Arsenal

[gooner4life]

well said, I imagine The Fox has got some weird shrine to Arteta.

[toythatkills]

Well he is very attractive.

Also, QPR. Fuck's sake.

[The Fox]

Get over your obsession with Arteta, Coquelin was brilliant and doesn't put the team under pressure at all, your obsession is weird.

Haha, imagine making this post as a grown man ffs. Why don't you try pointing out why you think I'm wrong instead?

[gooner4life]

I already have, he doesn't have the legs to protect the back four and he doesn't offer enough of a goal threat anymore so he's way down in the pecking order for me, Coquelin and Wilshere or Coquelin and Cazorla are the best options we have sat infront of the back four.

Ramsey is too prone to losing possession so I don't like him sitting deeper.

[The Fox]

Ok that isn't really a counter point to what I've said. I've explained in detail in what scenarios Arteta could be more useful, and the only argument you can come up with is some vague cliché about "Not having the legs", like the bloke was ever fast ffs. Oh and "Doesn't offer a goal threat", because obviously Coquelin is banging them in every week.

If we play Coquelin/Flamini we have less control of midfield than with Arteta. That's bloody obvious. Sometimes that's fine and works well (City away), sometimes it's detrimental (Newcastle away). I'm acknowledging the weaknesses and strengths of both guys and explaining where and when they should be preferable; you're just putting Coquelin forward as some sort of perfect option in all scenarios. Who sounds most like they have a shrine?

Mind you you also think Wilshere is a better CM than Ramsey so I suppose it's to be expected.

[The Fox]

Coquelin is brilliant at knowing his role. He's effective and reliable but let's focus on what he can't do! Didn't Song get shit loads for being ill disciplined, roaming all over the shop and being a bit Hollywood? Coquelin isn't there to creatively boss the midfield and set a tempo. If we weren't doing that there are other players who should stand up before him.

Christ, on what planet was I "focusing on what he can't do" when my post literally talks about the "best and worst"? You see that word "best" there yeah? And the bit after where I say he was "brilliant at winning the ball back"? The post is totally 50/50 but for some reason any sort of acknowledgment that he isn't the Second Coming means I'm trashing the bloke? So silly.

Also what on Earth is the correlation between Song's wanderlust and me saying I think Arteta would occasionally be preferable in certain scenarios? Arteta's positioning is probably his biggest strength. What does Song have to do with anything?

Anyways I'm gonna give up on this I think. My sole point is that Arteta still has value and is much better than Coquelin at certain defensive midfield tasks (just as Coq is better than him at others). If people don't agree that's ok, I think I've laboured my point in as much detail as I can now really. If anyone wants to offer a detailed analysis of why an Arteta type *wouldn't* have improved us in the second half vs Newcastle; or point out one top European team whose defensive midfielder has such a limited skill set, I'm happy to hear it, but sadly the only counterpoints offered have ranged from 'flimsy and vague' to 'primary school insult'.

[Dude Ranch]

What was that about grown men? Get over yourself and stop being so aggressive and worthy.

[The Fox]

Forgive me for getting irritated at trying to debate with a bloke whose arguing skills consist of saying I am "obsessed" with Arteta and "have a weird shrine" to him, then silently negging my follow up posts

Anyways jeez, I'm done with this one now. We've won 8 on the bounce and it's all bickering in here! I'll accept a large part of the blame for that by making some fairly negative posts about Coquelin, but the only reason I even mentioned him was because I feel he's just as flawed as Arteta, and all the glowing praise flying about seems a bit short sighted to me. But yeah I've explained why I think that, there's nowt else to say.

[wev]

Id say that the praise for Coquelin is a little premature, thing is, his weaknesses can be worked on to a greater degree as theyre more about coaching, maturity and experience. Arteta's weaknesses are all physical and getting worse with age.

Its a "good" problem to have, but I do think the team is in need of someone who has the ability to partner either

[NexivRed]

I have to say I find some of the sentiments about Arteta a bit sad. He's been a brilliant performer overall, having come in to the club at a very difficult and unstable time. It is just plain weird and wrong for gooner4life to blame him for our heavy defeats last year.

Coquelin has earned his place in the side and the way he's grabbed his unexpected chance has been impressive, but at the same time it's naive to pretend he doesnt have weaker areas to his game. He plays about half as many passes per match than Arteta, which is a huge difference. Obviously that affects our build up play. How could it not? Even in the Liverpool game the quality of build up play wasn't that high - we were just very efficient in attack. Coquelin wins the ball back quickly (obviously he is excellent at this, we can all see it) then plays a quick pass. We transition from defence to attack much faster with him.

I think what Fox is trying to say, even though he seems overly harsh on Coq, is that both approaches can be useful. I'm sure even Coq himself would admit that Arteta is the most calm, intelligent passer we have in the middle. At the moment if we want to protect a lead we have seen Flamini come on a few times alongside Coquelin. Ideally I'm sure Arsene would be bringing on Arteta instead, as he can instill some calmness into that area of the pitch and take the sting out of things. I think he still has something to offer as a rotational option. Before this injury we were beating Anderlecht comfortably, then went to pieces literally as soon as he went off and couldn't keep the ball. Surely that alone shows he still has worth? He looks after the ball better than anyone in the squad except Ozil.

That said, I think Coq deserves to keep his spot in general until the end of the season, he's certainly not done anything to warrant being dropped and Arteta has barely played in months.

[gooner4life]

I'm not blaming Arteta, we went to pot in those heavy defeats but Arteta doesnt have the engine to take control of those games when we start poorly.

It remains to be seen whether Coquelin will be able to do that job, as he's been fortunate that the team have been on the front foot mainly, but Arteta would definitely be a step backwards in the team now.

[NexivRed]

I don't think anyone said Arteta should go straight into the side though. As far as I can tell the points talked about were 1. Some of Le Coq's praise may be a bit premature since he obviously has areas of his game that need work and 2. That Arteta still has a useful role to play. If so then I am surprised anyone disagrees with that really. How can someone with Arteta's composure and tactical intelligence not be a useful player to put on when protecting a lead?

It's interesting you speak about poor starts because I'd say he was the calmest player in the Cup Final at 2-0 down and he really helped the others stop shitting themselves! I don't think he needs the engine when he was Ramsey next to him, because he's got one of the best around to compensate. That is definitely a concern if Ramsey isn't available though. I would now only ever use Arteta if Ramsey can partner him and do his running, or as a sub when we're trying to protect a lead and kill the game.

[wev]

Out of the three, I'd offload Flamini, I don't think he has anywhere near as much to offer to the team on or off the pitch as Arteta and Coquelin and I'm of the opinion that Coquelin will learn a hell of alot from playing and training alongside Arteta.

[The Fox]

I think Flamini will go in the summer. Even if we don't sign anyone in central midfield he's firmly third choice now, and with good reason.

The only way him and Podolski will be around next season is if they don't give a fuck about playing and want to just Bogarde out the the final year of their contracts. Neither of them seem the type to do that though, to be fair.

[Pandy]

How are you lot feeling about the FA Cup tie on Saturday? I'm a Reading fan and don't really fancy our chances at all. Horrible, horrible flashbacks to that 5-7 League Cup game at the Madejski a few years ago...

[pinholestar]

We're arguably the most in-form team in the country at the moment & should win comfortably. But we're also Arsenal & so carry round an enormous hand cannon ready to blow our own feet off at a moment's notice. No chickens being counted here at all.

[toythatkills]

I'm confident, but I'd be pretty surprised if we didn't go behind first.

[NexivRed]

I hope we see Ramsey back in the middle tomorrow. Arsene seems to like having Cazorla alongside Coq to help out on the technical side of things, but that shouldn't really be necessary against Reading. I'd take the opportunity to give Santi a breather personally, and maybe bring in Welbeck in his place.

[Arc'Tan'Gent]

Has anyone got a spare ticket in the Arsenal end for sale? Long shot I know.

[Gotters]

well this is the last time we'll see Szez in an Arsenal shirt (I hope)

[Starbreaker]

Dear lord. It was never going to be straightforward was it?

[Silent Runner]

well this is the last time we'll see Szez in an Arsenal shirt (I hope)

Jesus, that's harsh.

[The Fox]

He probably could have saved it but it took a deflection right in front of him.

This is far more down to the decision to drop both in-form full backs at the same time. Debuchy and Gibbs have been trash.

[Lucky]

This is worse than last years semi final

[gospvg]

Oh my god how did Ramsey not score that. Very good 2nd half game.

[Silent Runner]

Aaron? How?

[Lucky]

Theo's got to come on surely

[The Fox]

Theo's got to come on surely

I don't think he can because Debuchy is knackered and we have no right back on the bench. If your right back needs a lot of help, you don't want Theo in front of him.

[Lucky]

If we want to avoid penalties, or worse, we need to try something

[gospvg]

That was a great 2nd half of football but I expect Arsenal to finish it off in extra time.