Arsenal

[The Fox]

Darren Bent 3:16

[pinholestar]

I wish I was more confident about Wednesday, but I have a horrible feeling about it. Still, we've picked ourselves up admirably following bad results so far this season, so there's really no excuse.

[Lucky]

Not sure what to think about Wednesday. We should really win, and I hope we do, against what is a poor Utd team. It's just that I'm never confident when it comes to Utd, home or away.

[The Fox]

Apparently we've been rocked by the massive crisis news that Fabianski has decided to leave in the summer.

Honestly, some of these journalists, man. You'd think Arsene Wenger was banging their wives AND their sisters the way some of them carry on. Can you imagine anyone writing a story about Mourinho being plunged into crisis because Hilario has announced he's going to be leaving Chelsea?

[hercules]

Viviano can't be any good either as he hasn't even got a game yet. Reports saying sagna is off too which is a shame, we need to buy a few players this summer, more than I reckon we will actually sign sadly. As for wed. Rosicky has to start in my opinion, he's a big game player and will help speed up our play.

[The Fox]

Reports about Sagna change every week. Naturally after a result like Saturday, the narrative is going to change to him leaving because certain people like to stick the knife in. Fuck knows what's actually going on. You're right that we'll need a few players in the summer though (1-2 keepers, centre back, possibly a right back, ideally a defensive midfielder, and a striker).

Rosicky will surely start on Wednesday. I really don't want to see Arteta-Wilshere again, I like that pairing only marginally more than I like Arteta-Flamini. Arteta is a good player but he's too slow to be left on his own against a team with as much attacking verve as Liverpool (and, potentially if they sort their shit out, United), and Wilshere leaves him high and dry time and time again. It's not by chance that before he got injured Ramsey had performed the most successful tackles in the league, despite still managing to get forward plenty. Wilshere is a worse partner for Arteta in every way, sadly: he doesn't have Ramsey's strength or tackling ability, he's poor at covering full backs (something Arteta struggles with), and he doesn't open up passing options like Ramsey either, who is *always* showing for the ball. It's just such a shame that he got injured.

And his absence impacts our attacking play too. Without Ramsey or Theo, there's no one moving ahead of Ozil. He played like a twat on Saturday and he's certainly not in top form (even if some criticism prior to Saturday has been way OTT), but I don't think it's a coincidence that this dip of his is coming when the only two players who actually make runs in front of him are both out. Giroud has literally two runs in his repertoire, which is two more than Podolski.

[Lucky]

Arteta, Ozil, Cazorla, Rosicky & Giroud will surely start. Then it's just one out of AOC and Wilshere. Probably AOC to start.

Also, Gibbs will also probably start.

[Gotters]

well call me the optimist but I've just shelled out £187 for a pair of seats against the Bavarians. seems like lots of fans not optimistic and shoving them back up via ticket exchange

dunno whats up with the swansea sale today but back to that crappy old system where you can't select your seats, I'm 6'5" and won't buy if I can't get end of row.

[The Fox]

I think I need to watch Wilshere from 2010/11 to try and see how he/the team played. I mean, I remember Song as being positionally retarded (although that got worse in 2011/12), so was Jack just sitting much more and driving forward much less than he does now? Or is it just that Song was faster/more athletic than Arteta so was able to cover errors easier?

[Rev]

I think I need to watch Wilshere from 2010/11 to try and see how he/the team played. I mean, I remember Song as being positionally retarded (although that got worse in 2011/12), so was Jack just sitting much more and driving forward much less than he does now? Or is it just that Song was faster/more athletic than Arteta so was able to cover errors easier?

Sitting more, but I think that he was getting more instruction to sit as well. In Football Manager terms, we're lining up more like this:

-----x------

--x--O--x--

----W------

------A----

x--x---x--x

Rather than:

-----x------

--x--x----x

-----------

---W--S----

x--x---x--x

As we were then. I really think that Wilshere is a great attacking midfielder, and a decent defensive midfielder and a really, really shit midfielder. He spends all his time clashing with others due to not knowing what he should be doing. (Literally, when he tackled AOC against Liverpool.) It's a very Wenger thing to do, and totally makes sense as it disguises Ozils slight laziness, to try and add to what Wilshere can already do and to trust him with more responsibility, but he's currently much too reactive where Ramsey is so much more professional and makes exactly the same role seem really easy.

[The Fox]

I asked the same thing on Twitter, got a few replies similar to yours really. Points raised were:

- Song & Wilshere took it in turns to go forward back then, whereas now it's always Wilshere so he's less focused on defensive responsibilities

- Song's athleticism/speed helped, which is why Flamini-Wilshere seems better

- Teams tried to play through Song/Wilshere less than they do Arteta/Wilshere, because back then it made more sense to target our comical weakness from set pieces/long balls

The last point is quite interesting, hadn't really thought of that but it makes sense. It's a weird one with Arteta: I think when fit he's our best defensive midfielder, but it does seem like he can't play against top notch opposition unless he has Ramsey alongside him: partnerships with Wilshere & Flamini don't seem to work, for different reasons, and it's probably fair to say Arteta-AOC would have similar defensive issues to Arteta-Wilshere.

[wev]

Worth trying Rosicky and Arteta, Rosicky is more disciplined than Wilshere, is okay in the tackling department, has an eye for a pass and seems in to be one of few Arsenal players who enjoy running with the ball

[Rev]

The long ball point is definitely a good one, that's very true. I don't think Song being able to catch up to mistakes was true that often, he normally just acted aggrieved that something had gone wrong.

(I'm having horrible Song-based flashbacks though now, so I'm going to try and stop thinking about that line-up. Imagine having Song and Vermaelen on the pitch at the same time and expecting to keep a defensive shape!)

I'd say the best pairings depend on who we're playing, but we haven't got the right answer for the Big Teams yet I don't think.

Ramsey/Arteta - Teams we're expecting to beat by outplaying them. Think, Swansea, for instance.

Arteta/Flamini - Teams we're expecting to have a fight with. (Although with these two, I don't think you can have Ozil as well. I think you have to have Wilshere as AMC, which in a brawl is asking for a red card...)

Flamini/Ramsey - Teams we're expecting to have a bit of a fight with.

Rosicky is definitely worth a go for the big teams, but I don't think he's the answer. In a comedy-spend-spend-spend solution, I think Arteta and 2012-13 Javi Martinez would be an answer, he was really good at getting forward at the right moment. I've only seen them a couple of times this season but he seems to have been told to stand on the same blades of grass at all times now, which is a bit of a shame (and very un-Guardiola too).

Fitting Wilshere/Cazorla/Ozil in a team was always going to be difficult, it's just not a problem we've had until recently due to Wilshere's injuries. I suspect we'll find an answer at some point, it's just a bit annoying having to be experimenting now.

[The Fox]

Personally I’m struggling to think of any situation where I wouldn't prefer to play Arteta-Ramsey. I think that's just been our best all-round pairing for a long time.

Possibly you could make an argument for Wilshere-Ramsey against weaker teams trying to park the bus, I suppose. I think Wenger would like that to be a more viable proposition, so it makes sense to try it when possible. So far we've had some good games and some bad with that pairing. Statistically, compared to Arteta-Ramsey, we score more goals and have more possession with Wilshere-Ramsey. The sample size is small due to Wilshere-Ramsey not being employed that often, so those stats aren’t bulletproof, but it could be worthwhile in some games.

While I acknowledge that he’s been a useful squad player (indeed we’d have been fucked without him, given Arteta’s apparent physical deterioration), I’m not Flamini’s biggest fan. I think he’s a pretty limited player whose flaws have perhaps been masked a bit by his great attitude on the pitch. That said, it does appear that if you’re forced to use Wilshere in deep midfield (and possibly AOC too, for similar reasons), he’s a better partner than Arteta against quality opposition. He’s more mobile than Arteta and defends wide areas better for that reason (and I guess also possibly because he’s played full back).

I think though, given that Arteta seems to be getting more and more calf injuries, and Flamini was realistically only ever a stop-gap solution, that Arsene might look to try again for a younger, better defensive midfielder. Whether that’s Lars Bender again, or someone else who becomes available, I dunno, but it does seem like something we’ll look at in the summer if the money is there.

[Rev]

Personally I’m struggling to think of any situation where I wouldn't prefer to play Arteta-Ramsey. I think that's just been our best all-round pairing for a long time.

Possibly you could make an argument for Wilshere-Ramsey against weaker teams trying to park the bus, I suppose. I think Wenger would like that to be a more viable proposition, so it makes sense to try it when possible. So far we've had some good games and some bad with that pairing. Statistically, compared to Arteta-Ramsey, we score more goals and have more possession with Wilshere-Ramsey. The sample size is small due to Wilshere-Ramsey not being employed that often, so those stats aren’t bulletproof, but it could be worthwhile in some games.

While I acknowledge that he’s been a useful squad player (indeed we’d have been fucked without him, given Arteta’s apparent physical deterioration), I’m not Flamini’s biggest fan. I think he’s a pretty limited player whose flaws have perhaps been masked a bit by his great attitude on the pitch. That said, it does appear that if you’re forced to use Wilshere in deep midfield (and possibly AOC too, for similar reasons), he’s a better partner than Arteta against quality opposition. He’s more mobile than Arteta and defends wide areas better for that reason (and I guess also possibly because he’s played full back).

I think though, given that Arteta seems to be getting more and more calf injuries, and Flamini was realistically only ever a stop-gap solution, that Arsene might look to try again for a younger, better defensive midfielder. Whether that’s Lars Bender again, or someone else who becomes available, I dunno, but it does seem like something we’ll look at in the summer if the money is there.

I didn't do a "teams we can annihilate" pairing, but yeah, Ramsey and Wilshere for that.

I love(d) Flamini. He's not Cana, but I'm a very firm believer in having an angry shouty man and I really think he was responsible for the post-transfer-deadline amazing run, getting people both settled down and worked up. The thing is, I think it's kind of stuck now and we play as if he's on the pitch even when he isn't so he feels a bit superfluous. And his red card was an embarrassment. You put him on the pitch knowing he might get sent off, but that was completely unnecessary and stupid.

[The Fox]

And it screwed us over big time. I think Wenger has seen enough of Arteta & Wilshere last season and this to know that it's a defensively suspect pairing against top opposition. I think he'd have gone with Flamini-Wilshere if he was able, and we might only have lost 4-1.

[Lucky]

It seems Sanogo is alive and available tomorrow. That's the only change. Still no TV.

[The Fox]

What on earth did Vermaelen do to himself against Tottenham?

[mop]

I'm going to put my neck out here and say I think Sanogo is going to good. Better than good, adequate.

If he ever plays.

[Lucky]

In gonna play it safe and say unfortunately we need someone to replace Diaby in the treatment room when he inevitably leaves on a free once his contract runs down at the end of this season (I think).

[SeanR]

now the tube strike's off all the united fans can get to the game...

[The Fox]

Further to the discussion yesterday about Wilshere, this is a very good read: http://wearethenorthbank.com/talented-mr-wilshere/

[Swallow]

Nice one Anichebe.

[The Fox]

Just makes that van Persie winner all the more sickening m8z.

[The Fox]

Nice piece from Michael Cox on Ozil's form: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/2617?cc=5739

Ridiculous how OTT people have been on him, I just don't get it at all. Someone I follow on Twitter, who's normally pretty switched on, said a couple of days ago that "He seems to believe he's doing us a favour in playing at the moment", and that he should be dropped. And also this, from @ArsenalReport (who I don't follow because she's a fucking moron, but it got retweeted onto my timeline): "Stats-wise, Özil is somewhere around Dembele/Jedinak level, but it's fair to expect closer to Hazard/Coutinho/Aguero level." Frigging unreal.

It seems like to some, because he's expensive he's simply not allowed to have vagaries of form and fitness.

[Silent Runner]

As someone on twitter (Jane Cavendish maybe) pointed out, imagine what the idiots would have been saying about Robert Pires in his first season if twitter was around back then.

[bear]

Nice piece from Michael Cox on Ozil's form: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/2617?cc=5739

Ridiculous how OTT people have been on him, I just don't get it at all. Someone I follow on Twitter, who's normally pretty switched on, said a couple of days ago that "He seems to believe he's doing us a favour in playing at the moment", and that he should be dropped. And also this, from @ArsenalReport (who I don't follow because she's a fucking moron, but it got retweeted onto my timeline): "Stats-wise, Özil is somewhere around Dembele/Jedinak level, but it's fair to expect closer to Hazard/Coutinho/Aguero level." Frigging unreal.

It seems like to some, because he's expensive he's simply not allowed to have vagaries of form and fitness.

Thats from Cascarinos column in the Times isn't it?

[Petrousgyre]

Nice piece from Michael Cox on Ozil's form: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/2617?cc=5739

Ridiculous how OTT people have been on him

It's largely due to this mentality that permeates English football where a player is gauged by how much he is seen to 'care' - ie, run round like a lunatic, charge into 50/50 tackles and generally demonstrate that you 'want it more' and the press/fans will love you. Play a more considered, tactically astute game like, say, Ozil largely does and you're tarred with the not caring enough brush - it's idiotic of course. Nowhere does this line of thinking pervade more than at the national level, players who are otherwise highly capable at club level transform into headless chickens as soon as they put an England shirt on, terrified they'll be hounded for not doing enough for their country. England's performances in major competitions demonstrate how effective this reasoning is.

[The Fox]

It's largely due to this mentality that permeates English football where a player is gauged by how much he is seen to 'care' - ie, run round like a lunatic, charge into 50/50 tackles and generally demonstrate that you 'want it more' and the press/fans will love you. Play a more considered, tactically astute game like, say, Ozil largely does and you're tarred with the not caring enough brush - it's idiotic of course. Nowhere does this line of thinking pervade more than at the national level, players who are otherwise highly capable at club level transform into headless chickens as soon as they put an England shirt on, terrified they'll be hounded for not doing enough for their country. England's performances in major competitions demonstrate how effective this line of thinking is.

Yeah I commented yesterday on how Wilshere was getting praised for his performance against Liverpool, apparently based on how many dribbles he was attempting and how 'visible' he was. The fact he was meant to be a deep-lying midfielder, and his positional indiscipline was a contributing factor to how badly we were struggling at the back seemed to have completely escaped the commentators/analysts.

Thats from Cascarinos column in the Times isn't it?

If so I think it's just coincidence. That's the type of thing I'd expect from that fucktard though.

As someone on twitter (Jane Cavendish maybe) pointed out, imagine what the idiots would have been saying about Robert Pires in his first season if twitter was around back then.

It was her yeah. Someone countered by saying Pires didn't have the same standards expected of him, but I'm not sure that's totally true. I mean yeah ok, maybe not to quite the level set for Ozil, but it's also not true to say fans weren't expecting anything from him. He was bought as Overmars' replacement after all, so people definitely wanted big things from him.

[chamberlago]

I do find it incredibly frustrating how there seems to be a section of fans with no patience at all when it comes to allowing new players time to settle. I mean that comparison quoted of Hazard/Coutinho/Aguero. They are all in at least their second season in the Premier League, they've had time to adapt to the league, time to adapt to life in England. Players like Giroud and Gervinho for example had people on their backs almost from the get-go, which personally I'm sure affected their confidence and made it even harder for them. Luckily Giroud has been strong enough to get through it and turned into a key player for us.

It's partly the clubs fault I suppose. A lack of success breeds frustration and impatience, and often these players are coming straight into the team, usually replacing a big name departure who was performing at the top of their game, but still you don't need to look back very far to find club legends who didn't set the world on fire in their first season, Bergkamp, Henry, and Pires off the top of my head.

In summary: ugh, football fans.