Watchmen

[Ozzy Womandias]

Thank you for your contribution.

[Festoon]

6 hours ago, cassidy said:

Or Snyder is a Randian loving hack who has no real understanding of the media he is consuming and converting into shit movies. 

 

Bar the opening 10 mins of the Dawn remake. I'll give him that and only that. 

 

Remember, Kyle Cooper made the opening credits, which is the best bit.

[cassidy]

10 hours ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

Thank you for your contribution.

It's not gatekeeping to recommend the original rather well regarded source material over a movie that totally misses the point of the aforementioned source material. 

[Ozzy Womandias]

Well, that's super disingenuous.

 

"I heartily recommend the superior source material" =/= "the adaptation should've never fucking been made!"

[Ste Pickford]

I'm not sure why supporting the view of a creator who specifically didn't want an adaptation made of his work is gatekeeping.

[Ozzy Womandias]

Because he isn't the only party involved in this. If he didn't want this to happen, he should've done his best to hold on to the IP.

 

Anyway, I have no quarrel with you supporting a looney, snake worshipping genius (although I do wonder why; are you perhaps a writer yourself?). I merely fail to see how the inevitable fact that a lot of people have only enjoyed Watchmen cinematically, is somehow evidence that the film should've never been made. (Anecdotal evidence ahoy, but: I myself know two people who picked up the graphic novel after seeing the film. Why would anyone wish for that to never have happened?)

 

I don't think anyone's arguing that the film is as good as the graphic novel. That's literally impossible, considering the facts that Watchmen was tailor-made for that medium, had more room to explore its themes because of its episodic nature, and, of course, wasn't inherently derivative. No, what I and many others are saying, is that, despite the nigh impossibility of an adaptation being good, the film ended up getting an incredible amount of stuff right. Most importantly: most of the novel's themes and characterisation, but also a lot of its looks, and the juxtaposition between gritty nastiness and explorative introspection.

 

I mean, shit, can you honestly watch the sequence about the birth of Dr. Manhattan without a chill running down your spine? That was better than it had any right to be, and it felt like it had literally lept from the pages.

 

 

For every miscast, weasely looking Veidt, there are at least three perfect casting choices (Comedian, Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan), and for every tacky, unnecessary sex scene there are at least a dozen of sequences that are well-made and unforgettable.

 

This film was supposed to be shit. And it turned out to be a (somewhat tonally inconsistent but) incredibly solid adaptation. How anyone can see that as an overall loss, is beyond me.

Unless, of course, one just has a personal vendetta against Snyder and this is the way to express that.

 

TL;DR: It's gatekeeping because I fail to see how Moore's wishes are more important than the cultural enrichment of thousands.

[Sexton Hardcastle]

27 minutes ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

Because he isn't the only party involved in this. If he didn't want this to happen, he should've done his best to hold on to the IP.

 

 

so so much wrong with this above post, but this opener takes the biscuit. 

[Harsin]

Who did Ozzy used to be then. It’s hard to keep up nowadays.

[Ozzy Womandias]

46 minutes ago, sexton_hardcastle said:

so so much wrong with this above post, but this opener takes the biscuit. 

 

Cry mich ein river.

 

28 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Who did Ozzy used to be then. It’s hard to keep up nowadays.

 

What?

[Ste Pickford]

3 hours ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

 If he didn't want this to happen, he should've done his best to hold on to the IP.

 

Wow.

[Ozzy Womandias]

15 hours ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

Thank you for your contribution.

 

[mindgames]

 

2 hours ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

What?

 

[SM47]

4 hours ago, Ozzy Womandias said:

This film was supposed to be shit. And it turned out to be a (somewhat tonally inconsistent but) incredibly solid adaptation.

 

No, it turned out to be a glorified Watchmen cosplay convention with almost zero effort put in to actually adapt any of it into a coherent film. Visual motifs such as the embrace between the news vendor & comic reader were just that, empty visual motifs from the source inserted shorn of any context or emotional investment with the characters. The ridiculous ultra violence was cringey adolescent bullshit, Rorschach without his mask was indistinguishable from Rorschach with his mask, the changed ending makes absolutely no sense. The icing on the cake was them rechristening the Minutemen 'The Watchmen'. Zero subtlety. Awful dogshit. 

 

The people who defend Snyder's Watchmen occupy roughly the same position on the hierarchy of taste as the people who defend the Star Wars prequels. 

[Fierce Poodle]

4 hours ago, Harsin said:

Who did Ozzy used to be then. It’s hard to keep up nowadays.

It’s clearly Kerraig. He’s not even trying to be subtle about it.

 

I guarantee he’ll be along in a minute with a thread about making statues of homeless people and then berating us all for saying what a shit idea it is.

[Death's Head]

His mistake was thinking that the squid was an issue to be solved.

[Popo]

As a consumer of films I am certainly glad the movie got made. I read the comic book later and enjoyed it just fine but I’m not an avid reader of comics.
 

I still think it’s a great movie. Yes, it’s a slavish adaptation but that’s actually not a bad thing. It translates to film quite handily - no doubt, the runtime is butt-numbingly long but the same can be said for many movies. It’s a fun story, well told. 

[Death's Head]

26 minutes ago, Peb Kacharach said:

 

But in his defense, he was pitching this before Marvel Phase 1& 2 opened up audiences to more out-there comic book adaptations. People weren't sure how Guardians of the Galaxy would land 5 years later.

 

Yeah but the squid is pretty instrumental to the story otherwise Moore wouldn’t have put it in there. It’s a comic book solution for a comic book villain, an absurd intrusion into this gritty realistic world. That he didn’t recognise this and felt it needed fixing is just another demonstration of why it shouldn’t have been made. It’s as wrong-headed an adaptation as V for Vendetta.

[Plissken]

Why would a comic book solution for a comic book villain in a comic book not need altering for an adaptation into a film?

[kensei]

The film is nowbere near worth the scorn that's been put on it. It's an imperfect adaption that sometimes misses the point but by no means the worst adaptation ever. Moore would have been equally against the recent HBO series but everyone seemed to love it. 

 

The switch made for the squid was sensible and totally understandable for film. It'd have made more sense if the rest of the film didn't try to be as slavish to the source. 

[Death's Head]

27 minutes ago, Plissken said:

Why would a comic book solution for a comic book villain in a comic book not need altering for an adaptation into a film?

 

Well I'm one of those that thinks a film never needed to be made - it’s a comic about comics. It’s style is part of its substance - the issue Fearful Symmetry, for instance. I just can’t see what any form of adaptation brings to the table. 

[ZOK]

On 31/07/2020 at 13:00, Mr Combo Breaker said:

It's not even a good movie, let alone a good adaptation of such a major work. Snyders particular brand of overcranked slo-mo violence (and shagging  ) can fuck right off.

Spot on.

[sandman]

4 hours ago, SM47 said:

 

No, it turned out to be a glorified Watchmen cosplay convention with almost zero effort put in to actually adapt any of it into a coherent film. Visual motifs such as the embrace between the news vendor & comic reader were just that, empty visual motifs from the source inserted shorn of any context or emotional investment with the characters. The ridiculous ultra violence was cringey adolescent bullshit, Rorschach without his mask was indistinguishable from Rorschach with his mask, the changed ending makes absolutely no sense. The icing on the cake was them rechristening the Minutemen 'The Watchmen'. Zero subtlety. Awful dogshit. 

 

The people who defend Snyder's Watchmen occupy roughly the same position on the hierarchy of taste as the people who defend the Star Wars prequels. 

No, it isn’t. It’s an incredibly well made film. 
 

as for Alan bloody Moore I do wish he would just stop fucking moaning. I’ve not known another comic writer moan even a tenth of much as Moore has over the years. Just get over yourself you big pillock. 
 

and while I  tv show was excellent I don’t think it holds a candle to the movie. 

[ZOK]

On 31/07/2020 at 18:22, cassidy said:

Or Snyder is a Randian loving hack who has no real understanding of the media he is consuming and converting into shit movies. 

 

Bar the opening 10 mins of the Dawn remake. I'll give him that and only that. 

Also spot on.

[Popo]

To be clear - all the evidence points to Zack Snieder having got lucky with this film. Nothing else he’s ever done has shown any semblance of talent. The fact he stuck so close to the source probably explains why it’s so enjoyable. 

[Darren]

I have mixed feelings about the Watchmen film, for all the same reasons as everyone else, but I am one of those weirdos who really likes Sucker Punch. Although, having read some of Snyder’s comments about that one, I get the impression that he doesn’t actually understand his own film, was simply aiming for a cool action flick with an excuse to feature scantily clad women as action heroes, and ended up making a more thoughtful film than he intended by accident. So I’m definitely in the “Snyder doesn’t understand Watchmen” camp but he is capable of transcending his own limitations.

[Sexton Hardcastle]

2 hours ago, sandman said:

No, it isn’t. It’s an incredibly well made film. 

and while I  tv show was excellent I don’t think it holds a candle to the movie. 

you should never go full Sandman. 

[Delargey]

[sandman]

38 minutes ago, sexton_hardcastle said:

you should never go full Sandman. 

Excuse me. What the fuck is this. You really think this is appropriate behaviour?

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Yeah. 

[Ozzy Womandias]

11 hours ago, Popo said:

To be clear - all the evidence points to Zack Snieder having got lucky with this film. Nothing else he’s ever done has shown any semblance of talent.

 

300.

 

It has its problems, but those were, ironically, basically lifted from the source material as well.

As far as adaptations go, it's fucking stellar. You can sneer at the fact that it's also an adaptation and that this somehow detracts from Sneider's skill (or merit) as a director ("he just redid the comics!") but that would just show a severe lack of understanding of what it means to direct a film. It's speaking a completely different visual language, for one.

You might not agree with his seemingly adolescent glorification of traditional, masculine virtues. You can even find his oeuvre a prime example of 'style over substance'. But to say that he doesn't have 'a semblance of talent'? Shit, that's just insultingly naive. (And I say this as someone who absolutely despises what he did to Superman. And who hated Sucker Punch with a passion.) He's no Paul Verhoeven, but he clearly understands his craft very well.