Arsenal

[toythatkills]

Arsene Wenger wishes he didn't see that. Days like this I wish I supported a team like Sunderland. Not because they won, but because they give a shit about whether or not they win. I don't care if Arsenal don't win trophies, I just want them to try.

Every member of this squad should be forced to write letters to everyone that's ever played for Arsenal in the past, apologising for being so relentlessly apathetic.

[Dude Ranch]

the end of Wenger

Only if he decides it.

[Art Vandelay]

The sad truth is that the club is only run to make money. If we finish 4th now having made money last summer then the season will be deemed a roaring success. The players don't care about games like this because the manager doesn't, because the board don't, because the owners don't. As long as the ground is full enough to make money then that'll do. Modern football can choke on a fat dick.

[The Fox]

I don't buy that Wenger didn't care about that game. He visibly did, but his urgency and anger didn't get across to the players at all.

I don't know where we go from here. The only saving grace seems to be that Chelsea are possibly even worse, so we might still scrape fourth place.

[wev]

I have mixed feelings about finishing fourth, obviously I want the club to finish as high as it can, but at the same time finishing fourth would see us carrying on declining without addressing the obvious issues for yet another season. If we're in "crisis" (debatable, we're playing shit, but thats not being in a crisis I don't think) then a final position that shows we're no longer competetive (and hurts the boards pockets) may make them wake the fuck up somewhat.

[Steve007]

You've got Spurs at the Emirates next week. The outcome of that match will surely either be the end of Wenger or one of those moments where you stop caring about everything that came before it.

If we play like that against Spurs and lose there will be a riot!

I don't mind losing if the players have given 100%, I mean how can you fault people for trying? What I find absolutely unacceptable is the attitude the players have demonstrated this week.

[wev]

If we play like that against Spurs and lose there will be a riot!

I don't mind losing if the players have given 100%, I mean how can you fault people for trying? What I find absolutely unacceptable is the attitude the players have demonstrated this week.

Don't you mean some slightly louder tutting?

[Art Vandelay]

All that finishing outside the top 4 will achieve is that there will be absolutely no chance that any money will be available to replace the players we're likely to sell. The only thing that will instigate change at the club is if enough fans don't renew their season tickets and it starts to effect the bottom line. As there's a waiting list of around 9 years then we had better get settled in.

[Steve007]

Don't you mean some slightly louder tutting?

I'm trying to be positive about the fucking helmets that go to the stadium. Now I am just saying what I really think...

[humdrum]

The problem with todays game is the same problem with have most games, the front 3 just ain't working. gervinho and the ox clearly had instructions to stay wide to try and stretch their defence. the thing is though they end up just standing out wide doing fuck all. isolated from the rest of the team effectively meaning we are playing with two men down.

if we are going to play with them wide they either need to have a deeper starting position meaning they are picking up the ball facing the goal,

rather then having two pacey players with a starting position meaning they need to take a touch turn and then go at the defender, problem is those couple of touches are giving the other teams time to close them down and stop them before they have even got the ball under control.

when ideally their first touch should be them running on to the ball and attacking the full backs.not giving them time to settle or get cover across.

or they need to be making runs into the box or across the front of the defenders trying to drag people out of poisition making gaps for other to exploit.

RVP is too isolated from the team. i think he would do alot better if he had another strike partner to work off, play 1-2's with. rather then going up against two hulking CB's on his own.

I cant help thinking a system change to 4-4-2 would get alot better results. gervinho and ox out wide of the midfield 4, meaning they are picking up the ball facing the right way and running at people. and RVP with one of the other strikers.(or walcott).

[Liamness]

I don't know about that humdrum, can you really pick out one area of the pitch where you lost the battle today? I thought Sunderland were just better.

@ Art

United supposedly have an extensive waiting list, yet clearly had more trouble than usual selling all available season tickets over the summer. If it has been quoted as being '9 years', well that claim will certainly be tested.

[Art Vandelay]

I think 9 years is on the assumption that everyone on the list takes up the option of buying when they become available. I suspect it's probably dropping off a bit now though as people are getting increasingly suspicious of promises of signings that are made before the renewal deadline, as they are invariably broken.

In other news, the Observer absolutely brutalises Wenger in tomorrows paper. They are also writing as though Van Persie has as good as left, so it's good to get the ball rolling on that summer transfer saga nice and early. I mean, if he'd been injured like he usually is I honestly don't think it would have been unrealistic to suggest we'd be scrapping around in the bottom half. I shudder to think at what sort of tin pot replacement is going to be offered up.

[BlinkyBear]

Just got home. Utter shower of shite and waste of a day.

Feel sorry for the poor bastards who are having to go back to London.

[Rev]

I saved it to watch with a curry this evening. If anyone is near the Harrow area, I'd recommend Spicy Night - they're on Just Eat, not particularly expensive and pretty good. Bit inconsistent sometimes, but nothing serious.

I'm not going to say anything about the football.

[The Fox]

In other news, the Observer absolutely brutalises Wenger in tomorrows paper. They are also writing as though Van Persie has as good as left, so it's good to get the ball rolling on that summer transfer saga nice and early. I mean, if he'd been injured like he usually is I honestly don't think it would have been unrealistic to suggest we'd be scrapping around in the bottom half. I shudder to think at what sort of tin pot replacement is going to be offered up.

Is that the piece by Daniel Taylor currently on the Guardian site? If so it's a pretty shit piece. That guy doesn't even bother trying to hide his Man Utd bias. Him and Richard Williams stick the knife into Arsenal at every available opportunity.

I won't defend Arsene 100% by any means, because there seem to be clear issues with his glaring lack of tactical flexibility, and his ability to motivate the players at times. I have lost a lot if faith in his abilities. But for me by far the biggest issue is getting some statement of intent from Kroenke, and some truth about finances from Gazidis. At the moment Wenger could be getting hung out to dry by those cunts for all we know.

[Jonathan_Kerr]

Before Wenger goes, I just want him to get a nice big budget to play with, just to prove he's still got it and his hands have been tied. It will be shit if we get a new coach in future who gets a massive budget when Wenger has deserved it for years.

[Art Vandelay]

Is that the piece by Daniel Taylor currently on the Guardian site? If so it's a pretty shit piece. That guy doesn't even bother trying to hide his Man Utd bias. Him and Richard Williams stick the knife into Arsenal at every available opportunity.

Yeah that's the one. I agree it's an awful piece of work. He's just one of a number of journalists who have had to write thinly veiled insult pieces over the years but now has carte blanche to gleefully stamp on his head whilst he's on the ground. Yesterday wasn't his fault, the players need to take 100% of the responsibility. But they won't. There's probably around 3-5 people out there who know they're playing elsewhere next year and they're performing as such.

[anders limpar]

The Gooner are now calling for Wenger's head:

http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=editorial&id=356

If he really had Arsenal’s best interests at heart, he would resign immediately and leave without taking the compensation payment (circa £16 million) he is entitled to if he was dismissed now. Let Steve Bould take over on a caretaker basis and organize the defence so that the team can at least try and carve out some results. Maybe bring in Martin Keown and/or Tony Adams to help motivate the players. Does anyone believe we would be any worse off than continuing with Arsene Wenger?

It’s not just the cup exits that have created the need for change. Teams go out of cups all the time. It’s the manner of the exits and the feeling that we have all been here before, but that every season, the chances of success seem more and more distant. Arsenal, as the quality of the players at the club has slowly declined, seem to be slipping out of contention generally. Change is needed to re-invigorate the players. If Bould did take over, then it gives some breathing space for the club to approach a decent target in the summer, and if he did excel, then he could be given another season to prove it wasn’t a flash in the pan. It has to be better than what we are witnessing now, which is desperately sad.

Can you imagine the reaction if Spurs win the north London derby next weekend? Perhaps, before we get to that horrible stage, it might be worth accepting the need to move on. The board are not going to sack Wenger because of the economic implications. But if the man from Alsace is big enough, he will know he’s reached the end and will hand in his notice on Monday morning. With him being as stubborn as a mule, I’m not holding my breath.

[The Fox]

There's probably around 3-5 people out there who know they're playing elsewhere next year and they're performing as such.

Everyone in the starting XI from yesterday is likely to still be at the club next season though, so I'm not sure that explains it at all. edit: apart from RVP

There's a phenomenal amount of players who could realistically be off though: Fabianski, Almunia, Mannone, Squillaci, Diaby , Denilson, Vela, Arshavin, Benayoun, Bendtner, Park and Chamakh, off the top of my head. I know a lot of them haven't been part of the squad this season anyway, and we probably won't be able to find permanent homes for all of them due to their wage demands, but you can imagine at least that they would all want to leave. It's a bit mental.

[Art Vandelay]

Of the people who turned out yesterday I reckon it wouldn't be unrealistic to say that Walcott, Song and Van Persie are players that other, very decent clubs would be interested in signing and I could easily see them all leaving. There's others that won't be going anywhere whatever happens, but that list of dead wood is extraordinary. You could easily add Rosicky to that list too, plus of the 17 players we currently have out on loan there's probably only Ryo that's in the manager's plans. We're in exactly the same position Liverpool ended up in whilst they were getting reamed by Hicks and Gillette; wasting money on average players to fill places in the squad as they couldn't afford anything better. Who's going to want any of that lot anyway? It's hardly like their stock has gone up since we couldn't get rid of them last summer.

I don't see the sense in that Gooner article at all. Why replace Wenger - a man with a proven record of achieving what's left to be achieved this season - with Steve Bould - someone with precisely zero experience of managing a Premiership football team. Let's get Keown and Adams in too! That's a strategy that's unlikely to blow up in everyone's face. I mean, it worked for Newcastle didn't it.

If we're going to replace Wenger, then a dream team of Guardiola and Bould with Wenger being a youth development consultant/benign dictator would be delightful. That's basically never, ever going to happen though. What's John Gregory up to these days, and does he still have that saxophone?

[The Fox]

Oh yeah I think Walcott is off in the summer for sure. There's no way the club will pay him the salary he's allegedly looking for, and quite right too. That's hardly the end of days though. And Van Persie would be a bit mental to sign a new deal at this point, frankly, however much he likes the club.

[Daley]

RvP to Real Madrid is a done deal I hear.

Wenger is not going anywhere. He could take a dump on the board room table and they wouldn't sack him.

He won't resign. Would you from a £6m a year contract?

The really, really scary thing is if there is bugger all money and there is not going to be for the foreseeable future, who on earth can come in and do a better job when he has to basically raise all his own transfer funds?

Things are bad with Wenger. They could be even worse with someone else.

[The Fox]

If Van Persie does go to Madrid we could do worse than try to get Higuain in part exchange, as he would surely be surplus to requirements. A lot younger than RVP too.

[Art Vandelay]

Higuain is a beast but I reckon his wages must be astronomical. You could argue that if we break the bank to give someone like that a contract, why not just offer than to Van Persie instead?

[BlinkyBear]

People yesterday outside were saying things like "that's it, Wenger's got to go now" and "he can't stay after that", like yesterday's performance told us anything new. We all knew that the squad would fold in February/March time, that Wenger is tactically limited and that we'd be undone with a combination of injuries and lack of investment.

Yesterday was shit; we played shit, the home team were fucking horrid and Webb was an utter fucking helmet from the first moment, letting everything go for the home team and giving us no room for any kind of physical play. But what yesterday wasn't was the 'end of the line'. Let Wenger finish his contract but support him in doing so. It's difficult to ask him to finish 4th and win anything with this squad (and I use the word squad because I think our first XI is pretty decent and on paper, for me, only second to Man City) so give him some money in the Summer, support this with people capable and willing to land quality squad and first team players and see what happens next year. I wouldn't be heartbroken if Wenger decides to leave because ultimately things have stagnated, but the Board have really stiffed Wenger since, and I hate to be one of 'those' fans, they got rid of Dein.

[Art Vandelay]

What makes this coming summer any different from the last one, or the 5 or 6 before than for that matter? From where I'm sitting it looks to be shaping up to be yet another facsimile of all the previous debacles. That facsimile is of course Florentino Pérez and Sandro Rosell's ample buttocks squashed against the glass, jostling for position with dog shit offers for our best player crudely scrawled across both cheeks in permanent marker. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that we've learnt anything from the cock ups we've endured before. Why would Wenger get financially supported now rather than any of the other seasons he's been in charge? I'm not seeing it.

[BlinkyBear]

What makes this coming summer any different from the last one, or the 5 or 6 before than for that matter? From where I'm sitting it looks to be shaping up to be yet another facsimile of all the previous debacles. That facsimile is of course Florentino Pérez and Sandro Rosell's ample buttocks squashed against the glass, jostling for position with dog shit offers for our best player crudely scrawled across both cheeks in permanent marker. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that we've learnt anything from the cock ups we've endured before. Why would Wenger get financially supported now rather than any of the other seasons he's been in charge? I'm not seeing it.

Because it's the last year of his contract and this is the worst we've been in 13 years. The argument has been that he had money in the last couple of Summers but chose not to spend it. Surely now he can't ignore the fact that money needs to be spent and if he doesn't in the last year of his contract, then things need to change. We've had good, sometimes excellent squads in the last 5 years and Wenger has probably had to acquiesce and lose players that he hasn't wanted to-things were out of his hands to an extent and he's done well to keep us in contention. Now however, he has the chance to spend some money and make up for the problems we've had. Will he? Let's hope so, because as long as we're going about things in the way we have for the last 2 years, we won't be challenging for anything.

[Rocafella]

Wenger deserves to be criticised, of course he does. But if we're going to talk about spending money, I'll stick up for him and echo Blinky and Art. Wenger wanted Mata and/or Carzola over the summer, but Gazidis and his cronies messed around and we were beaten to the punch. He will spend big money if the player is good enough.

[Art Vandelay]

I can't see funds being released (if they do indeed exist) for a manger who's going to leave in a year. It doesn't make sense for any club to invest heavily moulding a team in the vision who a person everyone knows isn't going to be there 12 months later. We'll sell a few players, buy a few underwhelming replacements and hope Chamberlain, Wilshere, Ramsey and Miyachi improve enough to see us through. If that doesn't happen I'll actually buy a Spurs shirt and dance the charleston outside the ground.

Arseblog nailed it today when they said that changes won't be made because there's no-one to make them. We've got an owner who as far as I'm aware has seen us play about three times, a middle management marketing executive as an operating officer and that's it. No-one has the stomach to make us a successful football team just so long as the money keeps rolling in.

[BlinkyBear]

I can't see funds being released (if they do indeed exist) for a manger who's going to leave in a year. It doesn't make sense for any club to invest heavily moulding a team in the vision who a person everyone knows isn't going to be there 12 months later. We'll sell a few players, buy a few underwhelming replacements and hope Chamberlain, Wilshere, Ramsey and Miyachi improve enough to see us through. If that doesn't happen I'll actually buy a Spurs shirt and dance the charleston outside the ground.

Arseblog nailed it today when they said that changes won't be made because there's no-one to make them. We've got an owner who as far as I'm aware has seen us play about three times, a middle management marketing executive as an operating officer and that's it. No-one has the stomach to make us a successful football team just so long as the money keeps rolling in.

The funds exist. The various blog posts from the likes of Swiss Ramble show this and is backed up by those close enough to the Club like Tim Payton.

The real question is why they haven't been spent in the last couple of years and this is partly due to Wenger. The suggestion was that, as a result the purchases over the Summer (Arteta, BFG, Santos et al) weren't Wengers choices but the 'board' forcing his hand and bringing people in anyways. For me we need to place the pressure back on Wenger and allow him the chance to make the team better by telling him to spend money or he won't be offered a new contract.