Arsenal

[toythatkills]

This Giroud fella hasn't turned out too bad, has he? That goal today was the kind of thing I didn't think he had in his locker. And so many other nice moments, like being the only player who actually reacted to Ozil's free kick - if that had hit the post and come out Giroud was the only guy within a hundred miles of it. He really seems to know where to be and when to be there, it's a joy to watch. He's a totally different player to the one who joined us whose main skill was bundling the ball over the line with his arse and stuff.

[Gotters]

i was incredibly anti Giroud when he signed and just couldn't see the player he's become being a possibility after his first season.

I'd put him now in that group of strikers just behind the mega galactico's that go for £40m plus, and arguably they are mostly the pure sniffer kind of players, whereas he integrates so well into our style holding up play and bringing others into play.

He's pretty irreplaceable in the form he's got at present

[humdrum]

[Petrousgyre]

Ospina doing that great thing he does where he doesn't bother extending his arms when he dives. Bloke is toilet.

WIth Szczesney: P17 W7 D6 L4 A22 - 3 clean sheets, 1.29 goals per game conceded.

With Ospinaaaa: P11 W10 D0 L1 A7 - 5 clean sheets , 0.64 goals per game conceded.

[pinholestar]

I think Szceszny is the more naturally-gifted keeper but I don't quite understand why you dislike Ospina so much, Fox. He's taken his chance & done very well since he's come into the first team. Admittedly it's coincided with the rise of Coquelin & a general improvement in our defensive game management throughout the team, but the results speak for themselves & he's seemed pretty solid to my eyes.

[carlito]

I don't think that much of Ospina either. I think he Hollywoods a lot of saves that should be fairly routine and also regularly palms the ball into incredibly dangerous areas when he does make saves.

I think the chances created stat is probably more telling than the goals conceded stat when it comes to determining why we have tightened up at the back.

[Gotters]

I don't think that much of Ospina either. I think he Hollywoods a lot of saves that should be fairly routine and also regularly palms the ball into incredibly dangerous areas when he does make saves.

I think the chances created stat is probably more telling than the goals conceded stat when it comes to determining why we have tightened up at the back.

I agree, Ospina is another crack papered over cos it coincides with other events that lead to the defensive improvement. he's not a keeper anyone will win the title with.

[toythatkills]

Nor is Szczesny, though.

[Gotters]

Nor is Szczesny, though.

who said he was ? Wenger has a total blind spot with keepers, which I thought he'd finally rectified with Szczesny who I thought was going to be a young Petr Cech and our No1 for years - now though you can see he's mentally weak and hasn't got the attitude or temperament to push on and improve his game

[Steve007]

I think Szceszny is the more naturally-gifted keeper

Can't stand the bloke. He's a liability, makes the defence nervous and makes erratic laughable decisions particularly with ball distribution. He also costs us goals and more importantly points. I hope we never see him again because it's an awful keeper. He had one good season, the rest of his time at the club he has been a car crash.

Regarding the game on Saturday, there's nothing I love more than hammering Liverpool. It doesn't happen that often and I was delighted to see them giving a good hiding. Hope the momentum continues...

[Steve007]

I agree, Ospina is another crack papered over cos it coincides with other events that lead to the defensive improvement. he's not a keeper anyone will win the title with.

I can't think of any clangers he's made and the defence don't need to play with one eye on him like they have to do with Szceszny. With Szceszny the defenders were just waiting for their turn to be put needlessly under pressure by their own keeper.

Ospina is steady and decent. He's no Gianluigi Buffon, David Seaman or Peter Schmeichel, but who is?

[Petrousgyre]

I agree, Ospina is another crack papered over cos it coincides with other events that lead to the defensive improvement. he's not a keeper anyone will win the title with.

That's an odd sentiment given Arsenal's form with him in the team could comfortably be described as title winning. Clearly there's a number of contributing factors to the defensive solidity we've enjoyed of late but to dismiss Ospina's influence as coincidental seems a little unfair. I think he's made a few outstanding saves to keep us in games and has been a consistent and calming force. If nothing else and at the risk of agreeing with Steve, the defence in front of him seem much less skittish than they do with Chez at the helm.

[toythatkills]

who said he was ?

Nobody, specifically, but there's no point laying into Ospina when our other option is no better.

My point I guess is that if we were to lose a keeper, Ospina is a much better number two than Szczesny is a number one, and so there's really only one of them I'd want to replace.

[toythatkills]

Legit second. How the fuck have we pulled that off

[gooner4life]

This thread confuses me, first with the Wilshere bashing, now Ospina? I'd certainly take Petr Cech if he's available, but Ospina hasn't been at fault for any of the goals he's conceded, and he takes responsibility when needed, like against Palace, a few of the crosses in the second half would definitely have led to goals if Szczesny was in net.

[humdrum]

Strange to think that we are second with staying there in our own hands. Big games against Man Utd and Chelsea but still in our own hands.

It's important now with the position we are in to finish as high as possible and get automatic qualification for the champions league then get some transfers done early and start building for a proper push next season

That's not even thinking about the fa cup...

[Silent Runner]

Legit second. How the fuck have we pulled that off

Trying not to think about the cheap points thrown away - Utd at home and away to Liverpool still burns.

[The Fox]

WIth Szczesney: P17 W7 D6 L4 A22 - 3 clean sheets, 1.29 goals per game conceded.

With Ospinaaaa: P11 W10 D0 L1 A7 - 5 clean sheets , 0.64 goals per game conceded.

wtf sort of argument is this, come on. Szczesny was playing behind a back four and midfield that was all over the shop. Ospina has been playing in a settled team that's in form. Woj has had spells in a settled side where he was getting plenty of clean sheets (joint top in the league last season, don't forget).

Ospina is one of those play-it-safe types like Given who pretty much just stays on his line and shot stops. But then I've seen how slow he is to come off it so maybe that's a sensible strategy, I dunno. Carlito's point about his saves is spot on, and he also can kick it about as far as my deceased gran.

I don't think Szczesny is good enough anymore either really, but I can't see how anyone can think he isn't the better of the two, unless they literally can't remember his 2013 form. Or failing that, just the few games prior to the Southampton horrow show this year, where he was clearly better than any performance we've seen from Ospina.

Re: my 'dislike' of Ospina, I guess it's similar to my 'dislike' of Coquelin, stemming from people going way overboard based solely on stats. What games has Ospina had anything of note to do? Everton - where he was good (but imo still not as good as Szczesny has been in certain games this season), and Monaco - where he was shit and should have done better on at least two of the goals. Other than that he's pretty much had fuck all to do really. edit: Oh he did make a key save at the end vs Leicester tbf

Also the only reason we're talking about him is because of a comment I made about Henderson's penalty, but how can anyone dispute that he should save that once he's guessed the right way? He literally doesn't extend his arms properly!

[The Fox]

This thread confuses me, first with the Wilshere bashing, now Ospina?

About 80% of the reason we won't win the league is because we started playing a stupid system to try and shoehorn The Wilsh into the starting XI, and played like shit until Christmas because it didn't suit anyone else in the team. If we'd just largely stuck to last season's 4-2-3-1 with Arteta-Ramsey we'd quite possibly be home and dry at this point.

Obviously I'm not blaming Wilshere for that - Wenger was wrong to implement that system change at that point in time, against lowly opposition that didn't merit that caution - but it's still a fairly damning indictment. Even more so when he himself - playing in a system that seemed built around him - only had one good individual performance vs City.

To be honest, like Szczesny, I'm just tired of having the same glaring issues with Jack after all this time. It's bloody obvious where the weak points are in his game but he just doesn't seem to have made any real progress in ironing out the flaws. The glass ankles don't help on that front, of course.

He has time on his side obviously and is hugely talented, but at the end of the day he's on £100k/week and for me he's currently poor value for that money. I'm honestly curious as to why huge Wilshere fans such as yourself seem to be so big on him right now. Obviously there's an affinity with him being at the club since he was a kid but surely there has to be more to it than that? I just can't remember much good from him in the past 3 years really. Man City this season. Marseille last season. West Brom second half (first half he was utterly atrocious) last season. Swansea the year before. It's not a lot of good games though really is it?

edit: one final point on Ospina from the post I quoted, which somehow cites Palace away as a good game from him? Seriously, watch it back, he was shaky as fuck. Then compare it do Szczesny from Palace away last season. Night and day.

[Petrousgyre]

wtf sort of argument is this, come on. Szczesny was playing behind a back four and midfield that was all over the shop. Ospina has been playing in a settled team that's in form.

It wasn't settled directly before he came into the side. As I mentioned in a later post I'm not imagining this run is all down to Ospina but to reduce his role to a coincidence that's mostly had 'fuck all to do' seems maybe a touch irrational.

[The Fox]

It's not irrational - look at the games he's had clean sheets in. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but Monaco away, West Ham and Stoke at home spring to mind as games where he was twiddling his thumbs for most of it. Oh and Hull as well. Szczesny has barely had that luxury this season.

I'm not a Szczesny fanboy by a long stretch but for me, even though he was in a comparatively dysfunctional side, he's had more good games on a personal level than Ospina has. Everton is the only game where I've come away thinking Ospina has had a genuinely impressive match, but even then I don't think he was as good as Woj was vs, for instance, QPR.

Look at the amount of Szczesny games where the midfield and defence were bordering on shambolic, and contrast it to the team performance with Ospina. Big Dave has had two games by my reckoning where the team has played very poorly and he's been under a lot of pressure: Spurs & Monaco. In both games he completely wilted under the strain and put in a very weak individual performance.

At the end of the day though it's hard to be definitive until we see Szczesny playing in this current side. If he comes in and they all suddenly start the keystone cops routine then I'll hold my hands up, but I don't see it personally.

Ultimately though I quite liked it when Giroud didn't have to retreat to our own half to win headers from goal kicks.

[BlinkyBear]

[The Fox]

Matic has been poor since Christmas to be fair. Fabregas has infected him.

PS. get out

[BlinkyBear]

Matic has been poor since Christmas to be fair. Fabregas has infected him.

PS. get out

Hah! Can't believe that there's people who don't think that Coq has been anything other than brilliant.

You see Vinny tonight btw? Doing a stand up job of showing everyone the 'man behind the curtain' at the moment; utter pony again and seemingly bang on for at least one gaff a game at the moment.

[The Fox]

I explained in detail my 'beef' with the Coq. I think he's done very well, like, but we need someone better on the ball and off it than him long-term. We can't just have a destroyer, it's too limiting.

It's alright when Santi is playing CM because he's absolutely unbelievable on the ball which takes pressure off Coq in that regard, but we can't always rely on that. Maybe if we had a fit Arteta available for games/periods where we needed more midfield control, it'd be ok, but I don't think we can't count on that.

IMO at the highest level those destroyer types are done, *unless* you have a passer in there with them ie, Bender & Gundogan, to which our equivalent would be Coq & Arteta. Problem is, that removes a CM spot for Ramsey/Wilshere and I don't think that'll happen. I can guarantee you a midfield of Coq & Ramsey won't work because neither is much good at building up play, and both struggle against pressing. If you play Coq it has to be with Arteta (best build up but probably too negative for Arsene), Wilshere (decent build up, good vs pressing), or Cazorla (same as JW pretty much).

I guess I just look at Coq compared to say Kroos, Martinez, Busquets, the really top dogs playing holding roles atm, and his positioning off the ball is so much worse (especially when we are in possession), as his ability on it. I know I sound really harsh on him, but I do hope we buy in that position this summer because while he's very good at some stuff, he's too weak at other stuff to be undisputed first choice imo. I'm not *totally* sold on Schneiderlin but I think he might be the best available option and if we move Flamini on then him, Coq and Arteta is a very good and varied group to choose from. Alternatively, we get an Arteta replacement in like Illarramendi or Gundogan.

And yeah, absolutely loving Vinnie's work of late. Bloke is a shambles.

[Gotters]

Why arent some of you just realising we are in our traditional end of season push that lets Wenger, and anybody not critical, accept that the whole squad is exceptional and doesnt need improving in the summer.

Sport (or anything for that matter) at a high level should be about constant examination and reflection, you should learn as much from victories as you do from defeats and pay attention to what went wrong even in a win.

I agree that Coquelin and Ospina have been better in their respective positions than the previous players, it doesnt mean they should still be in them come next august if better options can be sourced. Good article on Squawker the other day said Coq could just have proved to Wenger how important that role is and he should drop a large sum on an upgrade (like Schneiderlin)

[Dude Ranch]

"Coquelin has made 35 tackles and 33 interceptions in the Premier League this season. Mikel Arteta and Mathieu Flamini have made 27 tackles and 25 interceptions between them despite playing a combined total of six hours more football. On Saturday, once again, no team-mate made more tackles (four) or interceptions (six). It has helped Arsenal win 11 of the 13 Premier League games that Coquelin has started."

Very limiting.

[The Fox]

Haha Jesus Christ, you are literally listing the traits of a midfield destroyer to counter my claim that Coquelin is just a midfield destroyer, which is limiting. Great stuff.

[gooner4life]

Coquelin is that and much more, he's been very good in possession, he likes a tackle, he doesnt get booked every game, I saw him play many times back in the day for the youth team, he's changed his game entirely since then and is now making better use of the fact he has a great engine and physically is very strong.

what hasn't changed is his use of the ball is excellent, he plays it safe when necessary, but he's happy to play a forward pass, and generally very few of his passes go astray or get intercepted.

[The Fox]

Ok, I think his passing is fairly mediocre personally but each to their own. He's better than Flamini in that regard but that's about as far as it goes for me. Not a patch on Arteta at offering for the ball and controlling the tempo (but obviously much better than him at other things).

If we were to buy Schneiderlin though that is a very nice mix of traits. Arteta has the best passing of the three and most intelligent positioning off the ball. Coquelin is great at aggressively winning the ball back higher up, and is good in the air for his size. And Schneiderlin would be sort of an all rounder who could also play a box-to-box role alongside either of the other guys if Ramsey/Wilshere are out.