Tekken 5

[Scruff]

I got this on Saturday. £11 old English pounds from Playasia for the Jap(english text) version. Certainly a better price then the £120 I paid for Tekken 3 from Raven Games

I bought, but never bothered with Tekken Tag, and skipped Tekken 4, but this seems very similier to Tekken 3. Which is a good thing.

Still prefer SC though.

[Solemkin]

To be honest I haven't got that.

Shame.

Worth it then?

Definitely. Biggest, prettiest, most-balanced, and overall bestest Guilty Gear/2D Fighter evar.

Sell it to me.

Shave! I'm not gonna sell you my favourite 2D fighter!

After the stupid version with the button to turn I picked up in Tokyo I gave up on that series.

You have Isuka? Cool. Yeah, the turning's crap, but it supports 4 player franticness. Which is always good.

Anyway, XX Reload's a much better fighter than Isuka (which is more like the Smash Brothers game of the series). And it pisses on Street Fighter and even a bit on KOF. Only Garou comes close to it's pwnage. Get it.

[McFly]

In Tekken, you're not pressing "kick". You're pressing right kick, so the character does a right kick. You're saying the left/right punch/kick system doesn't make any sense.

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Its this system that makes Tekken my prefered 3D fighting series as to me its the most obvious and easiest to understand method, a button for each limb. What could be simplier? Nothing.

[Jim Miles]

I'll elaborate.

It doesn't make any sense. The whole "1 button per limb stuff" doesn't work. Characters will do moves using both limbs sometimes when you press one of the buttons (e.g. King's low dropkick) and the characters will usually keep the same stance (in VF, if your character has the left foot forward, guess what? They're most likely to use the other foot to launch a kick! Amazing). Half the moves are too similar, and the 10-hit combo rubbish is the epitome of how to play Tekken - just remember as much as you can, and you'll probably do alright.

In Tekken, a complete beginner could easily beat a competent player, or the other way around. It's very random. I'm sure an expert would probably beat anybody, but that would require a ludicrous amount of time and memory. The more effort you put in VF, the more likely the victory. A beginner has no chance (just like in Pro Evo, see), and that's the way it should be. You should get as much out of it as you put in.

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Maybe the rest reads like 'VF is so far ahead of Tekken it's a joke', I don't know.

VF is based on skill and practice. It has an intelligent evading system. It has clearly defined rules and boundaries. Tekken is based on luck, very old mechanics, and ambiguous rules 'n' such.

It might be that I've played VF for longer, I don't know. My point is that Tekken's form of logic is far more difficult to understand than VF's, and is yet the simpler game.

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Cheers. I don't agree with everything you say, but I'm glad you elaborated.

I think my problem with most Tekken criticisms is that the criticisers don't accept that serious, expert Tekken play requires knowing (pretty much) every single move and combo in the game. If you don't, your opponent will find out what you don't know and exploit it (see: ten strings). Any serious Tekken player can beat a noob just by "out knowledging" them. That's how the game is - it only really gets interesting when both players know what they're doing. Like, in Chess you can learn a few "book openings" and beat people who know how to play but haven't bothered reading up on well-known "strats". A crap book opening is like a 10-string. Against a good player, it will be punished but against a noob it's a pretty nasty way to force a win.

Tekken is plagued by an attitude that 10-strings are cheap, perpetuated by people who can't be bothered to learn them for the purposes of countering. To a serious Tekken player 10-strings are barely even worth mentioning - you just need to know the best way to punish each one, job done.

[Dave White]

I gave up after 3.

This is something special I loove the variety of fighting styles.

It's like 2 all over again but better.

And how good does it look!!!!??

[squirtle]

I gave this a rental today. Hmmm... It's ok as beat em ups go. But... That last boss. Why do designers put uber shit final bosses in beat em ups with loads of cheap moves and the like. It's so pissing annoying. And it looks quite nice. Not DOA nice, thats for sure, but still, nice enough.

[kamrantaz]

embarrassingly ive never owned a tekken game. Might as well get this for £11 then.

[robdood]

Ok, the point I was trying to make was, before, is; as much as I love Tekken (and I do love it) - soul calibur and VF are aeons ahead of it in terms of variety in combat. If you cannot see this - just as you say I have not played Tekken enough (which I have) - then I say you have not played enough VF or Soul Cal.

[robdood]

I gave this a rental today. Hmmm... It's ok as beat em ups go. But... That last boss. Why do designers put uber shit final bosses in beat em ups with loads of cheap moves and the like. It's so pissing annoying. And it looks quite nice. Not DOA nice, thats for sure, but still, nice enough.

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Because fighting games are about playing other human beings, tbh

[TheShend]

It's a shame i havent an affinity for the 3D fighters, because i'm sure this and this are pretty sick, if I understood what was happening

3rd Strike for life yo! Jim, you watched all those vids now?

[squirtle]

Because fighting games are about playing other human beings, tbh

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Yeah, true, but I don't have anyone to play against, and quite like fighting through the story modes.

[mechamonkey]

Absolutely loving 5, it feels just like 3 but prettier.

You can fight in the middle of a load of penguins = 10/10 !

Definately my fave fighter right now.

[Jim Miles]

It's a shame i havent an affinity for the 3D fighters, because i'm sure this and this are pretty sick, if I understood what was happening

3rd Strike for life yo! Jim, you watched all those vids now?

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I have indeed! They're incredible I really like Frankie3S showing how to properly use Ryu. His use of that unblockable super fireball is rapacious. And the chanting of "USA" for him is classic!

It's nice to see more of "RX", he seems to turn up in just about every set of match videos ever. He makes juggling with Urien look so easy - I tried out some of his tricks and either I'm rubbish or the timing has to be PERFECT.

Yeah, thanks

[Spiral]

A conversation with someone sitting right next to me has revealed one major flaw with the game: The practise mode is shit. Not berating the gameplay itself, which is the best of the Tekken games I've played, but to leave out the ability to run through a characters movelist without having to pause and go back to look at the moves is fucking appalling. Given the more than adequate mode in DOA and the excellent training modes in VF4 it's boggling how after six Tekken games and the Soul Caliburs as well Namco could keep missing something so basic, especially when they've nicked the pretty but useless character customisation.

[Pungee]

I haven't really played a Tekken game properly before but I'm really enjoying this and after suffering repeated defeats at the hands of my eight year old cousin, I'm determined to get good at it

I haven't settled on a character yet, I'm torn between Yoshimitsu, Kazuya and that detective fella with the pink shirt (Lei?)

But, yeah, it's wicked.

[jayboy]

A conversation with someone sitting right next to me has revealed one major flaw with the game:  The practise mode is shit.  Not berating the gameplay itself, which is the best of the Tekken games I've played, but to leave out the ability to run through a characters movelist without having to pause and go back to look at the moves is fucking appalling.  Given the more than adequate mode in DOA and the excellent training modes in VF4 it's boggling how after six Tekken games and the Soul Caliburs as well Namco could keep missing something so basic, especially when they've nicked the pretty but useless character customisation.

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I thought exactly the same thing.

After playing VF 4, having to hit pause every time you want to learn a new move is so annoying. Even though I think Tekken 5 is a great game, I like to master at least one character in my beat em ups, and doing so in Tekken 5 is so painfully dull and frustrating.

Its so bad I might return it.

[Spiral]

I thought exactly the same thing.

After playing VF 4, having to hit pause every time you want to learn a new move is so annoying. Even though I think Tekken 5 is a great game, I like to master at least one character in my beat em ups, and doing so in Tekken 5 is so painfully dull and frustrating.

Its so bad I might return it.

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I wouldn't go that far. It's certainly far removed from the complete travesty that was Tekken 4 on the PS2, and I did take that back. It is annoying like you say, but once you get into the game it's quite fun. I'll always prefer the VF4 control system since I've used it for far longer, but I'll take what competition I can get and my flatmates seem to prefer it at the minute. Plus it's more of a level footing for them to start from. 'Cos I'm shit.

[essell]

the 10-hit combo rubbish is the epitome of how to play Tekken

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

Tekken is based on luck, very old mechanics, and ambiguous rules 'n' such.

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

In Tekken, a complete beginner could easily beat a competent player, or the other way around. It's very random.

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

bloody mary.

[Pungee]

I take it all back, this game is awful.

Bastard Jinpachi...

[Liquid Myth]

A conversation with someone sitting right next to me has revealed one major flaw with the game:  The practise mode is shit.  Not berating the gameplay itself, which is the best of the Tekken games I've played, but to leave out the ability to run through a characters movelist without having to pause and go back to look at the moves is fucking appalling.  Given the more than adequate mode in DOA and the excellent training modes in VF4 it's boggling how after six Tekken games and the Soul Caliburs as well Namco could keep missing something so basic, especially when they've nicked the pretty but useless character customisation.

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Apparently, Sega had patented the format in which the list scrolls through in the Virtua Fighter series.

[essell]

Bastard Jinpachi...

i second that. good game or not, jinpachi's a bloody disgrace. don't know what namco were thinking.

[gravity0]

3rd Strike for life yo!

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TheShend - spreading 3S love in almost every fighting game thread posted.

I love you, man.

[Garwoofoo]

I take it all back, this game is awful.

Bastard Jinpachi...

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I feel your pain.

For the sake of unlocking the characters, I've ended up putting the game into Easy mode and setting the Rounds to 1. I can normally fluke a single win against Jinpachi pretty quickly, it's getting two in a row that takes about an hour. So this will enable me to barrel through Story mode a few times, unlock everything, then get back to the fun stuff (two-player, Survival and Arcade mode, where the fat fucker doesn't appear).

Everything else about this is wonderful. I even quite like Devil Within.

[Jim Miles]

When I first got the game I set it to two rounds, max difficulty and played through story mode with Paul. I beat Jinpachi on my second attempt. This post might look like me saying "I'm so good look at me!" and to an extent it is, but there's a more serious point that some characters are much much easier to win against the computer with than others. Paul's Deathfist has always been lethal against the computer, for some reason they go for stupid moves when they see it and end up eating fist. In contrast, I'm finding the computer to be an absolute bastard against my Hwoarang - they anticipate moves to a rather unrealistic accuracy. But like someone said (and it's true), fighting games are really all about the human competition! It's not too difficult to make an unbeatable AI that just reads inputs (as I'm sure Tekken sometimes does).

[TheShend]

TheShend - spreading 3S love in almost every fighting game thread posted.

I love you, man.

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And you say I'M the gay one

Not to derail this thread any further but you got the latest GVision ranking battle? I hear there's an absolute nutter of an Oro in there, i can't wait to watch it

They had tekken 5 on in gamestattion manchester (Arndale) i had a bash through with what looked like a Gato lookalike when a group of kids came in and proceded to bounce on my face with Yoshimitsu (sp?) Oh man, so humbling.

I left shortly afterwards with comradrie soundbites like "You got knocked the fuck out! Hah yeah, i got bare moves!"

Yeah, well, if it were the 'other' fighter instead, they'd be mine, oh yes, humilated by a stumpy yellow man with one arm

[robdood]

Apparently, Sega had patented the format in which the list scrolls through in the Virtua Fighter series.

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er.. are u kidding? cos it is exactly the same in DOA..

[essell]

It's not too difficult to make an unbeatable AI that just reads inputs (as I'm sure Tekken sometimes does).

reading inputs isn't even the problem though - it's jinpachi's 70-odd damage double fireball, ridiculous stun move and random invincibility during moves. bloody daft, it is...

[robdood]

When I saw the early screens of Tekken 5, I straight away thought, 'Im going to master Jinpachi - just look at his HAIR/BEARD!'. Such a shame he turned out to be the stupid boss.

He's almost as unfair as Gargus on KI2..

[Willei]

Jinpachi is easy well easy - just sidestep his fireballs and play him like you would a human opponent. Apart from that silly stun move (especially when combined with the attack that recovers his life) he hasn't really got anything to worry about.

[Kelthink]

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

err... no it's not. that's what people usually say when they're too biased to play the game properly, and learn to play well.

bloody mary.

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Right then: tell me, magic man, to why I should prefer Tekken over VF. I tried playing it with an open mind, but a lot of it makes NO FUCKING SENSE after playing VF. I doubt half the people having a go at me have even played the bloody thing for more than five minutes - I've given Tekken a weekend, and all it seems to be is 'learn these strings etc.'. In VF the most important aspect is learning the basics, which apply to ALL characters - evading, how it should be done, quick dashes, simple throws and kicks, closed/open stance. Tekken makes me ANGRY and CONFUSED.