Arsenal

[Steve007]

6 hours ago, cavalcade said:

You've finished in the top four for years, have recently won two back to back FA Cups. Last year you came second in the league.

 

"Spectacularly mismanaged" is ludicrous. Laughable. 

 

 

 

This just proves how right I am.  Were you hoping for an open top bus parade for finishing some distance from Leicester?  We were fucking awful last season after we dropped off around February AGAIN. 

 

Every top pundit is saying the same as fans like me, just like every top journalist.  Even Henry Winter is now calling for Wenger's head.

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/29327/10833346/jamie-carraghers-passionate-analysis-of-arsenal

 

Not often I agree with Carragher, but he's right.  

 

56 minutes ago, Timmo said:

Imagine Steve007 with a bitter grimace on his face as Arsenal lift their 2nd FA Cup in as many seasons. 'This isn't my narrative', he thinks. He tells his wife he needs some alone time and he spends an unhappy hour removing the word "trophyless" from his rant templates.

 

I bet he wore a grin to bed last night. 

 

FA Cup wins have just been papering over the cracks and bought that idiot Wenger more time.  The team has still been going backwards and the squad still getting weaker.  We are more distant from the top teams now than ever before.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Because any idiot in charge of any shite team can win back to back FA cups...

[McFly]

Is the FA Cup the best you can hope for? If you look at the list of recent cup winners there are teams that won cups and got relegated so is it really that hard to do? 

[Steve007]

55 minutes ago, Oh Danny Boy said:

Because any idiot in charge of any shite team can win back to back FA cups...

 

Would you swap the FA Cup wins for a team that looked like it could challenge for major honours domestically & in Europe?  It's fans like you who are the problem for accepting this mediocrity.  Do you even go to games?  I'm baffled at your mentality.  Everyone is going mad and people like you are still dining out on cup wins a few years ago, which masked a terrible season in the league & Europe for two seasons in a row.

[JDubYes]

5 hours ago, Plissken said:

Got to have some sympathy for that POV.  The problems are the same year after year and Arsenal are doomed to a peculiar type of mediocrity.  It is a mediocrity that all but about five clubs in the country would die for, but it still a mediocrity of sorts.

 

The thing is, I suspect most of the Arsenal fans on here do have some sympathy for it. I know I do, within reason, but I also find most of the 'Wenger Out' banner brigade to be such whiny, sanctimonious, patronising gits when they put it across. They act like Wenger is a joke, that they know better, and that if we'd just signed a few more players every year we would have just won everything all the time (because we're definitely owed trophies, and everyone else would've just rolled over and let us take them without a fight).

 

I know we've stagnated. I know Wenger isn't a tactician. I know we've under-performed for a while now, and that if anything we're going backwards. I also know that with Wenger Arsenal have had their most successful period in history, moved to a brand new stadium (and then still managed to continually challenge and/or make the Champions League whilst paying for it), and have basically been really bloody good for 20+ years. For that he deserves a shitload more respect than he's getting from a huge section of the Arsenal "faithful".

 

You never know what might have happened without Wenger (maybe Abramovich would've bought Arsenal instead of Chelsea, and Steve and co. would be as happy as Larry or, perhaps more likely, have found something else to whinge about, like "the soul of the club" or something), but realistically I think we were quite likely to follow a similar trajectory to Everton, or maybe even Villa. Maybe we'd have been better, at least on the basis that we have being in London on our side, but otherwise that's where I could easily have have seen us going - often good, but not great. Man Utd and Liverpool were historically bigger, our team was getting old (and wouldn't have played anywhere near as long), and we had been generally a bit hit-and-miss for a few years. Instead, Arsene Wenger came in and revolutionised both Arsenal and the English game.

 

I do wish he'd gone a couple of years ago (I wanted him to move upstairs and for us to get Klopp, and said so at the time), but that doesn't mean I'm fine with him being called an idiot, or a joke, especially not by some angry, entitled little men with short memories. I'm also not fine with said people implying that that they know it all, and that anyone who disagrees is a lost little lamb without a clue. If anyone matching that description reins their shit in and starts talking like a normal, sane, respectful person then I'd be much more inclined to actually engage with them on the parts of their viewpoints I agree (and disagree) with, rather than just getting to the shrill, tinfoil hat parts and rolling my eyes.

[hauk]

It's pretty clear that the owners had no interest in getting a new manager in and were just waiting for results to improve after the Bayern debacle before announcing Wenger's contract extension. They were probably hoping for Top 4 and FA Cup final.

 

Given our recent performances, which I think have been compounded by the Ozil/Sanchez contract issues and trying out a brand new midfield duo of Elneny & Xhaka this late in the season, I doubt either of those things will happen.

 

It's gonna be a shit show if we lose heavily to Spurs away and the board either give Wenger an extension OR just as bad make a snap decision and fire him with little or no forethought as to who to bring in and how to restructure the club after his departure.

[Majora]

Be careful what you wish for, Arsenal fans.

 

Signed, a Man Utd fan.

[McFly]

Man Utd won the FA Cup with Van Gaal didnt they? Thats more than enough success according to some Arsenal fans

[Majora]

Since Ferguson left, United have finished 7th, 4th, 5th and are currently in 5th with an outside shot at 4th. We've also won a league cup and an FA Cup. That's after spending hundreds of millions of pounds, breaking transfer records, going through 3 managers and playing some downright fucking rotten football for much of that time. I think a lot of United fans would be pretty happy with a sustained run of Champions League qualification and the odd cup at the moment, which is a sign of how quickly your ambitions can change. Not competing in the Champions League regularly would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

 

I just can't help but feel there's a good chance that Arsenal will be looking back at this time as the halycon years once Wenger has gone. Massive figures like Wenger and Fergie are great for stability but the transitions from them can be extremely painful.

 

 

[Rocafella]

On the other hand, regularly changing Manager has worked incredibly well for Chelsea, combined with strong player recruitment. 

[McFly]

30 minutes ago, Majora said:

Since Ferguson left, United have finished 7th, 4th, 5th and are currently in 5th with an outside shot at 4th. We've also won a league cup and an FA Cup. That's after spending hundreds of millions of pounds, breaking transfer records, going through 3 managers and playing some downright fucking rotten football for much of that time. I think a lot of United fans would be pretty happy with a sustained run of Champions League qualification and the odd cup at the moment, which is a sign of how quickly your ambitions can change. Not competing in the Champions League regularly would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

 

I just can't help but feel there's a good chance that Arsenal will be looking back at this time as the halycon years once Wenger has gone. Massive figures like Wenger and Fergie are great for stability but the transitions from them can be extremely painful.

 

 

Or, a new manager will sort the obvious blind spots Wenger has and Arsenal will be better than they are currently. Yes change from huge personalities like Fergie and Wenger can be hard, but its not 1, 2 or even 5 seasons of a downward trend its 10 and it seems to be  getting worse. So whats to hold on to? 

[BlinkyBear]

16 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

*retrospective, entitled, whiny bullshit*

 

No offence Steve, bu... actually, fuck that. 

 

I bet you had a real shit-eating grin on your face typing that load of bollocks didn't you? You know what they say, a stopped clock is right at least twice a day and that's what your entitled bullshit has done-happened to come true because you've moaned for long enough that Wenger had to go. You didn't predict it, you didn't foresee it, and despite how your post reads, you're not the only one to have said it before now. But fuck me, you seem to take so much pleasure from it that it's difficult not to imagine that you're the kind of petty arsehole who takes an A4 piece of paper into the ground after you and your mates have stood on the tiny roundabout outside the club shop shouting "Wexit". 

 

Hope you're enjoying this and good luck in being just as fucking delirious when everything has gone to even greater shit next year. 

1 hour ago, McFly said:

Man Utd won the FA Cup with Van Gaal didnt they? Thats more than enough success according to some Arsenal fans

You're confusing one FA cup win for Man Utd with Arsenal consistently finishing in the top 4, qualifying for the last 16 of the CL, winning two FA Cups and spending significantly less than Man Utd in the same period.

[BlinkyBear]

1 hour ago, Rocafella said:

On the other hand, regularly changing Manager has worked incredibly well for Chelsea, combined with strong player recruitment, having spent £3billion. 

 

Can we all fuck off with this fawning over Chelsea? If that's the Club and people admire, go support them. Their model is successful yes, but fuck that noise. 

[Steve007]

49 minutes ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

Can we all fuck off with this fawning over Chelsea? If that's the Club and people admire, go support them. Their model is successful yes, but fuck that noise. 

 

You seem content with mediocrity and failure.  You are part of the problem.

 

Chelsea do whatever it takes to win.  It doesn't always work season after season, but their mistakes are only due to the constant pressure that they put themselves under to perform and compete at the highest level.  They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  Chelsea have a manager that from a different era to that dinosaur Wenger who uses that pressure to inspire his players.  You have to admire what they are trying to do and that is the model to copy If you want to compete (great manager + tactics + investing in high calibre players = results). 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Arsenal model doesn't work.  Whatever that model is.

 

Can't you see that the top managers in the league spend 90 mins on the touchline going mad trying to get the best out of their team?  Klopp, Guardiola & Conte are constantly barking instructions at their players and making adjustments.  We have a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins and a number 2 who only speaks when he gets permission from Wenger.  When things are going wrong why is he not trying to actually do his job and get the players to perform, particularly when there isn't a single leader on the pitch?  It's fucking desperately sad to watch them mope around and misplace pass after pass without any sort of meaningful game plan or system.

[Steve007]

2 hours ago, Majora said:

Be careful what you wish for, Arsenal fans.

 

Signed, a Man Utd fan.

 

Fergie left when he knew his team were in dire need of a rebuild.  He left on a high and it was always going to be impossible to follow in his footsteps.  Moyes was a terrible choice and his methods are not all that different from Wenger's.  Both Moyes & Wenger are belong in the past.

LVG was a great manager but he was just too fucking weird and different to what Man United's players were used to so it didn't really work out as he essentially was trying to do what he always does, play the 1990's Ajax way, regardless of whether or not he has suitable players for that system.  I don't think he did a bad job for you, but he was always a stop-gap replacement until they got the man they really wanted.

 

I hear a lot of Man United fans who are unhappy with Jose, but you're only a decent goalscorer and defender away from having a really solid team.  Put it this way, your problems are a hell of a lot easier to fix than ours.  

[Oh Danny Boy]

Give Jose a couple more years and he'll alienate half the United team, board and fanbase before spitting his toys out of his pram and running into the arms of the next big club who will have him for a few seasons.

 

Maybe Arsenal should adopt the Chelsea way, buy the best players in the world and have them on high wages. It sounds so simple only a genius could have thought of it. I'll ask you your opinion on that method of success when Arsenal go bankrupt.

[Rocafella]

Best players in the world? Hardly. They haven't bought anybody that the other big clubs couldn't have gone in for. They paid £90m combined for Kante, Costa and Hazard, the same price United paid for Pogba. It's not rocket science. Chelsea rarely get their signings wrong. They've spent a lot of money, but so have the two Manchester clubs. It's pretty rich to complain. They've just done it far better.

[Commander Jameson]

Don't Chelsea have a better hit rate simply because they have bought a huge number of players? Plus, it is easier to sign a few good players once you have got that stable base that they have had from their previous years of big spending.

[tonymg]

3 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  

This isn't really true though, can't think of anyone Wenger signed who at the time was world class.  In fact the only players who really fit the "world class" description are Ozil and Sanchez

3 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

Fergie left when he knew his team were in dire need of a rebuild.  He left on a high and it was always going to be impossible to follow in his footsteps.    

I'd be more inclined to believe Fergies reason for leaving being his wife's sister dying and the team was only in dire need of a rebuild because he left. I have no doubt he would have at least one more title if he would have stayed.  The problem was he didn't give the club enough time to find a suitable replacement (and David Gill also leaving), the same problem Arsenal will face if Wenger leaves this summer.  

[fat flatulent git]

3 hours ago, tonymg said:

This isn't really true though, can't think of anyone Wenger signed who at the time was world class.  In fact the only players who really fit the "world class" description are Ozil and Sanchez

 

 

Not a fan of Thierry Henry then?

[tonymg]

3 hours ago, smelly bastard said:

 

Not a fan of Thierry Henry then?

Henry wasn't "world class" when he was signed.

[fat flatulent git]

I don't agree with that, but fair enough.

[Cappuccino Kid]

13 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

You seem content with mediocrity and failure.  You are part of the problem.

 

Chelsea do whatever it takes to win.  It doesn't always work season after season, but their mistakes are only due to the constant pressure that they put themselves under to perform and compete at the highest level.  They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  Chelsea have a manager that from a different era to that dinosaur Wenger who uses that pressure to inspire his players.  You have to admire what they are trying to do and that is the model to copy If you want to compete (great manager + tactics + investing in high calibre players = results). 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Arsenal model doesn't work.  Whatever that model is.

 

Can't you see that the top managers in the league spend 90 mins on the touchline going mad trying to get the best out of their team?  Klopp, Guardiola & Conte are constantly barking instructions at their players and making adjustments.  We have a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins and a number 2 who only speaks when he gets permission from Wenger.  When things are going wrong why is he not trying to actually do his job and get the players to perform, particularly when there isn't a single leader on the pitch?  It's fucking desperately sad to watch them mope around and misplace pass after pass without any sort of meaningful game plan or system.

 

God, this is exactly the sort of rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth bullshit that is making the atmosphere around the club so poisonous at the moment. I think the vast majority of fans think it's time for a change, and are unhappy with the lack of leadership from the very top down.

 

But "that dinosaur Wenger"? Who is just "a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins"? That is bollocks on so many levels. Firstly, this is a man who has devoted 20 years of his life to the club. Not because it's an easy payday, but because he loves the club, and is desperate to do right by it. He's overseen the most successful period in our history, and is now a victim of the high standards he himself set. He's seen us through a stadium move and an accompanying period of tight finances whilst remaining competitive in a way that no other club has yet managed. Secondly, "constantly barking instructions" does not correlate to managerial ability, and anybody who believes it does isn't worth listening to.

 

Yes, Wenger's best days are behind him and it's time for someone new to come in. Yes, the uncertainty around his future is contributing to problems on the pitch. Yes, he is infuriatingly stubborn at times. Yes, the problems with the club run way deeper than just the manager. And yes, (before you suggest otherwise) I'd love to win the league or the Champions League.

 

But it's possible to put pressure on the club to change whilst still showing some respect for what Wenger has given the club, and some basic human decency. Once the more vocal members of the "Wenger out" crowd realise that, perhaps they'll start getting somewhere.

[Plissken]

Aren't a large number of people who are sitting on the fence or leaning for him to go doing so precisely because they respect what he has done for the club and want it to end with dignity?

 

Obviously you have your rabid ones on either side but the Arsenal fans I've spoken to have a sort of unspoken resignation that although they don't want him to leave, nothing will change until he does.

[g wings]

I think that's right.

 

I think he's been incredible. I also think it's time for change (squad and management). It's likely to mean harder times ahead but it needs to happen at some stage and dragging it out just delays the inevitable and slowly chips away at his legacy.

[cavalcade]

I think it's worth directly addressing the poison that is "passion" and "spirit" and "leadership" that English football fans seem to automatically equate with success. In actual real business, 70s style command and control management has long been seen as utterly counter-productive. Managing through fear and shouting often has short term success, but rarely works longer term. I actually respect Wenger's management style. He clearly trusts his professional players to do a job, adapt to situations they find themselves in and find a way to win. Regardless of what other managers think, apart from a tactical switch at half time and subs, a manager's role in the actual game isn't that massive. The most successful teams in the world don't have someone going mental 24/7, so demanding it as a minimum so you can claim they have "passion" is just mouthbreathing anglofootball bollocks of the highest order. Leicester won the premier league at a canter last year with a manager who was so chilled he was basically horizontal. Arsenal's problems aren't because their players are all shit, don't care and need yelled at. Their problem is, that year after year there has been one or two teams slightly better than them. Which if you're a half full sort of person suggests that year after year Wenger has produced a team better than about 90% of the rest of the league. The league positions don't lie. You can whine and moan about having shit seasons, but what does that mean Everton is having this year then? They still seem to be below you in the league. Are the points you're accruing magically appearing or being granted by fairies? 

 

The point remains. What is it you want to change? You want Pulis in to give the players a bollocking so they start displaying "spirit"? Good luck with that. Let's see how that goes. 

 

 

[BlinkyBear]

18 hours ago, Steve007 said:

 

You seem content with mediocrity and failure.  You are part of the problem.

 

Chelsea do whatever it takes to win.  It doesn't always work season after season, but their mistakes are only due to the constant pressure that they put themselves under to perform and compete at the highest level.  They are in a different world to Arsenal and it makes me sick that they buy ready made world class players who have that winning mentality - like we used to do back in the day.  Chelsea have a manager that from a different era to that dinosaur Wenger who uses that pressure to inspire his players.  You have to admire what they are trying to do and that is the model to copy If you want to compete (great manager + tactics + investing in high calibre players = results). 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Arsenal model doesn't work.  Whatever that model is.

 

Can't you see that the top managers in the league spend 90 mins on the touchline going mad trying to get the best out of their team?  Klopp, Guardiola & Conte are constantly barking instructions at their players and making adjustments.  We have a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins and a number 2 who only speaks when he gets permission from Wenger.  When things are going wrong why is he not trying to actually do his job and get the players to perform, particularly when there isn't a single leader on the pitch?  It's fucking desperately sad to watch them mope around and misplace pass after pass without any sort of meaningful game plan or system.

 

 

I was going to reply to this but then I saw Cappuccino Kid did and covered everything I wanted to. 

 

Instead I'll say this; fuck off with your "part of the problem" you sanctimonious, fustian ingrate. Just because I don't turn up to game with a piece of paper that says "Wenger Out" just in case we lose, doesn't mean that I'm happy with the situation.

In terms of other managers, it's interesting to see that you believe that someone screaming at a team has any direct correlation with success. I think it says volumes about the kind of person you are and how you think things should be expressed and achieved. 

 

Also; have some fucking respect: for fellow supporters, for yourself and mostly importantly, for Wenger. He might "be past it" and it's undoubtedly time for him to go, but talking about him the way that you do not only underlines just how little grace and decency you have, but also demonstrates why large swathes of the supporters can't even begin to countenance protesting in the way that you and the rest of the mob do. I'll say again, if you want to scream obscenities at a manager like an entitled kid, go to Stamford Bridge-you'll fit right in. 

[The Fox]

7 hours ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

But it's possible to put pressure on the club to change whilst still showing some respect for what Wenger has given the club, and some basic human decency. Once the more vocal members of the "Wenger out" crowd realise that, perhaps they'll start getting somewhere.

 

They're not interested in that, those AFTV bellends are just interested in their five minutes of fame.

 

There's no chance these people will stop complaining when Wenger goes. They'll find something to moan about, no doubt. An awful lot of them seem to use the football - an event that is supposed to be recreational enjoyment - as a lightning rod for all their frustrations.

[Steve007]

8 hours ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

But "that dinosaur Wenger"? Who is just "a silly old man who sits on his arse for most of the 90 mins"? That is bollocks on so many levels. Firstly, this is a man who has devoted 20 years of his life to the club. Not because it's an easy payday, but because he loves the club, and is desperate to do right by it. He's overseen the most successful period in our history, and is now a victim of the high standards he himself set. He's seen us through a stadium move and an accompanying period of tight finances whilst remaining competitive in a way that no other club has yet managed.

 

Absolute bullshit.  It's just a job to him, one he enjoys I might add and one he has been paid handsomely to do without any real significant pressure until the last 2 years.

 

He oversaw by far the greatest era in the history of the club but that was a long, long time ago.  He's past it, he's tactics (what they are of them) do not work, his backroom team is full of fucking 'yes' men and he's not the man to lead us forward.

 

Sadly from what I've heard it's a certainty that he will be in charge next season and we'll keep making noise and protesting until he's gone.

[Steve007]

3 hours ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

 

I was going to reply to this but then I saw Cappuccino Kid did and covered everything I wanted to. 

 

Instead I'll say this; fuck off with your "part of the problem" you sanctimonious, fustian ingrate. Just because I don't turn up to game with a piece of paper that says "Wenger Out" just in case we lose, doesn't mean that I'm happy with the situation.

In terms of other managers, it's interesting to see that you believe that someone screaming at a team has any direct correlation with success. I think it says volumes about the kind of person you are and how you think things should be expressed and achieved. 

 

Also; have some fucking respect: for fellow supporters, for yourself and mostly importantly, for Wenger. He might "be past it" and it's undoubtedly time for him to go, but talking about him the way that you do not only underlines just how little grace and decency you have, but also demonstrates why large swathes of the supporters can't even begin to countenance protesting in the way that you and the rest of the mob do. I'll say again, if you want to scream obscenities at a manager like an entitled kid, go to Stamford Bridge-you'll fit right in. 

 

Have respect for Wenger?  Have you seen the contempt he expresses in press conferences when the heat is really on him?  To him, the fans are a nuisance.  He is so stubborn and oblivious to what is going on around him.  My understanding and grace was eroded away a long time ago out of pure frustration and anger at what he and the board are doing to our club.

 

The only way we are going to change things is by getting vocal and hope it has some sort of effect.