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cubeadvance

By cubeadvance
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Dude Ranch

Dude Ranch

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edit: oh you deleted it. Well I can delete this reply too if you don't want beef, I'm not here to get into spats with other Arsenal fans. I just didn't see what I'd written to warrant that response really :/

I only deleted it cos I knew how it sounded, we've been here before so I'm happy to disagree. You've quoted me which is probably a good thing, it's what I said so dunno, fair enough I suppose.

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The Fox

The Fox

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Meh deleted it.

I just want Mesut to be unequivocally loved. He seems like a nice lad and I love the fact he was a big name who took a punt and chose us, you know? I really hope he turns it up a few notches this season, it's just a shame it might take a while because of his World Cup exertions.

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Gotters

Gotters

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He'll always be a divisive style of player - the good engine every blade of grass brigade will never take to him, and the stats brigade will point to esoteric things like final third passes completed (ignoring the fact they all went backwards)

He does need to look a little more interested than he often does and has been disappointing iterms of game changing contribution for a player costing £42m

I hope he does well but he'll always be hard to love i suspect

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The Fox

The Fox

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I just think as a fanbase we've been a bit shit with him? I dunno. Personally I think the fact he kinda did the opposite of Cesc, in being sold by Wenger's vision for the club and thus choosing us, should be a big thing in his favour when it comes to how he's viewed. And he's been getting a hard time in the press from like three games into his Arsenal career, and I wonder why we haven't rallied against that a bit more, and defended one of our own instead of joining in with the mud slinging.

I'm not saying never criticise the guy when it's due, and I'm not saying everyone should think he's been brilliant (he hasn't). But I do think we've been a bit crap with him, personally.

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Arc'Tan'Gent

Arc'Tan'Gent

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If you look at pot 2 teams dortmund are fine, their ranking is based on a disbanded team and dont think they are what they were

Well, last year they finished second in the league to a Bayern Munich team that only lost twice all season (once to Dortmund), and were runners-up to them in the German Cup, too. Notwithstanding the fact they lost in the Champions League quarter-finals to the eventual winners, Real Madrid.

Not to be treated lightly, then. At all.

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toythatkills

toythatkills

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Fuck me, he's not even two weeks off his sun lounger yet! Ridiculously harsh to criticise him for fitness when he was quite rightly given an extended break by the club and has had no pre-season to speak of.

I do wonder how long we can keep using this as an excuse. I think I want Ozil to succeed more than any other player we've had who's struggled a bit, but we've been putting his performances down to "lack of fitness" and "carrying a knock" since the middle of last season.

Anyway, CL group is definitely one we should be getting out of, but hopefully the team has gelled a fair bit more than from last night's showing, because a performance like that might not be enough to get past Dortmund and Galatasaray.

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The Fox

The Fox

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I do wonder how long we can keep using this as an excuse. I think I want Ozil to succeed more than any other player we've had who's struggled a bit, but we've been putting his performances down to "lack of fitness" and "carrying a knock" since the middle of last season.

Is that true? He looked knackered at times last season, especially after Christmas, but most that was in line with Silva/Mata's first seasons too. Seems to be a La Liga acclimatisation thing maybe? We really did play him a lot, he even played against Coventry!

This season he's clearly not match fit yet, like I said, it's only a couple of weeks ago that he was on the beach. He's had no pre-season whatsoever. Surely that's a totally valid reason for him lacking sharpness.

Silva and Mata seem the benchmarks to look at. They both did a lot better in their second years in terms of the physical demands, though they didn't have the summer exertions Ozil has had, playing in every game of the World Cup. If he's still struggling later on then the excuse probably ceases to be valid.

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Mars

Mars

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Re: Ozil - that little tip-tap he did just before the missed Chamberlain chance was sublime - completely aware of the opportunity to indirectly set up a goal in a position in the opposite direction to where he was playing the ball and completely writing his marker out of the move. Eyes in the back of his head, seeing play a few seconds ahead of his team mates and the opposition. I agree his break forward later in the game was wank, he should have played Sanchez though. However, I simply cannot understand why people have such a go (not just point out when he could have done better) when he is so obviously a great player, who is only human and obviously going to make the odd bad call. The black/white thing some of our fans* (couldn't care less about fans of other clubs) have going on drives me nuts.

Same with Giroud.... "He's shit". "Well, he can occasionally disappoint but he scored 22 goals last season whilst leading the line for most of it". "He's shit." OKAY THEN.

* all over the place, I don't just mean in here.

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Mars

Mars

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P.S. Fenton, plus Sanchez, Chamberlain, etc running onto balls from Ozil, linking in with bursting runs from Wilshere/Ramsey is what we're working towards. I think Ozil was played out wide yesterday because Cazorla has more central discipline, which we needed in that position with Arteta & Ramsey out. There have been some moans because of his defensive wing play, but they would be nothing compared to if he had let people run through him in central midfield.

The duplicate/pairing of attacking options, who are almost clones in some respects, really excites me and will lead to some amazing moments based on previous examples... Ramsey/Wilshere, Ozil/Cazorla, Chamberlain/Fenton.

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Dude Ranch

Dude Ranch

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I've spent tens of thousands folowing Arsenal over the years so if I feel like questioning, say, 150k per week Mesut Ozil I will. He's just a topical example. I'm loyal to Arsenal and I always will be but I can't be taken for granted and no fans should be. I'm not sure why I should feel somehow grateful for being part of the crowd funding of these dream, millionaire lifestyles. We all love football and I believe it adds a lot to our lives but come on. I think I've changed as I've got older and football has changed too. Bring back the days of Charlie George, more or less stepping off the terrace and into the team, sweeping the stands, polishing the pros boots and getting the bus to training.

As fans we're not entitled to success but we deserve respect and effort.

4
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JDubYes

JDubYes

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When you say questioning though, are you referring to being critical on a forum, booing in the stands, what? Everyone's entitled to be critical, especially about something they've paid for, but my point is that people who decide to whine and boo anytime anything goes at all wrong instead of trying to offer positive reinforcement annoy me, and likely don't help the situation on the pitch either. While there's still something to be had from a game, surely it's better to try and gee the players up, get a positive feeling going, not boo, get on their back and try and, what, try and shame them into playing harder?

As far as what we deserve, I think the only thing we're owed when we pay to watch a football match is probably to watch a football match. Any team with any sense is going to put out as good a product as possible, in order to guarantee the fans keep coming back, but beyond that... I don't know. I appreciate the notion that there's some sacred bond between fans, players and club, but increasingly the cynical side of me thinks it's a naive notion, and, if it was ever true, is less and less.the case these days, especially with the bigger teams.

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