Arsenal

[toythatkills]

He probably should fuck off somewhere better. He deserves better than this.

[The Fox]

Wouldn't begrudge him handing in a transfer request tbh

[Dude Ranch]

Time for a new manager.

[hercules]

I'm feeling the same dude ranch.

[The Fox]

Eh we'll probably still finish third on virtue of being slightly less shit than Utd and Liverpool*. It's not terribly enjoyable though (aside from some inevitable gold on ArsenalFanTV later).

*Assuming Southampton's lack of depth tells at some point, but who knows!

[toythatkills]

Is Southampton's lack of depth likely to cause them more problems than ours is causing us?

[Steve007]

Eh we'll probably still finish third on virtue of being slightly less shit than Utd and Liverpool*. It's not terribly enjoyable though (aside from some inevitable gold on ArsenalFanTV later).

*Assuming Southampton's lack of depth tells at some point, but who knows!

I don't want to finish third or fourth. I'm never happy with stumbling into third or fourth and 15 points or so behind the teams above. I want to be challenging for the title. I want to see the club moving forward so that we are challenging the likes of Chelsea.

I know it's important financially to finish in the top four for Champions League cash, but we are just in the Champions League to make up the numbers. We are not a club that is capable of winning the competition and won't be capable of challenging for major honours unless some of that spare cash is used strengthening the team. More worryingly we won't achieve jack shit with Kroenke and that has-been Wenger steering the ship.

[Steve007]

Is Southampton's lack of depth likely to cause them more problems than ours is causing us?

Southampton's players give 100%, which can carry them through tough times. If all our players gave as much effort as Sanchez does we'd probably not be too worried about Wenger's tactical ineptness as we's not be dropping as many points as we are doing right now. We can't even take a decent fucking corner. What is Steve Bould doing exactly? I was so happy when he got promoted, I thought he would sort out the defence and work on some set pieces, but it looks like Wenger has restricted him to just laying the cones out.

[Gabe]

I don't want to finish third or fourth. I'm never happy with stumbling into third or fourth and 15 points or so behind the teams above. I want to be challenging for the title. I want to see the club moving forward so that we are challenging the likes of Chelsea.

I know it's important financially to finish in the top four for Champions League cash, but we are just in the Champions League to make up the numbers. We are not a club that is capable of winning the competition and won't be capable of challenging for major honours unless some of that spare cash is used strengthening the team. More worryingly we won't achieve jack shit with Kroenke and that has-been Wenger steering the ship.

I know I'm not an Arsenal fan, but I posted something similar to that in here at least a year/18 months ago. I think I also said I couldn't see you winning the league under Wenger again, and I don't think you will. So, an outsider, I agree with you.

[The Fox]

Would have been good if he'd been able to bow out after the FA Cup win but I don't think it was viable. Who was there to take over who was available? I'm sure that must have affected his decision to an extent.

[emjay2kay]

Who would you want if Wenger did go? I'm assuming Klopp is still held in high regard (as opposed to now being considered a rung below Alan Pardew or something, oh we fickle football fans) and he always seemed the obvious choice to me if you want a fresh Wenger-alike. I don't know how long he fancies sticking around at Dortmund for. He's surely got an uphill battle now, and I don't just mean this season, to overhaul Munich. It can't be fun getting close and then having your nearest rivals just hoover up your best players all the time*.

*Although, having written that I now realise my obvious error in suggesting a move to Arsenal.

[Gabe]

I wonder if that was the main concern for all parties - perhaps Wenger himself recognises that it is time to move on, but wants to leave the club is safe hands? Whilst many can (and do) criticise his management these days, I don't think anybody could ever question his devotion to the long-term interests of the club as a whole, and maintaining the stability he has overseen.

Perhaps the recent contract he signed has a break clause in it, should a manager of sufficient calibre become available? I would imagine he'd have some input at least, if not being the kingmaker (for right or wrong).

[Rev]

Would have been good if he'd been able to bow out after the FA Cup win but I don't think it was viable. Who was there to take over who was available? I'm sure that must have affected his decision to an extent.

Is Koeman that much less qualified than Wenger was when he was hired? I'm not sure that a top-top manager is the requirement.

I feel bad because it clearly is unlucky with injuries, but if you're always unlucky just assume the worst for once. I wanted him to leave after the FA cup and he should have done. This might be a league-winning attack, just, but everything behind that is relegation fodder. It's embarrassing.

[Lucky]

While there can never be any guarantees that a new manager would be a success, a less experienced man would have a bit of a gamble thrown in too. Someone who's been in charge at a top club, has managed in the CL would, at least on paper for what it's worth, be less of a risk than someone who's never managed at the top or the CL for example.

There's no way of knowing if Koeman would be any more of a success at Arsenal than say Klopp for example but he would definitely be a bit more of a risky option. Klopp has won the league in Germany before, which entails pitting his wits against the mighty Bayern, he's managed huge CL games against the best teams around whereas Koeman hasn't quite reached that level yet.

Easy to look back now, but Moyes was a huge risk for Utd. He'd never managed at the very top before, he'd never managed a team in the CL, he'd never managed top top players before and never managed the type of budget that Utd have. While he did had PL experience, that was maybe it.

As mentioned, AW had no experience of any of this either when he came to Arsenal but he's won trophies and is a big time manager whatever seems to be going on lately. He's been a success. Unbeaten season, league titles, doubles etc..

An eventual replacement for AW??

'Safer' options: Klopp, Ancelotti or Pep,

'Maybe a bit risky' options: Blanc or Simeone might be more of a risk than the three above but Simeone especially will soon be in the 'safer' category if he isn't already that is.

'Risky' options: Deschamps, Koeman, Frank De Boer or Martinez

'even riskier' options: Vieira or Bergkamp. Dragan Stojkovic keeps getting mentioned but he'll be a huge mental risk.

Whatever happens, it will be a very delicate transition which could very easily go either way. One way or the other it's getting closer and we should just be a little careful what we wish for.

That said, it is inevitable and if handled correctly the right appointment could see us jump up a level or two rather than falter like Utd have after SAF.

A bit exciting really, because lately (the last few years) things have been pretty samey and predictable.

[Rev]

Obviously there is a risk, but I do think a manager who won everything as a player (as Koeman did) and is used to working to that level and to a broadly similar philosophy is a much safer choice than Moyes who had never experienced that level at all.

I also can't see Klopp being quite the right answer. He's definitely a good manager, but I'm not sure he's a good manager to take over from Wenger. Apart from the fact he's used to a wholly injured squad, it's a completely different philosophy that only Sanchez and Welbeck seem even vaguely suited to.

[Lucky]

Klopp could be a very possible option.

Pep is probably just wishful thinking & I'm not sure how we sell Arsenal to Ancelotti and convince him he should leave Real and come to us. If he gets the sack in the next couple of years however then you never know.

Simeone could be seen as a bit of a loose cannon for Arsenal.

That leaves Blanc, Deschamps, Koeman, Frank De Boer or Martinez maybe.

Klopp could be the best option available. Unless I'm missing someone.

[Silent Runner]

Rudi Garcia?

[SeanR]

Brooklyn beckham signs for the arsenal.

[g wings]

is he available on saturday?

[toythatkills]

Obviously there is a risk, but I do think a manager who won everything as a player (as Koeman did) and is used to working to that level and to a broadly similar philosophy is a much safer choice than Moyes who had never experienced that level at all.

If you take the three most successful PL managers of the last 20 years to be Ferguson, Wenger, and Mourinho and then look at their playing careers, you won't exactly find much remarkable.

Playing in and managing a football team require vastly different skillsets, and it amazes me how few pure managers there seem to be in football generally.

[Mars]

Reports (I know) that the back-room staff are very unhappy at the way the team is being run, use of players and strategy, etc. Ian Wright, on 606 last Sunday, mentioned that Steve Bould had made several player recommendations to Wenger which were all ignored. Bould must be going absolutely potty at recent performances as I can't believe that he would be in charge of briefing tactics and us still defending like complete fuckwits from the front 2 backwards.

[Rev]

If you take the three most successful PL managers of the last 20 years to be Ferguson, Wenger, and Mourinho and then look at their playing careers, you won't exactly find much remarkable.

Playing in and managing a football team require vastly different skillsets, and it amazes me how few pure managers there seem to be in football generally.

It's not something I'd insist on, but when there are a few candidates and one has experience of being at Barcelona or AC Milan early-nineties-ish has to be a benefit.

[The Fox]

Reports (I know) that the back-room staff are very unhappy at the way the team is being run, use of players and strategy, etc. Ian Wright, on 606 last Sunday, mentioned that Steve Bould had made several player recommendations to Wenger which were all ignored. Bould must be going absolutely potty at recent performances as I can't believe that he would be in charge of briefing tactics and us still defending like complete fuckwits from the front 2 backwards.

This sounds like classic 'kick them while they're down' nonsense tbh. What is Bould doing making player recommendations? He's not a scout. And he knew full well what Arsene was like when he opted to take the No2 job so I can't see why he should be getting annoyed at anything. Wenger has always had a reputation for being stubborn and belligerent (how much that is actually deserved is hard to say) so if he acts that way about something it shouldn't come as a surprise to a man who's known him for 15+ years.

[Gotters]

Not to fret, BBC gossip reports we have a £20m war chest for Jan.

That isnt a war chest, its an upfront downpayment and agent fee on 1 decent player.

It will though still get you a couple of obscure mid level french league signings.

[spork]

It's not something I'd insist on, but when there are a few candidates and one has experience of being at Barcelona or AC Milan early-nineties-ish has to be a benefit.

Mark Hughes?

[Space Renegade Ulala]

Kinda getting Brian Clough vibes now. Not that I think we're in danger of relegation any time soon, just a long slide into perpetual mediocrity and with it the tarnishing of a great man's reputation.

[Rev]

Mark Hughes?

Yeah, there are a lot of managers in that pack like him - Gullit, Rijkaard, Donadoni. Ones that are almost good and yet...Not. But I suspect that is a better average than comparable systems would get.

[Mars]

This sounds like classic 'kick them while they're down' nonsense tbh. What is Bould doing making player recommendations? He's not a scout. And he knew full well what Arsene was like when he opted to take the No2 job so I can't see why he should be getting annoyed at anything. Wenger has always had a reputation for being stubborn and belligerent (how much that is actually deserved is hard to say) so if he acts that way about something it shouldn't come as a surprise to a man who's known him for 15+ years.

Yeah, I get that... it just seemed like we genuinely took a step forward in defense* when he joined

(* in a line, with our hands up, etc, etc.)

[The Fox]

I just think he's bollocksed up by trying to implement this system change when a) he didn't get any sort of pre-season to test it and get people accustomed to it, and b) when he doesn't really have all the necessary parts to implement it. With our poverty options at DM and CB it was foolhardy and now it's ravaged the functionality of the whole side. Ramsey and Per are obvious examples of people whose form has suffered as a result (partially anyway; I don't mean to absolve those players of all responsibility for how shit they're playing).

[pinholestar]

Yeah, I'd broadly agree with that assessment. It's just fucking infuriating when last year one of the glaring deficiencies was a lack of pace upfront, so we sign Alexis & Welbeck, & then this year the change in system & injuries leads to a drop in confidence & collective defensive meltdown. I maintain that the potential in this team is huge if it could just click, but Wenger seems to almost create problems where they shouldn't be with his stubbornness. It's the hope that kills you.