Killzone - Ps3

[Roboplegic Wrongcock]

Bloody hell is this thread still going on?

If those were in game graphics well done Sony/Guerrilla.

But...if those were renders then Sony has just cut there own throats.

[MK-1601]

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Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PlayStation 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Just let it go, your making yourself look more stupid with every post you make.

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Sigh. That still doesn't say it's prerendered. Can you not read?

[Eighthours]

MK: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit..... Right?

[tiedtiger]

Sigh. That still doesn't say it's prerendered. Can you not read?

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Jan Bart:

Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Come on, give it up

[Spatial]

<--- This thread

[MK-1601]

Jan Bart:

Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Come on, give it up

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Hmm, much like 3DMark01 contained a real-time (in-engine) representation of Max Payne, that made everyone's jaws drop at the time but looked pretty meh about a year later?

I'm not defending the trend to use demos to deceive the public, I'm simply pointing out that it's not acceptable to make claims about people's work without tangible evidence. Sony haven't said one way or another what was real-time and what was prerendered in their showreel (bad). A couple of people in this thread have stated as fact that the KZ sequence was prerendered based on zero evidence (worse).

[Graham S]

A couple of people in this thread have stated as fact that the KZ sequence was prerendered based on zero evidence (worse).

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And some others have clearly listed reasons why it is pre-rendered in their reasonably expert opinion. Others in reasonably well connected positions have stated industry rumour that KZ in particular was rendered at Axis.

You seem to have no evidence to persist in your belief that it was definitely real time and in-engine? Can't you concede it is probably (not definitely) pre-rendered (for some definition of pre-rendered)?

[tiedtiger]

Hmm, much like 3DMark01 contained a real-time (in-engine) representation of Max Payne, that made everyone's jaws drop at the time but looked pretty meh about a year later?

I'm not defending the trend to use demos to deceive the public, I'm simply pointing out that it's not acceptable to make claims about people's work without tangible evidence. Sony haven't said one way or another what was real-time and what was prerendered in their showreel (bad). A couple of people in this thread have stated as fact that the KZ sequence was prerendered based on zero evidence (worse).

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Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

[The Liberal Elite]

Hmm, much like 3DMark01 contained a real-time (in-engine) representation of Max Payne, that made everyone's jaws drop at the time but looked pretty meh about a year later?

I'm not defending the trend to use demos to deceive the public, I'm simply pointing out that it's not acceptable to make claims about people's work without tangible evidence. Sony haven't said one way or another what was real-time and what was prerendered in their showreel (bad). A couple of people in this thread have stated as fact that the KZ sequence was prerendered based on zero evidence (worse).

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And you seem pretty naive in the way you're simply accepted this as running in realtime. it's done in lightwave. People who work with it for a living have pointed out the telltale use of lightwave specific filters, particularly in the explosions.

Neuromancer's quote is basically the icing on the cake.

Do youthink that if they'd manage that far in the game's development that the damn thing would basically be ready for launch now, instead in about a year and a half?

[MK-1601]

And some others have clearly listed reasons why it is pre-rendered in their reasonably expert opinion.

Which is fair enough, as they're not claiming their opinion is fact.

Others in reasonably well connected positions have stated industry rumour that KZ in particular was rendered at Axis.

Which they have offered no proof for. Until they do, this falls under the heading of 'lying to impress strangers on the internet', and can be assumed to have originated from the Teamxbox forums or somewhere equally desperate.

You seem to have no evidence to persist in your belief that it was definitely real time and in-engine? Can't you concede it is probably (not definitely) pre-rendered (for some definition of pre-rendered)?

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The evidence available heavily suggests that there has been some trickery, but the comments that we've had from different sources (as well as the content of the video itself) don't suggest that it could have only been prerendered. The scenario that Sony are suggesting (which makes logical sense, and is corroborated by the proven real-time demos in the presentation) is that the development teams created their demos using the PS3 devkits and a fixed estimate of the final spec. This is a big difference from making a completely unlimited, prerendered film.

[MK-1601]

And you seem pretty naive in the way you're simply accepted this as running in realtime.

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I haven't. And then you immediately start launching into completely unsubstantiated bullshit again. Don't you get bored?

[Graham S]

The scenario that Sony are suggesting (which makes logical sense, and is corroborated by the proven real-time demos in the presentation) is that the development teams created their demos using the PS3 devkits and a fixed estimate of the final spec. This is a big difference from making a completely unlimited, prerendered film.

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I read Phil Harrison's remarks on EG as meaning that they could have been developed on anything up to and including a mssive renderfarm if necessasry, using whatever tools they liked, as long as results were roughly comparable with what they expect PS3 games to look like eventually, that is they were "in line with spec".

The realtime demos (and the Getaway technical test, which I think PH also claimed was done on a devkit) are a different matter entirely.

[MK-1601]

I read Phil Harrison's remarks on EG as meaning that they could have been developed on anything up to and including a mssive renderfarm if necessasry, using whatever tools they liked, as long as results were roughly comparable with what they expect PS3 games to look like eventually, that is they were "in line with spec".

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True, but the demo doesn't push the boat out that far, and has plenty of cut corners / glitches (missing shadows, reused models/textures, lots of very this-gen looking particle effects) that wouldn't be necessary if it was prerendered... I just don't think that Guerilla would have been that cunning.

[The Liberal Elite]

I haven't. And then you immediately start launching into completely unsubstantiated bullshit again. Don't you get bored?

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well, you could have fooled me. The 'unsubstatiated bullshit' is based on observations of people I trust, who work with CGI, not random rumours I've read off gaming age or whatever. The truth will out sooner or later, and when it does, I'll return to this thread to laugh and laugh and laugh.

[pretentious_helvetica]

At this point I'd like to retract my statement earlier in this thread that this footage was real-time. I was in a state of "what if" and dazzlement when I saw it, but now rational thought has took over. Plus I remembered when Sony brought us those "mock-ups" of The Getaway which they've repeated again with PS3 "screenshots".

Still, casual gamers will eat all this lie pie with a spoon and not be fussed.

[MK-1601]

well, you could have fooled me. The 'unsubstatiated bullshit' is based on observations of people I trust, who work with CGI, not random rumours I've read off gaming age or whatever. The truth will out sooner or later, and when it does, I'll return to this thread to laugh and laugh and laugh.

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I have used no 'random rumours' to come to my decision.

Stating "it's done in lightwave." is unsubstantiated bullshit if you're not able to prove that it's true.

[pretentious_helvetica]

IGN's take on it.

There you have it! IGN believes, overwhelmingly, that the video is a fake. That's where we stand. Prove us wrong, Guerilla. Prove us wrong.

May be a DeLorean, click away if not.

[The Liberal Elite]

I have used no 'random rumours' to come to my decision.

Stating "it's done in lightwave." is unsubstantiated bullshit if you're not able to prove that it's true.

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Interesting. So the opinion of someone with a good knowledge of what the program is capable of should be dismissed, just like that, simply because they don't actually have the file sitting open in front of them?

[MK-1601]

Interesting. So the opinion of someone with a good knowledge of what the program is capable of should be dismissed, just like that, simply because they don't actually have the file sitting open in front of them?

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It can't be stated as fact. Do you see?

And did you miss the comments of people in this thread who are familiar with graphics tech and yet gave wildly differing opinions?

[tiedtiger]

It can't be stated as fact. Do you see?

Oh will someone change the record?

And did you miss the comments of people in this thread who are familiar with graphics tech and yet gave wildly differing opinions?

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Nope. They pretty consistently say 'you're off yer nut' for a variety of reasons. Really MK, what more do you want? Apply the tiniest shred of Occam's Razor to this situation would you please?

[Vemsie]

Can't we just wait and see how it turns out instead of running around in circles?

[Eighthours]

FFS, this is just getting delusional!

Face it, if it was real-time, Sony would have come out and said, "Stop speculating about Killzone, guys. The footage is real. It kicks ass. In your face, Allard, you lose!!!"

The prevaricating about it clearly 100% indicates that it's not realtime on PS3 spec (or near PS3 spec) tech, even without all the massive, massive, MASSIVE evidence from people involved in creating this stuff, and those actually working on PS3 software.

Smoke and fucking mirrors. I really can't believe that people are being so fanboyish that they won't accept it. And yes, if you still believe it, you are a fanboy. Sorry, I know the truth's hard to swallow, and I know you still wouldn't accept it if the programmers came round your house and stood right next to you shouting into a 6 feet high megaphone that it wasn't real, but you're just making a laughing stock out of yourselves now, guys.

I pray that someone saves this topic, so in a couple of years time we can all have a fucking good laugh at you. Cos you deserve it now. Any sympathy I had is long gone!

[Robo_1]

It's clearly pre-rendered, though I've little doubt Killzone 3 will look remarkably similar.

[MK-1601]

Nope. They pretty consistently say 'you're off yer nut' for a variety of reasons. Really MK, what more do you want?

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Andy didn't. Roadkill didn't. Everyone I've asked who's working on PS3 stuff haven't been able to say decisively one way or another. Only mouth-breathers like The-Pope! have tried to attack me because I won't accept their differing opinion as fact. But sure, select the opinions that suit your own, ignore the rest...

[scottcr]

did sony show *any* real time demos of gameplay on the PS3? With the Killzone thing, they came in, convinced everyone for long enough that it was real (without saying so)... and it served their purpose. It spectacularly took attention away from the 360. On hindsite, I reckon ninty's decision to not show the revolution was smart as well... time will tell I suppose.. it would've gotten lost in the shadow of the PS3, particularly that they're not interested in playing spec based pissing contests.

[breaksmith]

What I want to know is if this discussion is real time, predecided or just an indication of what future arguments will look like.

[Eighthours]

What I want to know is if this discussion is real time, predecided or just an indication of what future arguments will look like.

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All of the above, I think!

[roadkill]

did sony show *any* real time demos of gameplay on the PS3?

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If you want to get anal no one's shown any gameplay on any next gen machines because they don't exist yet.

[madkiwi]

they showed two real-time demos that i can remember. one showed a garage explosion. looked impressive, but no-where near as complicated as the kz2 demo. they also showed a on-the-fly render of terrain using sattelite imagery.

i'd guess it's way too early for anyone to produce something of the quality of the kz2/motorstorm videos. all i can hope is that they can achieve a final product close to them.

[scottcr]

spose so...

E3's not been that great this year tbh.