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30 minutes ago, Majora said:

Since Ferguson left, United have finished 7th, 4th, 5th and are currently in 5th with an outside shot at 4th. We've also won a league cup and an FA Cup. That's after spending hundreds of millions of pounds, breaking transfer records, going through 3 managers and playing some downright fucking rotten football for much of that time. I think a lot of United fans would be pretty happy with a sustained run of Champions League qualification and the odd cup at the moment, which is a sign of how quickly your ambitions can change. Not competing in the Champions League regularly would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

 

I just can't help but feel there's a good chance that Arsenal will be looking back at this time as the halycon years once Wenger has gone. Massive figures like Wenger and Fergie are great for stability but the transitions from them can be extremely painful.

 

 

Or, a new manager will sort the obvious blind spots Wenger has and Arsenal will be better than they are currently. Yes change from huge personalities like Fergie and Wenger can be hard, but its not 1, 2 or even 5 seasons of a downward trend its 10 and it seems to be  getting worse. So whats to hold on to? 

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16 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

*retrospective, entitled, whiny bullshit*

 

No offence Steve, bu... actually, fuck that. 

 

I bet you had a real shit-eating grin on your face typing that load of bollocks didn't you? You know what they say, a stopped clock is right at least twice a day and that's what your entitled bullshit has done-happened to come true because you've moaned for long enough that Wenger had to go. You didn't predict it, you didn't foresee it, and despite how your post reads, you're not the only one to have said it before now. But fuck me, you seem to take so much pleasure from it that it's difficult not to imagine that you're the kind of petty arsehole who takes an A4 piece of paper into the ground after you and your mates have stood on the tiny roundabout outside the club shop shouting "Wexit". 

 

Hope you're enjoying this and good luck in being just as fucking delirious when everything has gone to even greater shit next year. 

1 hour ago, McFly said:

Man Utd won the FA Cup with Van Gaal didnt they? Thats more than enough success according to some Arsenal fans

You're confusing one FA cup win for Man Utd with Arsenal consistently finishing in the top 4, qualifying for the last 16 of the CL, winning two FA Cups and spending significantly less than Man Utd in the same period.

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49 minutes ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

Can we all fuck off with this fawning over Chelsea? If that's the Club and people admire, go support them. Their model is successful yes, but fuck that noise. 

 

You seem content with mediocrity and failure.  You are part of the problem.

 

Chelsea do whatever it takes to win.  It doesn't always work season after season, but their mistakes are only due to the constant pressure that they put themselves under to perform and compete at the highest level.  They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  Chelsea have a manager that from a different era to that dinosaur Wenger who uses that pressure to inspire his players.  You have to admire what they are trying to do and that is the model to copy If you want to compete (great manager + tactics + investing in high calibre players = results). 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Arsenal model doesn't work.  Whatever that model is.

 

Can't you see that the top managers in the league spend 90 mins on the touchline going mad trying to get the best out of their team?  Klopp, Guardiola & Conte are constantly barking instructions at their players and making adjustments.  We have a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins and a number 2 who only speaks when he gets permission from Wenger.  When things are going wrong why is he not trying to actually do his job and get the players to perform, particularly when there isn't a single leader on the pitch?  It's fucking desperately sad to watch them mope around and misplace pass after pass without any sort of meaningful game plan or system.

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2 hours ago, Majora said:

Be careful what you wish for, Arsenal fans.

 

Signed, a Man Utd fan.

 

Fergie left when he knew his team were in dire need of a rebuild.  He left on a high and it was always going to be impossible to follow in his footsteps.  Moyes was a terrible choice and his methods are not all that different from Wenger's.  Both Moyes & Wenger are belong in the past.

LVG was a great manager but he was just too fucking weird and different to what Man United's players were used to so it didn't really work out as he essentially was trying to do what he always does, play the 1990's Ajax way, regardless of whether or not he has suitable players for that system.  I don't think he did a bad job for you, but he was always a stop-gap replacement until they got the man they really wanted.

 

I hear a lot of Man United fans who are unhappy with Jose, but you're only a decent goalscorer and defender away from having a really solid team.  Put it this way, your problems are a hell of a lot easier to fix than ours.  

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Give Jose a couple more years and he'll alienate half the United team, board and fanbase before spitting his toys out of his pram and running into the arms of the next big club who will have him for a few seasons.

 

Maybe Arsenal should adopt the Chelsea way, buy the best players in the world and have them on high wages. It sounds so simple only a genius could have thought of it. I'll ask you your opinion on that method of success when Arsenal go bankrupt.

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Best players in the world? Hardly. They haven't bought anybody that the other big clubs couldn't have gone in for. They paid £90m combined for Kante, Costa and Hazard, the same price United paid for Pogba. It's not rocket science. Chelsea rarely get their signings wrong. They've spent a lot of money, but so have the two Manchester clubs. It's pretty rich to complain. They've just done it far better.

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3 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  

This isn't really true though, can't think of anyone Wenger signed who at the time was world class.  In fact the only players who really fit the "world class" description are Ozil and Sanchez

3 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

Fergie left when he knew his team were in dire need of a rebuild.  He left on a high and it was always going to be impossible to follow in his footsteps.    

I'd be more inclined to believe Fergies reason for leaving being his wife's sister dying and the team was only in dire need of a rebuild because he left. I have no doubt he would have at least one more title if he would have stayed.  The problem was he didn't give the club enough time to find a suitable replacement (and David Gill also leaving), the same problem Arsenal will face if Wenger leaves this summer.  

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3 hours ago, tonymg said:

This isn't really true though, can't think of anyone Wenger signed who at the time was world class.  In fact the only players who really fit the "world class" description are Ozil and Sanchez

 

 

Not a fan of Thierry Henry then?

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Aren't a large number of people who are sitting on the fence or leaning for him to go doing so precisely because they respect what he has done for the club and want it to end with dignity?

 

Obviously you have your rabid ones on either side but the Arsenal fans I've spoken to have a sort of unspoken resignation that although they don't want him to leave, nothing will change until he does.

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I think that's right.

 

I think he's been incredible. I also think it's time for change (squad and management). It's likely to mean harder times ahead but it needs to happen at some stage and dragging it out just delays the inevitable and slowly chips away at his legacy.

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I think it's worth directly addressing the poison that is "passion" and "spirit" and "leadership" that English football fans seem to automatically equate with success. In actual real business, 70s style command and control management has long been seen as utterly counter-productive. Managing through fear and shouting often has short term success, but rarely works longer term. I actually respect Wenger's management style. He clearly trusts his professional players to do a job, adapt to situations they find themselves in and find a way to win. Regardless of what other managers think, apart from a tactical switch at half time and subs, a manager's role in the actual game isn't that massive. The most successful teams in the world don't have someone going mental 24/7, so demanding it as a minimum so you can claim they have "passion" is just mouthbreathing anglofootball bollocks of the highest order. Leicester won the premier league at a canter last year with a manager who was so chilled he was basically horizontal. Arsenal's problems aren't because their players are all shit, don't care and need yelled at. Their problem is, that year after year there has been one or two teams slightly better than them. Which if you're a half full sort of person suggests that year after year Wenger has produced a team better than about 90% of the rest of the league. The league positions don't lie. You can whine and moan about having shit seasons, but what does that mean Everton is having this year then? They still seem to be below you in the league. Are the points you're accruing magically appearing or being granted by fairies? 

 

The point remains. What is it you want to change? You want Pulis in to give the players a bollocking so they start displaying "spirit"? Good luck with that. Let's see how that goes. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

You seem content with mediocrity and failure.  You are part of the problem.

 

Chelsea do whatever it takes to win.  It doesn't always work season after season, but their mistakes are only due to the constant pressure that they put themselves under to perform and compete at the highest level.  They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  Chelsea have a manager that from a different era to that dinosaur Wenger who uses that pressure to inspire his players.  You have to admire what they are trying to do and that is the model to copy If you want to compete (great manager + tactics + investing in high calibre players = results). 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Arsenal model doesn't work.  Whatever that model is.

 

Can't you see that the top managers in the league spend 90 mins on the touchline going mad trying to get the best out of their team?  Klopp, Guardiola & Conte are constantly barking instructions at their players and making adjustments.  We have a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins and a number 2 who only speaks when he gets permission from Wenger.  When things are going wrong why is he not trying to actually do his job and get the players to perform, particularly when there isn't a single leader on the pitch?  It's fucking desperately sad to watch them mope around and misplace pass after pass without any sort of meaningful game plan or system.

 

 

I was going to reply to this but then I saw Cappuccino Kid did and covered everything I wanted to. 

 

Instead I'll say this; fuck off with your "part of the problem" you sanctimonious, fustian ingrate. Just because I don't turn up to game with a piece of paper that says "Wenger Out" just in case we lose, doesn't mean that I'm happy with the situation.

In terms of other managers, it's interesting to see that you believe that someone screaming at a team has any direct correlation with success. I think it says volumes about the kind of person you are and how you think things should be expressed and achieved. 

 

Also; have some fucking respect: for fellow supporters, for yourself and mostly importantly, for Wenger. He might "be past it" and it's undoubtedly time for him to go, but talking about him the way that you do not only underlines just how little grace and decency you have, but also demonstrates why large swathes of the supporters can't even begin to countenance protesting in the way that you and the rest of the mob do. I'll say again, if you want to scream obscenities at a manager like an entitled kid, go to Stamford Bridge-you'll fit right in. 

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7 hours ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

But it's possible to put pressure on the club to change whilst still showing some respect for what Wenger has given the club, and some basic human decency. Once the more vocal members of the "Wenger out" crowd realise that, perhaps they'll start getting somewhere.

 

They're not interested in that, those AFTV bellends are just interested in their five minutes of fame.

 

There's no chance these people will stop complaining when Wenger goes. They'll find something to moan about, no doubt. An awful lot of them seem to use the football - an event that is supposed to be recreational enjoyment - as a lightning rod for all their frustrations.

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8 hours ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

But "that dinosaur Wenger"? Who is just "a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins"? That is bollocks on so many levels. Firstly, this is a man who has devoted 20 years of his life to the club. Not because it's an easy payday, but because he loves the club, and is desperate to do right by it. He's overseen the most successful period in our history, and is now a victim of the high standards he himself set. He's seen us through a stadium move and an accompanying period of tight finances whilst remaining competitive in a way that no other club has yet managed.

 

Absolute bullshit.  It's just a job to him, one he enjoys I might add and one he has been paid handsomely to do without any real significant pressure until the last 2 years.

 

He oversaw by far the greatest era in the history of the club but that was a long, long time ago.  He's past it, he's tactics (what they are of them) do not work, his backroom team is full of fucking 'yes' men and he's not the man to lead us forward.

 

Sadly from what I've heard it's a certainty that he will be in charge next season and we'll keep making noise and protesting until he's gone.

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3 hours ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

 

I was going to reply to this but then I saw Cappuccino Kid did and covered everything I wanted to. 

 

Instead I'll say this; fuck off with your "part of the problem" you sanctimonious, fustian ingrate. Just because I don't turn up to game with a piece of paper that says "Wenger Out" just in case we lose, doesn't mean that I'm happy with the situation.

In terms of other managers, it's interesting to see that you believe that someone screaming at a team has any direct correlation with success. I think it says volumes about the kind of person you are and how you think things should be expressed and achieved. 

 

Also; have some fucking respect: for fellow supporters, for yourself and mostly importantly, for Wenger. He might "be past it" and it's undoubtedly time for him to go, but talking about him the way that you do not only underlines just how little grace and decency you have, but also demonstrates why large swathes of the supporters can't even begin to countenance protesting in the way that you and the rest of the mob do. I'll say again, if you want to scream obscenities at a manager like an entitled kid, go to Stamford Bridge-you'll fit right in. 

 

Have respect for Wenger?  Have you seen the contempt he expresses in press conferences when the heat is really on him?  To him, the fans are a nuisance.  He is so stubborn and oblivious to what is going on around him.  My understanding and grace was eroded away a long time ago out of pure frustration and anger at what he and the board are doing to our club.

 

The only way we are going to change things is by getting vocal and hope it has some sort of effect.

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1 hour ago, Broken Richie said:

Steve, as a relative neutral, you come across as a total entitled bellend here. 

 

Read what I've said.  I am not asking for anything other than a club that is going in the right direction.  I'm not demanding we win the league or champions league, I just want the club to fucking compete.

 

Have you any idea what it feels like to watch your team rarely give 100%?  Most of the players look like they can't be arsed.  If I go to the effort of going up to Sunderland, down to Southampton or to Europe for a UCL game, I expect the players to damn well give 100%.  I can take them giving 100% and losing, it happens.  But for many of the team to not give their all is inexcusable.  That's what really irks the true fans who invest a lot of time and money into following their team.  It's why so many of us are angry and pissed off.

 

Regarding entitlement, I could feel entitled to something for my £1500 season ticket (many thousands of angry fans do).  For that money I could get a season ticket at Bayern Munich, Bor Dortmund & Juventus & still have some cash left over.  If the club want to charge fans 5 or 6 times the season ticket costs of Bayern Munich, give them some of the quality Bayern have on the pitch, as well as the results they get.  Anything else is just taking the piss quite frankly, but Gazidis is all about making as much profit as possible.  He runs it as a business, not a football club.

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2 hours ago, g wings said:

 

 

Truthfully, what makes you think that? 

 

If he really cared, he wouldn't be performing as badly as he has been doing.  If he cared he'd be desperately trying to find new systems that suite the players instead of sending them out with exactly the same plan as the previous match.  There is never really any sort of gameplay.  The team rarely adapt to the opposition.  The team will be set-up the same way against the likes of Chelsea as it was against Sutton & Lincoln.  There's no genius about this, it's just piss poor management.  In recent months and especially since we got knocked out of Europe the players look terrified everytime they are on the ball.  Look how some of the players panic and knock the ball sideways as they have no confidence to go forward as they are worried about losing the ball and the crowd getting on their back.  It's even more noticeable at home games.

 

The Bayern tie is a classic example of how Wenger gets things so wrong.  We got battered in the first leg as everyone knows.  The old Wenger would have watched that game many times on video and devised a system to try and stop their biggest threats in the second leg.  Instead we play exactly the same system and got thumped 5-0 or whatever it was (could have been 9 or 10).  Even when the game was well beyond the team you could sense Bayern would get a load more goals and the flood gates opened in the second leg.  What did Wenger do?  Nothing.  Just told the team to carry on playing a system that wasn't working.  He doesn't give a shit. 

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10 hours ago, Steve007 said:

Anything else is just taking the piss quite frankly, but Gazidis is all about making as much profit as possible.  He runs it as a business, not a football club.

 

Literally every football league club does this.

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36 minutes ago, The Fox said:

 

Literally every football league club does this.

 

No, other clubs look to make money and invest it into the football club.  We have 100's of millions stockpiled doing absolutely nothing as you well know and as our chief exec regularly likes to boast about and remind everyone.  Then we squabble over pennies when trying to negotiate a transfer deal whereas other clubs just go and get their business done as efficiently & covertly as possible.  It's fucking embarrassing.

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