Arsenal

[Art Vandelay]

Now that I got over van Persie being a cunt about this whole affair it does leave us in a very tricky position squadwise.

We are desperately short of creative players now for a "footballing" side.

It's literally only Wilshere now and he's dead. Sleep well, sweet prince.

[BlinkyBear]

To see you leave and join the Man City thread in a year? No thanks, you sit tight.

Don't come crying to me when we give the Captaincy to Park.

[Daley]

we should get eboue back...

Santos has got the post of comedy fullback covered though.

[toythatkills]

What the fuck makes RvP think he knows what is best for the club, and know better than Wenger. Arsene is not perfect but the guy has always had Arsenal's best interests at heart. The more I read about this, the more I get wound up.

To be fair, basically everyone in this thread thinks they know better than Wenger, or at least they do every summer anyway.

[Daley]

To be fair, basically everyone in this thread thinks they know better than Wenger, or at least they do every summer anyway.

Last time I checked none of us were playing up front for Arsenal and captaining the club. We're all just loons on the internet and therefore can say what we want. Being captain of Arsenal comes with some responsibility. RvP is forever tainted now. I just want him out as soon as possible so we can plan for the new season.

[Sirloin]

Now that I got over van Persie being a cunt about this whole affair it does leave us in a very tricky position squadwise.

We are desperately short of creative players now for a "footballing" side.

Ganso just turned down a new contract at Santos, I always thought he would fit in well at Arsenal.

[Daley]

Ganso just turned down a new contract at Santos, I always thought he would fit in well at Arsenal.

He sounds right down our street. Does he also suffer from inexplicable season-long injuries? Does he come to life as his contract is winding down? Yes?

Sign him up!

[Sirloin]

He was out for quite a while last year with knee knack. It's a match made in heaven!

[DC Lemon]

The wanting to leave to win things argument only goes so far. What does it mean to win something at a club where success is inevitable with or without him? Torres got his prizes but he'll never get back what he had at Liverpool - respect and a regular place in the starting line-up.

[toythatkills]

Maybe he would in a Torres/Van Persie swap deal

(Torres+cash, obviously)

[BlinkyBear]

he'll never get back what he had at Liverpool - respect and a regular place in the starting line-up.

I hate 'mercenary' footballers as much as the next man, but have a word with yourself:

Is that a man who looks like he's in need of 'respect'?

[Daley]

And now Jabba Usmanov has had his say:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99187277/Red-White-letter-to-Arsenal

[Spanish Bombs]

I think this will work out ok for you in general. RVP will never be as good again, had a shit Euros and I thought Giroud looked class last season. Podolski? Who knows but he'll bring some Cologne lols at least.

[Lucky]

There’s been a lot of talk about how anyone would leave their job if they were offered twice their wages, and of course they would – I would. For most people the wages you earn is number one on the list of importance when choosing a new job or deciding if you stay where you are or to move on.

When, by all accounts, you are being offered £5million just to stay where you are and around a £50,000 per week increase in your wages then maybe money needn’t be the number one priority.

While we should all realise that RVP is just a person working somewhere currently earning x but can earn y elsewhere, I would argue that football is not like 99% of ‘normal’ situations. For example, if a player in the lower leagues was earning say £1000 per week and another club comes in for him and offers £5000 per week he must go there, regardless if he’s just pledged his future to his current club or if it’s a rival team he’s going to etc. In situations like that supporters have to realise the real life part of it. He simply would have to go and anyone in his position would do the same.

However, in RVP’s situation there is more to it. He is already wealthy beyond his dreams, the new deal offered by Arsenal would make him wealthy to the point where he would secure not only his future and his kids futures, but also their kids and their kids…………

I would argue that in these types of situations football is different to normal life as the money side needn’t be the deciding factor. It’ll still never happen but maybe RVP / footballers should think ‘the club has stood by me while I’ve had 7 injury plagued seasons playing an average of 15 games per season, they’ve paid me huge sums of money, they are offering me even bigger sums of money to stay, they’ve made me the captain, yes I want to win trophies but they are showing signs of trying to achieve that, AW has shown huge belief in me, doesn’t he deserve a little bit of loyalty in return?’

I haven’t even got onto the fans yet, who invest a lot of their own time and a lot of their hard earned money supporting their team. Not that any fans would want to, but a fan would never jump ship just because another club suddenly comes along and becomes the new top side (Chelsea, City etc.) we are in it during the good and bad times and have no intention of going anywhere else.

Yes, footballers are just working for an employer and earning a wage, but football is not like ‘normal’ life, there are fans involved who sing their name, print their names on the back of the kits they buy, fight their corner in banter with other fans, put posters of them on the walls in their homes, ask for their autographs if they are lucky enough to bump into them & worship them probably more than whatever God they may believe in.

I think what I’m trying to say, is that it would be nice if a footballer one day just came out and said ‘yes I could probably earn even more elsewhere but I already earn much more than I could ever have dreamed about and certainly more than I need, the manager and club have supported me through the bad times, I am the captain and focal point of this team, the fans love me and have always stuck by me when things were not going so great, so I’m gonna try and repay some of that support and stick around and try to help this great club get back to where it was just a few years ago’.

Maybe as fans we should try not to get too emotionally attached but that’s the way football is and always will be. It’s a tribal thing; you’re part of something, a family even. It’s hard of course to accept the feeling that you’ve been shafted by the family’s favourite son. Cesc was different in the way that you’re son has grown up and however hard, you’re happy to send him out into the world onto bigger and better things and are proud of his subsequent achievements.

Truly a sad day for Arsenal, for football fans, for football as a whole even.

[carlito]

This talk about Wilshire is terrifying too.

A teenager who has been out injured for over a year after playing one season as a holding midfielder (which was impressive more because of his age than his performances) for the first team is being presented as our main source of creativity for next season. It's just disgraceful to place that kind of pressure on a player in his position at his age.

Added to which, given the attitude of a growing vocal minority of fans, unless miracles do happen he'll be written off before he's 20.

[The Fox]

If Wilshere comes back in 2012/13 (and at this point I'm not counting that as a certainty), he will surely be a bit rubbish. It is crazy the pressure he's being put under, for Arsenal and for England. I mean he's a good footballer for sure, but he's not bloody Maradona, and he's going to be coming back from 14 months+ out injured (significantly longer than Ramsey was out for).

Also, this comment has loads of +1s on the Guardian's shitty Gooner-troll blog:

The 2011/12 season was the first and only season when Van Persie remained injury-free for the whole campaign and scored goals on a consistent basis. For 6 whole years prior to that, he picked up an injury that kept him out for almost the entire season. Yet, just on the basis of 1 good season, RVP decides that he really deserves trophies and betrays the faith shown by Arsene Wenger and Arsenal in employing him despite his injuries.

The sense of entitlement shown by Van Persie leaves a really bad taste in the mouth, even for this Man United supporter.

Hear hear.

[Art Vandelay]

This talk about Wilshire is terrifying too.

A teenager who has been out injured for over a year after playing one season as a holding midfielder (which was impressive more because of his age than his performances) for the first team is being presented as our main source of creativity for next season. It's just disgraceful to place that kind of pressure on a player in his position at his age.

Added to which, given the attitude of a growing vocal minority of fans, unless miracles do happen he'll be written off before he's 20.

The fact that England were creatively bereft this summer only made things worse too. Every game Scott Parker and James Milner played Jack Wilshere got even better. I'll eat a millinery item if he plays a game before Christmas and he's bound to be in and out of form for whatever time he does get after that. The priority must be to get someone who can play a bit and can go in midfield. I suppose we could always get a holding midfielder and play Song further up the field, but then there's no point relying on him too much as he's clearing off next summer. Quite a pickle we've lurched into again.

[hauk]

Any chance we can strip Van Persie of the captaincy and let him rot in the reserves for a year? Or maybe just play him in every single match until he gets injured? Maybe send a signal out to other players who want to leave for “footballing reasons”.

Before his statement I did honestly think we should keep hold of him for this final year as it's not like we are going to get big money for him. Makes you wonder if his press release was all about engineering a move this summer at the behest of his lovely agent Dein.

[The Fox]

Apparently Darren Dein isn't RVP's agent, btw. Is that right?

[hauk]

I think he has 2 agents, one of whom is Dein.

[Daley]

A decent read:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/robin-van-persie-transfer-why-arsenal-1133409

And sheds some light on the agent question (yes there are two, a Dutch one and Dein)

[Spanish Bombs]

and this guy:

[carlito]

I don't know why people think that Song could handle a more attacking role. I can't imagine many players in his position could have worse pass completion/losing possession last season. Hitting one Hollywood through ball in ten doesn't make him Pirlo.

[Ravern]

There's been a lot of talk about how anyone would leave their job if they were offered twice their wages, and of course they would – I would. For most people the wages you earn is number one on the list of importance when choosing a new job or deciding if you stay where you are or to move on.

When, by all accounts, you are being offered £5million just to stay where you are and around a £50,000 per week increase in your wages then maybe money needn't be the number one priority.

While we should all realise that RVP is just a person working somewhere currently earning x but can earn y elsewhere, I would argue that football is not like 99% of 'normal' situations. For example, if a player in the lower leagues was earning say £1000 per week and another club comes in for him and offers £5000 per week he must go there, regardless if he's just pledged his future to his current club or if it's a rival team he's going to etc. In situations like that supporters have to realise the real life part of it. He simply would have to go and anyone in his position would do the same.

However, in RVP's situation there is more to it. He is already wealthy beyond his dreams, the new deal offered by Arsenal would make him wealthy to the point where he would secure not only his future and his kids futures, but also their kids and their kids…………

I would argue that in these types of situations football is different to normal life as the money side needn't be the deciding factor. It'll still never happen but maybe RVP / footballers should think 'the club has stood by me while I've had 7 injury plagued seasons playing an average of 15 games per season, they've paid me huge sums of money, they are offering me even bigger sums of money to stay, they've made me the captain, yes I want to win trophies but they are showing signs of trying to achieve that, AW has shown huge belief in me, doesn't he deserve a little bit of loyalty in return?'

I haven't even got onto the fans yet, who invest a lot of their own time and a lot of their hard earned money supporting their team. Not that any fans would want to, but a fan would never jump ship just because another club suddenly comes along and becomes the new top side (Chelsea, City etc.) we are in it during the good and bad times and have no intention of going anywhere else.

Yes, footballers are just working for an employer and earning a wage, but football is not like 'normal' life, there are fans involved who sing their name, print their names on the back of the kits they buy, fight their corner in banter with other fans, put posters of them on the walls in their homes, ask for their autographs if they are lucky enough to bump into them & worship them probably more than whatever God they may believe in.

I think what I'm trying to say, is that it would be nice if a footballer one day just came out and said 'yes I could probably earn even more elsewhere but I already earn much more than I could ever have dreamed about and certainly more than I need, the manager and club have supported me through the bad times, I am the captain and focal point of this team, the fans love me and have always stuck by me when things were not going so great, so I'm gonna try and repay some of that support and stick around and try to help this great club get back to where it was just a few years ago'.

Maybe as fans we should try not to get too emotionally attached but that's the way football is and always will be. It's a tribal thing; you're part of something, a family even. It's hard of course to accept the feeling that you've been shafted by the family's favourite son. Cesc was different in the way that you're son has grown up and however hard, you're happy to send him out into the world onto bigger and better things and are proud of his subsequent achievements.

Truly a sad day for Arsenal, for football fans, for football as a whole even.

I completely disagree. It would only be a nice thing for you as it would make your support feel like it has some significance.

Your logic seems to work on the idea. that a sustained contractual agreement in football should be maintained, even when what the other party provides is inadequate. But then players should be offered contract extensions even if they are playing rubbish, just because they love the club so much? I don't recall, for example, Eboue being offered such treatment, and few players are when football clubs move up through the leagues. People don't seem to have a problem with this, perhaps because the fan's assumption is that the "club" (whatever that is ) is a more important entity than the players.

[Mars]

[scruffycat]

In the impromptu survey I just did of the City fans I work with, well 6 of the City fans I work with, none of them want RVP to join. And judging by the comments in the MEN today that's not uncommon amongst City fans, most thinking it's a bad idea all round. Not that he's not a great player, but I'd agree

[toythatkills]

Did they give reasons?

[Spanish Bombs]

Because he isn't as hot as a photoshopped photo of Nicole from Girls Aloud. They are signing her.

[Sealflap]

[scruffycat]

Did they give reasons?

A mixture really, aside from the usual crap like 'He's really injury prone' etc I just got the impression most City fans weren't keen on him. In fact one said they would rather have Torres from Chelsea and RVP could go there.

Mind you I suppose the same fans would be cheering him next season if he turns up there.