. Clearly Brighton will cash-in at some point before that contract ends though.

 

I guess I would have some sympathy with Caicedo if had gone as far as he could with the club and had given years of service, but he's played 26 PL games - he's achieved nothing with Brighton as yet. If he stays until the end of the season and they secure a European spot, then he could leave knowing he helped accomplish something historic and I guess Brighton fans would be (more) okay with that scenario? Obviously he just wants out though, so that wouldn't appear to matter to him and nor should it I suppose if he has bigger ambitions in the game.

[Larsen B]

If Arsenal wanted the fans to turn around on Sambi, linking us to Jorginho is a very shrewd move.

[Art Vandelay]

Jorginho under any other circumstances would be amazing as he was a brilliant footballer, but the idea of another aged Chelsea pensioner rocking up makes me want to die.

[The Fox]

Hope everyone’s ready for a nice big huff of Jorginho copium tomorrow.

[Art Vandelay]

I don’t get why we’d do this deal and make Chelsea’s life easier though. Get another over-the-hill player on mega wages off their books whilst they continue on their funny money financial doping spending spree, and also splash them a few quid they can put towards the lad we’re after. Get the main target or sack the idea off altogether.

[The Fox]

If Caicedo is going nowhere and it’s a loan then I get it, but we shouldn’t be signing him on a permanent basis.

[wev]

Arsenal and former Chelsea players never really works out, so no thanks to Jorghino

[Gotters]

Chelsea paid Napoli £50m for Jorghino, so with 6m left on contract not much left to amortise, if they get the fee they want of £10-20m for him that is mostly a profit gain for the financial year, and will help fully offset year 1 book cost for somebody like Mudryk (on long deal he will show at c£10m a year)

 

Cute accounting but only helps this years ffp, have to keep repeating the trick to balance player amortisation against player sales/income.

 

That said he’s a good ball retainer and circulator and could suit our style well, wouldn’t pay much of a fee for him but for wages as a short term deal makes sense while we pursue younger longer term targets.

[Art Vandelay]

He’s a free agent in the summer so it’s a permanent deal only apparently. Old Fabrizio reckons it’s £20m and his £220k wages, presumably on a 2.5 year contract. To my mind that’s an expensive deal compared to Caicedo as we’re just shovelling money into a retirement fund to have someone to potentially cover about 18 games until we get who we actually want in the summer. The fans never warm to these old Chelsea players too, and for good reason as they’ve mostly been shite.

[The Fox]

Obviously he lacks athleticism to defend large amounts of space, but has plenty of other positive attributes and is quite clearly an upgrade on Sambi and Elneny as a backup No6.
 

I still absolutely hate him though.

[Gotters]

£20m is madness and should be enough to walk away, but Chelsea know we want/need a body and got a lot on the line in second half of season.

 

I’d walk at that and take our chances but being more rational if it helps win the league (unlikely) it’s money well spent.

[Larsen B]

Arsenal Fans (rightly): "how the hell do Chelsea sell their deadwood for millions while we pay players to leave?!"

 

Arsenal: *pays £20m to Chelsea for a player leaving in 6 months*

 

I've come to the bargaining stage with this but I do not believe, based on all evidence, that we can handle big transfers and we won't get Rice in the summer

 

Obviously very happy to be wrong but we seemingly can only get players who Mikel has gassed up or whose agents are in Edu's ear.

 

We're first by a distance yet we've made the same signings we would make if we were 8th in the league.

[Silent Runner]

Ornstein says Caicedo isn't happening. So it's Willian pt2 instead. Jorg is a step-up from Lokonga all right but it doesn't really inspire.

[Gotters]

We’re usually the wrong side of a deal at the stage we’re at, offloading tat when you have to is never a strong position and neither is buying when in need.

 

Teams always know this and hard to get round it til we have a fuller squad and more options ourselves

[Art Vandelay]

It is pretty disappointing that we wanted two players of immense potential who could solve problems in the squad for the next 10 years and end up with two lads who are really unlikely to get 80 appearances between them. Edu and his team deserve credit for the job they've done, but he's got a lot to prove when it comes to moving players on and getting that next level of signing through the door. Basically, watch Chelsea butter Brighton up this afternoon and get done in 2 hours what it's taken us 10 days to not do. 

[Larsen B]

 

Can tell I'm cooked because £12m and a 1.5 + 1 year contract now seems like an alright deal.

 

Gaspar has done it again!

[Art Vandelay]

This can fuck right off. 

[The Fox]

I'm honestly fine with it for £12m on a 1.5yr deal. He's miles better than Elneny and Sambi.

 

We have to get Rice in the summer though, that's for sure.