Arsenal

[SaintM]

Arsenal you dolts. Schneiderlin was 25m and perfect for you. He scored twice against West Ham away last season too.

[The Fox]

Apparently Utd are paying him £140k/week though - that's a guy off Southampton, with no CL and very little international experience. Our wage structure simply doesn't allow for that; Özil and Alexis barely get more.

We were never going to be in for him at that sort of money and tbh I'm fine with that because that's just where we're at financially. Also while he's a good player who would have improved us, I'm not convinced he's exactly what we needed either. Maybe he'll make a step up at Utd and we'll be left with regrets, but I do think it's perhaps telling that they don't seem to have signed him to play at the base of midfield.

[wev]

Lets not take anything away from West Ham, they played with pace and strength, Payet was impressive and Im looking forward to seeing if they do develop Oxford.

The only player who seemed to be driving us forward was the Ox, but even so, he wasn't using his full quota of abilities and we were trying to play through too many bodies all the time

[Jonathan_Kerr]

Farrrk... Not what I wanted to see after flying for 15 hours.

Losses happen but how many teams win the league after losing their opening game? (Apparently United have done it three times)

Luckily many of the other results were draws but Palace will be tricky next week. Not an ideal start but too soon to push panic button.

[The Fox]

Fucking hell. I'm in the jungle in Southern Thailand and managed to find a place to get some beer and wifi last night the game. Now leeching some internet whilst having breakfast and reading the above you'd think the players had come round and set fires to your houses; we're calling out Ramsey now? Ozil, again? Coq after 60 minutes?

I haven't seen the game and only read reports, but come on, it's only one game. You'll be asking for the manager's head next. Yea, we should beat West Ham at home and it's a really shitty, disappointing way to start the season, but suddenly calling Rambo the 'weak link in the midfield' after one ineffective game is reactionary bollocks.

Also, people talking about 'moving on', 'having a reaction' and 'not dwelling on the game'; I hope we do the complete opposite and do dwell on it. I want the players to think about what went wrong, to talk about it and dissect it, I want them to watch videos and adapt, to have a strong sense of self reflection. This is a warning and the players need to heed it.

I agree with the sentiment in this post but to be fair I don't think G4L and I are being particularly reactionary; it's been clear for some time that G4L doesn't rate Ramsey and while I strongly disagree, that's his opinion. And I talked at length last season about why I feel similarly about Coquelin, and as well as he played in the Cup Final, yesterday was a very good example of why I have those grievances. For me, he isn't a good enough footballer to be our uncontested first choice at the base of midfield.

Also, I think that result had perhaps been coming for some time. I'd say the Cup Final was the first time we'd played well with this side since Liverpool at the start of April (and even in that game, we were a tad lucky). We got a taster of this with the Swansea defeat I think, when we were awful, and in the 0-0 against Sunderland we weren't much better. That late-season dip allowed Man City to overtake us and eventually get second place.

Since then Wenger has tweaked things a bit, moving Cazorla wide left and Ramsey back central, and obviously we had an encouraging pre-season. It worked ok against Chelsea, even though tbh I don't think we actually played *that* well. It could be that having Fenton at CF in that game helped; with Cazorla, Giroud and Ox as a front three on Sunday, 2/3rds of the attack was slow as fuck, while the other 1/3 doesn't really run in behind off the ball. Hard to get our neat combinations and overloads going that way, and no one making any 'outlet' runs to play out to either. The 'chuck on all the attackers' subs were pretty awful and unsurprisingly we'd lost all semblance of shape by the end.

The squad has massive potential but it's clear that the manager hasn't worked out how to balance the midfield properly, because it's been fairly dysfunctional for some time. I don't think signing any centre forward in the world is going to help with that unfortunately. I'm not sure we actually learnt anything yesterday that we didn't already know. Coquelin can struggle badly with his passing, and Petr Cech lets in the odd howler at his near post. Those weren't the only problems of course - every player was poor apart from maybe Ox. But the midfield just never got going, the attackers were all too far apart from each other, and then a couple of defensive howlers cost us the game against a sharp and organised West Ham side who deserve a fair bit of credit.

[gooner4life]

Agreed, however I wouldn't say I dont 'rate' Ramsey, i just see him as the weak link in this particular system, you want Ramsey on the end of things, not with the ball at his feet and time to play.

[Dude Ranch]

I'm not the biggest Ramsey fan. I think he over complicates things and when he's not on his game he doesn't seem to have the ability to knuckle down and make a difference by hook or by crook. He's a bit all or nothing for me. Don't know if it's the system or his partner or what. I think Wilshere is the one to tie it all together somehow but he's knacked more often than not. Really unsure about how we should line up in midfield. Coquelin was poor yesterday and looked a bit like he was trying to do too much rather than sit and play it simple like he did last year. Also, everyone has lauded Cech but at 33 I'm not entirely convinced and not just on his performance yesterday. I think he was dropped in it a bit for the first goal.

[Larsen B]

An odd habit Wenger has developed is to experiment with a new system at the beginning of the season which differs from the end of the previous season when things were working. The 4-1-4-1 last season and then not having Coquelin/Cazorla in central midfield this.

The most glaring statistic for me is that we've not scored in 4 out of the last 5 PL home games. Evidently there's something missing when we're the team in possession and has been for a while.

[The Fox]

Agreed, however I wouldn't say I dont 'rate' Ramsey, i just see him as the weak link in this particular system, you want Ramsey on the end of things, not with the ball at his feet and time to play.

I would personally say Ramsey's technique and passing are better than you give him credit for, but yeah I broadly agree with that. Yeah he can tackle, and has a great engine, but principally he's an instinctive player with a good eye for getting into scoring positions, and you don't want to waste that. And that's the problem with that Coq-Ramsey midfield; neither of them are suited to passing out from the back. Ramsey is the better of the two but it's hardly what you'd call a strength, and as you say, that's not what you want him to be primarily doing. Like, I'm not saying he should totally absolve himself of responsibility to build play, but I don't think you want him sitting back too often either because you lose his goal threat an interplay with Ozil. Coq-Wilshere *might* work a bit better but that's moot because Jack isn't going to be fully sharp until Christmas I expect.

Presumably, seeing as we haven't signed anyone, Wenger remains unconvinced by the younger defensive midfielders out there and was hoping that we'd be able to get by for another season. Honestly though, at this point I'd be giving some serious thought to signing Thiago Motta. Not a long-term solution by any means, but he's vastly experienced at the highest level while presumably being less dead than Mikel Arteta, and he's definitely a better passer than Coq. Might struggle with the tempo over here but the options are thin on the ground.

I'm not the biggest Ramsey fan. I think he over complicates things and when he's not on his game he doesn't seem to have the ability to knuckle down and make a difference by hook or by crook. He's a bit all or nothing for me. Don't know if it's the system or his partner or what. I think Wilshere is the one to tie it all together somehow but he's knacked more often than not. Really unsure about how we should line up in midfield. Coquelin was poor yesterday and looked a bit like he was trying to do too much rather than sit and play it simple like he did last year. Also, everyone has lauded Cech but at 33 I'm not entirely convinced and not just on his performance yesterday. I think he was dropped in it a bit for the first goal.

Yeah definitely not going to jump to conclusions because he's still obviously a good keeper, but I don't think enough was said about the defence Cech played behind at Chelsea. I saw a lot of stupid journos coming out with pithy crap like "Well you have to expect Cech to make these sorts of mistakes, going from Terry+Cahill to Mertesacker+Koscielny", implying that the former pair are on a different quality sphere or some shit. Obviously that's just cheap Arsenal-bashing with no real merit, but what is worth talking about is how Cech spent most of his time at Chelsea behind a very deep back line, and when AVB came in and tried to play a high line, Cech (and Terry) struggled badly.

[gooner4life]

FWIW i dont think Cech was entirely at fault for the first goal, our starting position defending the set piece was poor, there was far too much space in behind the defensive line and the goalkeeper and that's what made Cech come, really one of our players should have been sticking their head on that ball, it was too low for the keeper to come and take and he had to move a long way to try.

The second goal was just out of the blue, Cech was caught flat footed, he was showing a lot to his right, but in the position Zarate was in and the type of football West Ham play i was expecting an in swinging cross to the far post and I think Cech was as well.

[The Fox]

Yeah Cech isn't solely at fault by any means. The first, Per has organised the line in a bloody weird spot. They shouldn't be that high up. Then I think it was Coquelin who was nowhere near in line and played everyone on.

The second is just a clusterfuck really. The ball is going straight to Per until Coq inexplicably slides in, doesn't really get anything on it, and is left high and dry as a result. I obviously don't know if Per gave Coq a shout, and if not then he bloody well should have done, but it was still a pretty brainless piece of play. Ox then gets cheaply dispossessed in a dangerous area, not one of Cazorla, Coquelin and Koscielny closes Zarate down with any intensity, and he gets a fairly weak shot away which beats Cech at his near post. Just awful all round.

[Guest]

Whooooaaa

[The Fox]

What are we thinking for Palace then? We've struggled there in the last couple of years and they're a better side now.

On one hand I think Wenger should play it safe and go back to the Coquelin-Cazorla base. Either play Ramsey on the right or bench him for this one. But then I think, Arsene's moved Ramsey back central in pre-season and West Ham. He obviously wants him there, and presumably they've had discussions about it too seeing as Ramsey has made some public statements saying he doesn't like playing on the right. Will Wenger jack that in after one bad result? I'm not so sure.

If he does go for the latter option though, I hope he's at least had a word with Aaron about making that partnership work better. It's not a pairing that functions well on paper, and we've seen that bear out on the pitch the few times they've played together. But that doesn't mean nothing can be done to improve what we saw against West Ham. Currently both guys seem to carry on doing their thing as if they had their preferred partners of Arteta and Cazorla alongside them. Of the two, I think the onus should be more on Ramsey to adapt his game. He's technically and tactically the better player of the two, with much more top level experience, and the tweaks you'd want him to make are more about approach than any real fundamental issues with his ability. Asking Coquelin to "Be much better at passing" is comparatively unrealistic.

Essentially, Ramsey needs to take more responsibility for building play and getting the ball to the forwards, because it can't be left to Coquelin. If that means he has less chance to get into scoring positions, so be it. No, it's not ideal. No, it's not a long-term solution. No, I don't think Coq/Ramsey can function long-term without losing a lot of what an in-form an uninhibited Ramsey can offer. I still think we desperately need a signing in that position, to give us a chance to get 13/14 Ramsey back. I don't think Coquelin-Cazorla is what we should build around going forward, excluding both Ramsey and Wilshere from the middle. But for now, in the short term, I think Ramsey needs to accept that his mate Arteta is dead (RIP), and change his game accordingly if he's going to fit into the centre of this current side.

[Space Renegade Ulala]

I awoke this morning in a cold sweat after dreaming we lost our next game 9 - 7. Thank goodness we're only playing Palace and that can't happen on any plain of reality ever.

[One Eye]

By asking Ramsey to play that way don't you miss the point of playing him? He could do it but it's not what he's great at. He should only really play in the centre with Arteta imo. I think putting Ramsey on the right frees him to do exactly what he's good at and I'm baffled as to why Wenger split up Coqzorla. If he'd bought a new player in there then it would make sense.

[SeanR]

It's been 21 years since Crystal Palace last beat Arsenal,

[The Fox]

By asking Ramsey to play that way don't you miss the point of playing him? He could do it but it's not what he's great at. He should only really play in the centre with Arteta imo. I think putting Ramsey on the right frees him to do exactly what he's good at and I'm baffled as to why Wenger split up Coqzorla. If he'd bought a new player in there then it would make sense.

You lose a lot, yeah. You lose the nice interplay with Ozil and Giroud. Ozil loses one of the few guys in the squad who likes running in behind the opposition defence. You lose his goals. It's not ideal. But for now, he has to accept that Coquelin is currently the guy in that defensive role. The alternatives are Flamini, who isn't as good, and Arteta, who is seemingly fucked beyond repair. So essentially, until such a time that we sign someone else, there are no alternatives we can use on a regular basis. As such, for now, Ramsey either needs to tailor his approach to form an effective midfield with Coquelin, or he needs to accept playing wide.

[One Eye]

You lose a lot, yeah. You lose the nice interplay with Ozil and Giroud. Ozil loses one of the few guys in the squad who likes running in behind the opposition defence. You lose his goals. It's not ideal. But for now, he has to accept that Coquelin is currently the guy in that defensive role. The alternatives are Flamini, who isn't as good, and Arteta, who is seemingly fucked beyond repair. So essentially, until such a time that we sign someone else, there are no alternatives we can use on a regular basis. As such, for now, Ramsey either needs to tailor his approach to form an effective midfield with Coquelin, or he needs to accept playing wide.

I don't really get that about some players. Surely role (ie what you're doing) is more important than position (nominally where you stand). Ramsey on the right could play his natural game - with Bellerin/Debuchy he wouldn't even need to provide width - and the team overall would be stronger.

I think he could have an excellent season from there with Coq and Cazorla in the centre.

[wev]

I think we saw against West Ham that Debuchy doesn't provide us with width (if he has Chamberlain ahead of him), we were very narrow on Sunday which allowed West Ham to contain the midfield, a midfield with Ramsey, Chamberlain, Özil and Coquelin just doesn't allow the full bucks enough protection to stretch the opposition and create space for the rest of the midfield to work.

I do dislike this whole element of a player dictating to the manager where hes playing, obviously you want the best, most in form players in their natural position, but if you're asked to do a job, just fucking do it.

[One Eye]

Debuchy can provide width I think, maybe. Pretty sure he did/does for Newcastle/France. The left would be an issue though.

[The Fox]

I don't really get that about some players. Surely role (ie what you're doing) is more important than position (nominally where you stand). Ramsey on the right could play his natural game - with Bellerin/Debuchy he wouldn't even need to provide width - and the team overall would be stronger.

I think he could have an excellent season from there with Coq and Cazorla in the centre.

Personally I would say he was largely 'ok' rather than particuarly good on the right. He had a lot of joy against Liverpool at home, but that was mostly because they played right into our hands by fielding three at the back. Other than that I think he was a long way off his 2013/14 effectiveness in basically all areas.

Oxlade-Chamberlain was out injured for pretty much that entire period I think so he kept his place no questions asked, but would you generally play him there over a fit Ox? I'm not sure I would.

[One Eye]

Personally I would say he was largely 'ok' rather than particuarly good on the right. He had a lot of joy against Liverpool at home, but that was mostly because they played right into our hands by fielding three at the back. Other than that I think he was a long way off his 2013/14 effectiveness in basically all areas.

Oxlade-Chamberlain was out injured for pretty much that entire period I think so he kept his place no questions asked, but would you generally play him there over a fit Ox? I'm not sure I would.

You're almost certainly right (not an arsenal fan just watch too much football). But that raises the question of either dropping him, playing arteta or buying a suitable partner. I really thought Coquelin and Cazorla looked great at the back end of last season. Not sure why you'd break it up.

[The Fox]

My personal feeling is too much emphasis is placed on Coquelin coming into the side. Not anyone on here necessarily, but I was talking to a guy yesterday who insisted Coq had "saved our season". With Arteta out injured, Coquelin's introduction at the expense of Flamini was definitely a factor in the upturn of our form. He deserves a portion of credit for sure. However in my opinion, to suggest it that he single-handedly saved our season, or that he was even the primary factor in that upswing, is pretty hyperbolic to say the last.

For a start, the performances initially started to improve with the 2-0 win over Dortmund in late November, which happened while Coquelin was still on loan. Wilshere had been injured in the recent defeat to Man Utd so we abandoned the 4-1-4-1 shape from early season and reverted to the 4-2-3-1 from 2013/14, and with Arteta and Ramsey in midfield we were very good. This was followed up by wins against West Brom and Southampton. Arteta got injured and was replaced by Flamini, and we then had a horrible performance at Stoke where we went 3-0 down in the first half. It was then Ramsey's turn to get injured, which led to Coquelin being recalled from loan as emergency cover. Within a few games Coq had usurped Flamini in midfield. He was in the side during the woeful 2-0 loss to Southampton, so it's certainly not accurate to say we hit the ground running!

Things picked up again with the 0-2 win over Man City, in which we went back to the 4-1-4-1. This time though, we were very focused on defensive shape, with Cazorla and the returning Ramsey stationed very close to Coquelin and all three working hard. Man City were missing some key players and were rather poor on the day, but part of that was down to how quiet those three kept Silva.

Shortly afterwards, Ozil came back from injury and we reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the remainder of the season. We attempted the Man City shape away to Spurs but, with Cazorla having an off day, the midfield struggled against their intense pressing. It was becoming apparent that Coquelin needed a fair bit of help on the ball, and that Ramsey wasn't necessarily the best guy to do that. As such, and with Ox now on the treatment table, Ramsey was moved wide right, and the Coqzorla axis was born. Subsequent results were good, but the performances weren't always sparkling. Liverpool at home was the zenith for that side, with Ramsey and Bellerin running riot against their misguided 3-5-2. However that was followed up by an extremely laboured win over Burnley, and some cracks were beginning to show.

Poor performances followed against Swansea and Sunderland, and you could see that, when the opposition was sitting back, and Coq had nothing to seek and destroy, he was essentially a passenger. He started to get substituted in favour of players who could offer more control and better building of attacks, and had Arteta been fit, he may well have been benched for some of those games against the lesser lights. He redeemed himself though with a very good display against Villa in the Cup Final and as such, was never likely to get dropped for the opener this season against West Ham, even if it meant trying that Ramsey-Coq axis again.

Anyway the purpose of that review is to try and illustrate that there were a lot of factors at play, and it's nowhere near as simple as saying "We were shit, then Coquelin came in and we were good". The results picked up initially when we reverted to a tried and tested formation, and continued when: 1.Ramsey came back from injury, 2. Koscielny came back from injury, 3. Ozil came back from injury, 4. Coq and Ospina came into the side, 5. Mertesacker regained his form. Lots of factors there. Coquelin is one for sure. He totally excelled expectations to come back in from the cold in the way he did, but for that guy to say he "Saved our season" is, as I said, pretty simplistic and OTT.

My point, essentially, is that I personally feel the Coqzorla midfield was not quite as good as some people claim, and we actually had some pretty rotten performances with it. I do not think it is a midfield that will win you the league or get you to the CL semis if you use it week in week out. Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty good, and that they both deserve credit for making it work as well as it did. It's a good option to have, certainly in the big games. We've had good results vs Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd and City with it.

However we've also struggled badly to break down the likes of Burnley, Swansea, Sunderland and West Ham with Coquelin in the side, and for me, he's not the sort of guy we need against those teams at home. When the onus is on us to control the middle and build attacks, rather than to firefight, Coq generally offers little and, recently, has found himself being substituted early. Also, there were occasions when we were under the cosh protecting a lead and could have really done with that calm slowing of the tempo that Arteta used to be able to offer us, in order to take the sting out of the game and kill that opposition momentum. Coquelin, all fire and blood, doesn't really have the ability to do that (perhaps circumstances like that would be a good time for Arteta/Coquelin: one to instill control; one to stop us getting caught on the counter). Cazorla is a fine technical player with a good passing range, but he's still learning the role and he is yet to show that he can truly control the middle and set the tempo.

I also think that, while results were undeniably good for the most part with Coq/Santi, many people have forgotten how well we did with the Ramsey/Arteta midfield in the first half of 2013/14. After the opening day loss, in which Arteta did not play, we took 35 points out of a possible 42 going into December, (the only loss coming against Man Utd when Ramsey/Arteta did not play in CM), and also beat Dortmund away in the Champions League. The wheels came off when Ramsey got injured, but we had a strong end to the season when the pairing were reunited. We had several hammerings in the big games that season, but Ramsey/Arteta did not play together in any of them.

That is not to say I think we should be playing Ramsey/Arteta all the time these days though. For one thing, it's quite possible that Mikel is permanently fucked, only to be used in case of emergency. It's highly unlikely that he has the fitness to play regularly at the top level anymore. For me, he needs replacing as a matter of urgency if we're to win the title. We need that option.

I think that there's generally a link between how highly you rate Ramsey, and whether you think Coq/Cazorla is what we should stick with for the season. Those who don't think as highly of Aaron and perhaps think his 2013/14 was a bit of a fluke, generally see no reason to break up Cazorla/Coquelin just so that Ramsey can be restored to the middle. My viewpoint is that the Ramsey/Arteta axis seen at the beginning and end of 2013/14 was more effective than Coquelin/Cazorla, certainly against 'lesser' teams. Over the course of 20 games with Ramsey/Arteta, we averaged 2.5 points per game!

This is a list of the Goals/Assists leaders for 2013/14. The names aren't there, but Ramsey is on the list thanks to 13 goals and 7 assists. The numbers listed are tackles/interceptions for those players. Ramsey is the one with more than double what anyone else has. Basically, his all round contribution in midfield that season was staggering. Maybe it was a fluke. Maybe all the stars aligned for those few months. He may never get close to it again. But for me, if there's the slightest chance that we can get that Ramsey back - when he was probably the most complete, in-form midfielder in the world at the age of 23.- we should be looking to do that going forward. And that means we need another midfielder to replace Arteta alongside him.

[carlito]

The Fox confirmed for three Weetabix.

[The Fox]

I know right. Been doing CAD shit all morning and I was bored off my tits.

[carlito]

I love it. Get deep.

[SeanR]

I love it. Get deep.

[anders limpar]

Sensational post.

[mop]

http://www.livefootballol.com/channel/bloodzeed-torrentstream.html

You need acestream for it to work

[mop]

The only other stream options I know of can be found here. Hope that sorts you out

http://www.ronaldo7.net/video/sports-live/sports-live-stream.html