Nintendo Versus Everyone: The Business Of Business

[MK-1601]

Also, very little (nothing?) new that people didn't know, surely? Interesting if you didn't know about this already I suppose.

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True, but it clearly needs reinforcing. We've reached a point where ill-informed goons treating the games industry as a big soap opera are actually influencing (or even making) multi-million pound decisions.

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Oboe: "Most people who'll want a handheld will want something that plays more modern games"

Interesting assumption, that. Most people who currently own handhelds or most people in general?

[squirtle]

.::: It's ... mesmerizing. I didn't like the idea of a GBM, but after holding one, it's the one thing I'll surely buy this year.

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Cool. Just how big is it exactly? It was hard to judge from Reggie's oversized Donkey King like hands.

[Cyhwuhx]

Cool. Just how big is it exactly? It was hard to judge from Reggie's oversized Donkey King like hands.

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.::: NES controller (only a bit thicker).

Best estimate.

[edit] Also if there won't be any NES faceplates, heads will roll...

[Vemsie]

Just how big is it exactly? It was hard to judge from Reggie's oversized Donkey King like hands.

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[Plissken]

Everywhere from pricing in the generation before to ineffectual updates (Mario Sunshine, anyone?), through treating the European market like they barely exist. That sort of thing.

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But - and I fully realise I'm banging my head against a brick wall here - Nintendo have sold almost as many Gamecubes as Microsoft have XBoxes and are the only one consistently making a decent profit on large margins.

Just because they refuse to play the hype game and will not pour stupid amounts of money after bad, they have failed. I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.

Gaming must be the only business in the world where its own customers think they have the power of almighty judgement over the products they willingly buy without question.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Everywhere from pricing in the generation before to ineffectual updates (Mario Sunshine, anyone?), through treating the European market like they barely exist. That sort of thing.

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In the case of Sunshine & Zelda its the first time Nintendo have ever released flagship titles before they were quite finished. The quality *is* there in both games but they clearly weren't quite done. Sunshine has bugs and only half the number of levels compared to Mario 64. Zelda WW was missing at least two Dungeons. A real shame because both games are almost brilliant.

[scottcr]

" not something to go back and play old games that they've already played through before."

The target audience is people who've never played these games before and wouldn't dream of buying a PSP/DS/GBA.. because they are too big, bulky and geeky looking... however... these folks will GLADLY pay a fiver for a Java version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire on their phones.

If it's reasonably priced... expect gabillions of GBAMs to sell at christmas as stocking fillers... each one will generate about 2 game sales probably, I suspect Nintendo will bring down the price of GBA games (perhaps re-branding them in DS like boxes) and they'll larf all the way to the bank.

Meanwhile... Sony still lose money on the PSP.

[Popo]

I'll be getting me a GBAM. I think it looks great, and as the DS is a little bulky to have in your pocket, and I got rid of my GBA ages ago because i could never be bothered to get it afterburnered, I think it's time to add the machine to my library.

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Why not just get a GBA SP though?

Unlike the Micro it's available now

[Pink Oboe]

Oboe: "Most people who'll want a handheld will want something that plays more modern games"

Interesting assumption, that. Most people who currently own handhelds or most people in general?

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Both, to an extent. Those who currently own handhelds, because why bother buying something which does less than the DS they already own (or as much as the GBA that they already own). And those who don't because it's going to take something pretty special to convince them buy (as they probably aren't particularly enthusiastic gamers in the first place) - and the dated graphics of a GBA game isn't going to do that.

I don't think it's going to tank - it'll be sold at a profit, and it will sell some. But I just can't see it being a major cash cow. It's just retro gaming given a glizty makeover, and outside of places like this, people just aren't that interested.

The overwhelming reaction on seeing it from most of my gamer friends has been "yeah, looks nice enough, don't really see the point though, I won't be buying one".

[Pink Oboe]

The target audience is people who've never played these games before and wouldn't dream of buying a PSP/DS/GBA.. because they are too big, bulky and geeky looking... however... these folks will GLADLY pay a fiver for a Java version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire on their phones.

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They already have a mobile phone, they've got bored enough to delve into the games option. That's the hook with mobile phone games - you own the format already, the games are pretty cheap, and you carry this thing round with all the time anyway.

There's no comparable hook with the GBM other than "it looks nice and it'll hopefully be cheap". Against which you've got that the graphics don't look very good up against other handhelds, it's another thing you've got to carry round in your pocket, the games are quite expensive (unless you buy second hand, which won't benefit Nintendo anyway), and the intertia of actually buying a new toy.

Edit: How did those retro NES GBA titles sell, out of interest? Does anyone know?

[Project 2501]

Whatever sensible points that article raises, it doesn't change the fact that they are still doomed according to the BBC

Article Here

Apparently the DS has failed to achieve sales expectations and the gamecube is doomed in the face of the PS3 and 360

[jiroczech]

I sympathise with Poet's feeling that Nintendo have let down gamers with the last two generations of hardware but I doubt they care. Gamers (e.g. hardcore, obsessive types like most of us here) are a niche market.

Nintendo's success isn't built on selling stuff to people like us.

[Andy_Tanner]

i'm sure Nintendo will strategically release some high profile games when the Micro launches, possibly rebranded as someone else has said. so even people who already have a GBA/SP or DS will see it and, if priced right, buy it on impulse to play their new game on.

it can't fail: each unit will make a profit. no further research and development costs because it's old tech. a boost to GBA sales.

it's good sound business sense.

[Pink Oboe]

i'm sure Nintendo will strategically release some high profile games when the Micro launches, possibly rebranded as someone else has said. so even people who already have a GBA/SP or DS will see it and, if priced right, buy it on impulse to play their new game on.

it can't fail: each unit will make a profit. no further research and development costs because it's old tech. a boost to GBA sales.

it's good sound business sense.

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I've never said it'll fail. Just that I disagreed with the writer of that article when he said it was going to produce a "gold" financial return.

[Popo]

It still costs to manufacture them, not to mention all the money that will be lost on unsold GBA SPs and potential losses on the DS...

I still think it's apparent folly to, esentially, undercut yourself...

[Andy_Tanner]

I've never said it'll fail. Just that I disagreed with the writer of that article when he said it was going to produce a "gold" financial return.

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i don't know what Nintendo's forecasts are but based on previous sales of their handhelds (even just remodelled ones) and games titles, i think he makes a strong case.

[sentient]

Nintendo's success isn't built on selling stuff to people like us.

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I thought the article claimed it was?

[Tiki]

Man, leave it to rllmuk to destroy someone over a small matter of interpretation. Wasn't it obvious what Oboe meant from his first post? Whether he's right or not is another matter but taking issue with someone calling the GBM a "gold" financial isn't the wrongest thing anyone ever said.

[Andy_Tanner]

Man, leave it to rllmuk to destroy someone over a small matter of interpretation.  Wasn't it obvious what Oboe meant from his first post?  Whether he's right or not is another matter but taking issue with someone calling the GBM a "gold" financial isn't the wrongest thing anyone ever said.

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who is that aimed at ?

[M.M.S]

Whatever sensible points that article raises, it doesn't change the fact that they are still doomed according to the BBC

Article Here

Apparently the DS has failed to achieve sales expectations and the gamecube is doomed in the face of the PS3 and 360 

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thats what i don't get, Nintendo are always setting sales targets themselves for various hardware and software, which they haven't been meeting for a long time now. it just makes everything look negative for them.

although i agree with the article for the most part upto the present, it bases Nintendo's future success on staying profitable in the hand-held market and doing OK in the home-market holding onto it's usual "kids" audience.

these 2 things i just don't see happening now that Sony have the PSP. the DS is amazing, but even if it was 10x better it'll still cause Nintendo to lose market share...so thats where the GBAmicro comes in right, regenorating software sales etc? sounds good in practise, but as many have said, i doubt it's going to do all that well, just making a modarate profit.

As for the Rev, even though it's doesnt seem a financial risk, it could turn out to be a gameplay one. even without this fact i feel Sony have been eating into Nintendo's kids market for a long while now, with far superior platformers (and quantity) on the PS2 than GC, not to mention many other kid-friendly games.

all IMO of course, and also i'd like to add my feeling of being slightly let down by Nintendo this gen with their updates (Prime aside). a guess people just get a bit negative about Nintendo because they can see the potential they have to do much better than they are doing. not that they arent doing fine as the article says, but they could be doing even better AND give gamers (hardcore fans) what they want...

[Project 2501]

Demand for Nintendo's DS portable game machine is expected to pick up from last year after sales of the two-screen player did not live up to expectations.

Nintendo said it expected to sell 12.4 million DS devices, up from 5.3 million in the previous 12 months.

This is the part of the article I have a problem with, how can they have failed to reach a 12 month sales target when the device has only been on the market for half that? The writers figures and conjecture don't add up.

[kev]

But - and I fully realise I'm banging my head against a brick wall here - Nintendo have sold almost as many Gamecubes as Microsoft have XBoxes and are the only one consistently making a decent profit on large margins.

Just because they refuse to play the hype game and will not pour stupid amounts of money after bad, they have failed. I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.

Gaming must be the only business in the world where its own customers think they have the power of almighty judgement over the products they willingly buy without question.

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true. i expect the problem is it looks like they're failing. i mean, each of their home consoles has sold successively fewer units. of course, it's hardly a surprise - they've had stronger competition in each successive generation.

[hub2]

Edit: How did those retro NES GBA titles sell, out of interest? Does anyone know?

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CLASSIC NES SERIES: SUPER MARIO BROS. - 494,895

CLASSIC NES SERIES: THE LEGEND OF ZELDA - 326,030

CLASSIC NES SERIES: DONKEY KONG - 278,513

CLASSIC NES SERIES: DR. MARIO - 196,259

CLASSIC NES SERIES: PAC-MAN - 189,962

CLASSIC NES SERIES: ZELDA II: ADVENTURE OF LINK - 173,919

CLASSIC NES SERIES: EXCITEBIKE - 78,696

CLASSIC NES SERIES: METROID - 84,527

CLASSIC NES SERIES: CASTLEVANIA - 76,314

CLASSIC NES SERIES: ICE CLIMBER - 53,687

CLASSIC NES SERIES: BOMBERMAN - 51,320

CLASSIC NES SERIES: XEVIOUS - 37,733

NA only as far as I'm aware and figures are accurate up to early April.

[Stolly]

I absolutely wish Nintendo every success but, as a company owned by shareholders, to be profitable on its own is not enough. Just think of the criticism that Marks & Spencer took with profits of £618 million - their trouble was that they had fallen 20% from the year before.

Shareholders want ever increasing profits otherwise they sell up or look to change the management to improve their chances of achieving it. Nintendo's share price (relative to the Nikei 225 index) is doing ok of late see here but that's following a pretty big drop from what once was. So to continue to make 20% profit on turnover is only a good thing if turnover is likely to increase.

I think they have successfully convinced the market that they know what they are doing on the handheld side but as far as the GC or the Revolution is concerned I'm not sure. Here's hoping.

Edit: Having said that from a share price point of view Sony are doing much worse. Look at this Sony vs Nintendo

Apologies, the charts don't remember updates. Basically Nintendo's share price has fallen 25% in the last 5 years whilst Sony's has fallen 50%.

[Tiki]

NA only as far as I'm aware and figures are accurate up to early April.

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Where do you get those figures from out of interest?

EDIT: I don't mean that in a dickhead way - I'd find it useful at work if I could get hold of sales figures easily but I can never find them.

[Tiki]

who is that aimed at ?

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I can't remember, everyone who argued with him over the semantics of the word "gold".

It just seemed obvious what he meant but people on here love to discuss the little things 'til they're blue in the face/

[Pink Oboe]

NA only as far as I'm aware and figures are accurate up to early April.

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Cheers mate, much app'd.

[scottcr]

"these 2 things i just don't see happening now that Sony have the PSP. "

Armies of kids around the world, in play grounds, sitting in the back of cars keeping quiet while dad drives them during the holidays, keeping quiet in planes... all using GBAs.

Most likely, they won't be getting PSPs.

Folks buy kids GBAs to keep them quiet, and they're cheap enough to be justified. But... if the kid wants a 180 quid PSP AND a PS3 or Xbox360... I doubt they'll get it.

The PSP is aimed at folks our age... and while it'll be snapped up by the gadget freaks on release, I think it's less likely to sell in the massive bulk that the GBA has. Nintendo release an even cheaper and smaller version of the GBA, and even more distraught parents summer holiday probelms are solved...

oh... and UMD discs are definately NOT child friendly.

[M.M.S]

NA only as far as I'm aware and figures are accurate up to early April.

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wow amazing figures! didnt buy a single one myself, but i'm sure those that did are pretty happy. does this help us have any better indication on how the GBAmicro will do? not sure why but i'm more optomistic of it's chances now, even though again, i doubt i'll get one personally.

[Plissken]

true. i expect the problem is it looks like they're failing.

To who?

The accountants? The stock market? Anyone who can read a balance sheet can see, quite easily, that Nintendo are a consistently profitable company.

Or to gamers who like to pronounce on the state of the industry like demi-gods. Nintendo are a failure for making a profit, Microsoft are a success for losing $3 billion.

<paraphrase Arthur Dent>

You're all loonies!

</paraphrase Arthur Dent>