Arsenal

[Lucky]

Once Theo is fit I hope we see

-------------Welbeck

Sanchez --- Ozil --- Theo

-----Arteta --- Ramsey/Wilshere

You can't drop Ramsey but on the other hand on current form you can't drop Wilshere. Like others here have said though, we could actually rest a player on the odd occasion with the likes of Ramsey, Wilshere, Theo, Cazorla, Podolski, OX, Rosicky, Sanchez, Ozil, Arteta & Flamini sitting out the odd game.

Edit: This is assuming everyone is fit and we even get the option.

[The Fox]

I swear he scored a last minute winner again Palace. I must have a different concept of poor performances. I haven't watched the last two games so am not best placed to comment on form. Just all sounds a bit scapegoat to me. Ramseys development from shite player to regular goal scorer has been incredible.

No one hates Ramsey, but the fact is he's suffering in his new position higher up the pitch. It's not just that though; there are elements to his play this season where he's trying too hard to do something brilliant, and generally overcomplicating things. He's also pretty much given up on getting involved in build up play, or helping out with defensive stuff. That could be a system issue again though.

Wilshere?! He benefits from playing further forward but it's to the detriment of Özil & Ramsey's effectiveness as far as I can see. Would love to hear Wenger's thinking behind it because I can't see what the intention is at all.

Yep the 4-1-4-1 suits Wilshere, and it's probably not a coincidence that we've seen some decent performances from him. Problem is, it's currently detrimental to Ramsey and Ozil in particular, mostly because those central attacking areas get so congested. It's also bad for the defence because they're getting appallingly negligent protection from midfield.

Wilshere is injured now, so maybe we will go back to basics with 4-2-3-1 against Villa. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozil benched for that game, with Ox and Cazorla coming in instead.

[gizmo1990]

Only saw the first half hour but we were terrible. Dortmund had an incredible work rate and just harried us all over the pitch. And when we did have the ball we were sloppy in possession and making panicky passes. It was embarrassing.

[Steve007]

Why's yous all hatin on Ramsey. He's got 2 prem league goals and an assist, scored the winner in the cup final too...

Last years success has gone to his head and he now thinks he's Zidane, Bergkamp, Zola & Ray Parlour all combined into one.

[Space Renegade Ulala]

For the love of god, can't we just play a normal formation that the players are all familiar and comfortable with? FFS, Arsene.

[The Fox]

Just remembered Wilshere didn't play vs Leicester and we still persisted with 4-1-4-1.

lol

[Rev]

4-1-4-1 is a fairly rubbish formation at the best of times due to the way it forcibly isolates the striker, but when it's being used seemingly specifically to put the biggest signing and the best player of last year out of position...No. Just no.

[hercules]

When we beat city in the community shield didn't we play 4-2-3-1?

[Rev]

Yeah, but we didn't have our natural defensive winger* available then.

*Ozil.

[hercules]

Just curious as we played well that day, but have been awful since.

[Rev]

Probably because the players knew where they should be.

[hercules]

But that's why i don't get him persisting with this rubbish. Also don't get why if he is going to persist with it, why he doesn't play rosicky or chambo

[Lucky]

It's really confusing, I mean it's not like AW to be stubborn is it

[hercules]

No i don't understand why after the community shield he changed it and is now sticking to it?! You would assume he would be stubborn and stick to the 4-2-3-1 not this shambles!

[The Fox]

Nope we played 4-1-4-1 in the Community Shield. Exactly the same as recent games but Sanogo for Welbeck and Cazorla for Ozil.

Hard to emphasise how terrible City were in that game tbf.

[hercules]

Ah wasn't too sure as I was at work that day and only caught snippets of the match. Question is when will winger give up with this experiment?

[The Fox]

I guess he thinks if it clicks and he gets Ramsey/Ozil/Wilshere/Alexis/Cazorla/Welbeck firing then we'll score goals for fun. That's a sound theory. 4-1-4-1 could be great, potentially.

Problem is I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime soon. Ozil isn't really stuck out wide at the moment, he is moving around a fair bit...

!!!STATS KLAXON!!! http://statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ARSvMCYH1.gif

...but the problem is last season he started inside as the No10 and moved wide, which created lovely amounts of space and countless opportunities for overlapping. This season he's normally starting wide and drifting centrally, which only really serves to clog up the middle of the park.

That said, the system tweak doesn't excuse everything. Ramsey has been ridiculously sloppy in his overall play this season, especially last night, to the point where you have to say he has genuinely been our worst player this season, despite a couple of nice flashes. Ozil has been fairly peripheral and looks lacking in something...confidence? Fitness? Motivation? All of the above?! Cazorla has been largely rubbish when in the side. Alexis is working hard but has had a couple of shockingly poor games. I don't think all of this can be attributed to the system or the manager.

Look at the Dormund goals last night - we can't possibly attribute them to playing 4-1-4-1. Arteta and the defenders should be getting more assistance than in a 4-2-3-1, not less. The midfielders just aren't doing what they're meant to be. The cohesiveness between Arteta/Flamini-Ramsey-Wilshere has been absolutely appalling so far. Look at Aguero's goal at the weekend - so many basic mistakes. Nacho gets caught high up the pitch, then Ramsey lets Navas go past him, and Flamini does the same with Aguero. That's not a system problem, it's players failing to do basic stuff.

Ultimately we haven't played well on a consistent basis since before Christmas 2013, irrespective of formation or personnel.

edit: smarter people than me are saying the 4-1-4-1 is because we're trying to change to more aggressive pressing from the front, but Ozil would be useless at that so he's moved wider. That makes sense I guess, we definitely have been pressing high and won the ball high up vs City several times. Didn't do it against Dortmund at all, think we were tired and they are masters at counter pressing.

[Dude Ranch]

I just think we're shit cos Wenger hasn't got a clue how to prepare us for games or change us mid game. Good managers exploit this with relish. He's delivered two potentially brilliant big money signings, totally failed with one of them and utterly neglected the rest of the squad. We're at least two defenders short. Arteta and Flamini should have been offloaded. Our striker selection is a bad joke. Same old same old. We're playing at it. You only need to look at Chelsea to see how to aggressively and seriously go about winning things.

I'm playing my joker early this season. Wenger out!

[dizogg]

Who would you get in out of curiosity?

[Dude Ranch]

Fuck knows. I don't really want him out but the same shit gets tiring. I'm not getting any enjoyment from it at all right now.

I look at the younger managers, like Rogers for example, and they look up for it. Klopp, Bilic. They'd inspire me. Not necessarily those names but that type. Everyone likes Wenger but he's making the same mistakes with the same approach.

Bergkamp?

[Lucky]

Pep?

If he fancied the PL in a couple of years or so, who knows?

Long shot I know, but stranger things have happened.

[toythatkills]

No they haven't.

[Lucky]

Welbeck to Arsenal? That was a pretty strange one that a couple of months ago was as good as impossible.

[El Pibe]

5Live were running with 'it was all Welbeck's fault' - assume that wasn't the case, then?

[pinholestar]

Err, no. He actually played OK but he did miss a good chance for the second game in a row. But yeah, the whole team shit the bed collectively so he definitely shouldn't be singled out for particular blame.

[carlito]

BBC are running real cunto stories at the moment between the "I wouldn't have signed him if I'd been in the country" debacle and now the "Arsenal lost because Wellbeck missed three chances".

If everyone has taken their chances we'd have lost 11-3.

[hauk]

I was really hoping Wenger would sign on for one more year and then bow out gracefully and we could get in a new manager. Now he's signed on until 2017 that's not gonna happen. I would love to see Klopp, but not sure that would happen. Roberto Martinez would be my choice to replace Wenger, or maybe Rudi Garcia (as long as he didn't bring Gervinho with him!).

[Dude Ranch]

Gervinho is tearing it up apparently.

[The Fox]

Yeah but if we started a rllmuk Arsenal thread team and registered it in Italy, we'd be tearing it up in Serie A too.

As you can imagine, I'm at my best as an inverted anterior trequartista.

[The Fox]

Tim Stillman's latest arseblog column is good. Discusses the stuff I mentioned before about us pressing from the front.

"Özil does have great subtlety and performs worthy actions that escape the eyes of us layman on occasion. But ideally, that barely detectable tidiness ought to be the icing on the cake rather than the upper limits of what he offers. It should be window dressing on top of the more noticeable and decisive elements of his play. My own theory for Wenger shifting Özil into a wider position assumes a stylistic change rather than a systematic one. With Welbeck and Alexis now on board, I think Wenger wants to turn Arsenal into a team that harries and presses opposition defences again.

With energetic figures such as Wilshere and Ramsey hunting in packs behind Welbeck and Alexis, Wenger feels he can do this and Jack Wilshere seemed to suggest as much in an interview with the official website this week. Whilst he’s not the work shy layabout that many would have you believe, it’s fair to say Özil hardly fits the profile of a player that harries centre halves into errors. Wilshere fits this more transitional style in central midfield because he carries the ball so well. After the home match with Bayern Munich back in March, Wenger explained that he kept Özil on when the Gunners went down to ten men because he carries the ball so well for the counter attack.

In fairness, both goals against City had their origins in Arsenal winning the ball high up the pitch. The issue however, is that defensively, this system doesn’t really suit our captain and vice-captain and Mertesacker and Arteta’s lack of mobility is more of an issue. Every player has weaknesses and every good team simply covers those weaknesses as well as they can with a blend of attributes. It’s fair to say Arsenal aren’t doing that at the moment and they look a little lost. Arsenal didn’t win a single tackle in Dortmund’s half on Tuesday evening after all."