Arsenal

[hauk]

Honestly not that fussed we lost, I mean Chelsea's 2nd team has Mata, Eto, Ba etc. and we have Bendtner an Ryo (slight exaggeration but still). Would really prefer us to concentrate on the league this year.

[FATEone]

I can see why Arteta got a red card because Chamakh conned the officials, but I don't think it was a foul at all. Thought Foy had a poor game overall tbh. At least he's only suspended for Chelsea in the Cup (which realistically is a game we're probably not going to win now, with neither Arteta nor Flamini available).

PS Michael Owen is a cunt

He conned the officials by making Arteta stand completely out of position and then slam into him when he realised he was about to run through on goal?

[FATEone]

It certainly wasn't as bad as Alan Hansen last night, trying to point out Arsenal's weak defending by using a clip from three seasons ago.

Cunt is soooooo bitter about 1989. Would be delicious if Arsenal won the title in his last ever MOTD.

Alan Hansen is bitter about the one season he didn't win the league? Or are you bitter because he's pointed out, quite rightly, that you lot are being sold a dream.

[SeanR]

FATEone confirmed for Alan Hansen alt.

[The Fox]

Oh joy, this guy is back.

The only way we'll win anything, cups or leagues, is if we beat the "big teams" again. We haven't done so for 8 years and, on all evidence so far, we're not going to this season*.

Not sure if it's the personnel or the coaching but we always give goals away in these games (see: the goals mentioned above and Vermaelen against United last season). I'm not completely writing off our chances but it would be good if everybody started lowering their expectations now.

EDIT: *I should stress that we were not outplayed in this or the Dortmund game; I mean the silly mistakes are still there and they're still completely killing our chances of winning

Mourinho has never lost to Wenger and he certainly didn't look like doing so last night. I'll reserve judgment until we've played them in the league because obviously their squad is a lot better than ours in terms of depth and that's what showed last night. But I do worry somewhat that Mourinho has simply got our number.

That said if we beat Liverpool at the weekend, no one will care about this defeat.

edit: one other point - Jenkinson looks to be regressing to me, which might not be a surprise considering how infrequently he's playing. He has a good engine and is a decent crosser, but he's weak in the air and technically just doesn't look proficient enough at all.

[MTC]

Arsenal fans should be happy they're knocked out of this time waster cup when they have a genuine shot at league success.

[The Fox]

Well, we'll have to see about that. Back to back games against Man City and Chelsea in December will be the real litmus test, as well as trying to pick up a decent haul from our next two games against top 4 contenders Liverpool and Man Utd. We really need to stop this run of injuries though because we just don't have the squad to cope. If we still have 4-6 players out for the next couple of months we'll really struggle.

[Timmo]

Arsenal meeting Spurs late on in the Europa league is definitely going to happen.

[The Fox]

Well yeah that's the other thing, in between all that stuff we also need to try and pick up at least 2pts from Napoli and Dortmund away.

[MTC]

Trust me, you don't want to be fighting on 4 fronts if you're in with a shout of winning the league. This was definitely a blessing.

[Timmo]

trust me

[The Fox]

I agree our squad is too thin for compete on four fronts. The problem is it's not really clear as yet if we truly are in with a shout of winning the league, and probably won't be until Christmas.

[Lucky]

I went last night, first time for a while, and I was truly shocked at how bad Bendtner was.

He really looked like someone who hasn't played for two years. I think he did everything wrong. I don't remember him doing anything right. He couldn't even pass the ball to someone with the the same shirt on as him.

While I accept he's earnt a lot of money in the last couple of years it seems he's lost any ability he may have had by not playing any football.

It was a bit sad really. One of the worst performances I've seen from an Arsenal player.

I think if he wants to be a footballer he needs a move to maybe a mid table PL team or similar in Germany maybe. Maybe then he could play in a reasonable team and perform reasonably. Having him at Arsenal is just getting embarrassing for everyone involved.

[The Fox]

As I mentioned before, I think we could have a bit of a tactical issue against Liverpool with Walcott still out injured. Assuming they stick to their 3-5-2 then a) our defence will be up against the unusual system of two strikers, both of whom are in great form, and b) our play could get horribly narrow if we set the midfield up as we have done recently.

With that in mind I think I'd start Serge Gnabry, assuming he's recovered from his knock. For large spells of the Palace game he looked our most dangerous attacking outlet, and he stretches the play better than Rosicky/Wilshere on the right. I really want him to attack that space in behind the wing backs.

My team:

----------------Szczesny--------------

Sagna--Mertesacker---Koscielny--Gibbs

-----------Ramsey----Arteta------------

-----Gnabry-----Ozil-----Cazorla-----

-----------------Giroud----------------

Subs: Fabianski, Jenkinson, Vermaelen, Monreal, Wilshere, Rosicky, Bendtner

Monreal is another option off the bench to give us more attacking width while also offering more defensive protection than Cazorla. I thought he looked good against Palace and was possibly our best player vs Chelsea (not that that's saying much).

[The Fox]

Well Gnabry is out. What a pisser. Guess it'll be Wilshere or Rosicky taking that last 'wide' spot then.

Don't feel too confident if I'm honest.

[Silent Runner]

So how are we expecting Liverpool to set up? 5 in the middle to swamp the midfield and look to counter attack? And to press Dortmund-style when they don’t have the ball.

Because if that’s the case I’d prefer Wilshire, Cazorla and Ozil in there. They’re comfortable in possession and can make a bit of space for themselves.

[The Fox]

I assume they'll play as they have done recently:

----------------Mignolet---------------

------Toure-----Skrtel-----Sakho------

Johnson----Gerrard---Lucas---Cissokho

---------------Coutinho---------------

--------Sturridge-----Suarez----------

Well, Coutinho is available again I think but maybe Rodgers will stick with Henderson to start with as that's a bit more solid. As for pressing, they'll do it but it won't be "Dortmund-style". No English team presses the way Dortmund do which is why it took us half an hour to get to grips with it.

[Rocafella]

Quite worried about tomorrow. I think we lose so much in the final third if we don't have any pace out wide; the balance of the team just doesn't seem right. Suarez and Sturridge are bang in form, so I'd be happy with a draw tomorrow.

[The Fox]

A point would be fine tbh; Flamini and Walcott should be back for Man Utd so that might be a more winnable fixture.

I wonder if it makes sense to start Monreal wide left and then Cazorla/Jack/Rosicky 'wide' right. Bit more of a counter attacking setup that also offers more width and defensive solidity.

[Dude Ranch]

We all go on about not beating the big teams and when Liverpool at home comes round you'd settle for a point! We need to win this.

[The Fox]

I just think it's not a disaster given how depleted we are in wide attacking areas.

[Timmo]

Ozil was stretching Dortmund well. Put him right, Wilshere middle/left, Cazorla left/middle.

[The Fox]

Ozil will drift right a lot anyway, but yeah when Cazorla came on vs Dortmund he pretty much stayed out there.

I assume Rosicky is going to play seeing as he didn't feature in midweek.

edit: oh no wait he did play didn't he. Guess Wilshere will start then

[hauk]

I don't think a front 3 of Cazorla, Giroud and Ozil is too bad. I would image with everyone fit Cazorla and Giroud would be starters in those positions anyway. It leaves us with little options from the bench though.

[Petrousgyre]

Watching Dortmund destroy a generally half-decent Stuttgart side. They look really fucking good.

[The Fox]

Wilshere out injured apparently. We haven't got a hope in hell of winning the title if we don't improve on the injury front. It's ridiculous.

[Cappuccino Kid]

Good news on the Chelsea front with their loss at Newcastle. Means we get the chance to open up a bit of a gap on them this afternoon if things go well, and would make a loss slightly less bad news that it would otherwise have been. I'm hoping we'll see Cazorla start to get a bit more of his mojo back, we could do with it particularly if Wilshere is another one on the injury pile.

[gizmo1990]

Can anyone offer a compelling reason as to why we suffer so badly with injuries? I'd love to see some stats on it but it does seem that we're the worst offender in the league in this regard..

[Silent Runner]

Jon Flanagan starting for Liverpool. Anyone know anything about him?

[Silent Runner]

No problem with yellow for Sagna there but no card for Toure for a similar one?

Good stuff so far, Giroud pulled the defense all over the place for the goal.