Doctor Who

[Hexx]

Was the Dr's new coat explained/mentioned?

[cassidy]

Eh? It didn't.

it did something odd otherwise why say fish fingers and custard. How did the TARDIS know.

[Mogster]

it did something odd otherwise why say fish fingers and custard. How did the TARDIS know.

They're the words Amy herself used in the TARDIS when swearing on "something that mattered". That, and the TARDIS knows the Doctor rather well.

[Kyouma]

"Doctor? Doctor Who?"

[Ravern]

It was all a little too conveniently wrapped up as usual but it was so ridiculous and genuinely hilarious I couldn't help but love it.

I think "convenient" is a slightly unfair way of saying that it has tied together very neatly. The idea of River transferring regenerations and therefore that it why her death was final is beautiful in its neatness, and suggests a level of skill in forethought and storyline design that is unparalleled in other New Who, and most other UK television for that matter.

[palaver]

I think "convenient" is a slightly unfair way of saying that it has tied together very neatly. The idea of River transferring regenerations and therefore that it why her death was final is beautiful in its neatness, and suggests a level of skill in forethought and storyline design that is unparalleled in other New Who, and most other UK television for that matter.

Up to a point, the transferring regenerations thing was the only thing I really had an issue with as it was a tad too handwavey, everything else to do with River and how it turns out in the...erm...past(?!) was really excellent and I thoroughly agree that you wouldn't see that in too many other TV series, UK or not!

[Made of Ghosts]

So was there any reason for a) the fish custard thing, and b) the doc wearing a top hat & tails?

[Hexx]

A) Fish Fingers and Custard - Maybe the TARDIS heard it was the "something important" Amy swore to the Doctor in 6x01 when he asked to prove herself

B) You always waste time when you have none!

[lordcookie]

My Sky box decided not to record this so is there a repeat on? There used to be a BBC3 repeat on Sundays but there isn't one this week.

EDIT: Never mind, found a repeat on Friday.

[Nick R]

Oh and the question is blatently

Doctor Who?

Either that or "What do you get when you multiply six by nine?"

[Professor Puzzles]

Or 'how many roads must a man walk down?'

[Professor Puzzles]

So was there any reason for a) the fish custard thing,

I'm not sure exactly what that whole little scene was about, I probably wasn't concentrating properly.

EDIT: Oh, wait wait wait... when she said 'Fish fingers and custard' that was actually like him remembering her saying that rather than the voice activation thingy saying it itself I think.

[c-cat114]

So does River's gift to the Doctor increase his number of personal regenerations? (Assuming that anything RTD has done in the past can't be considered to stand?) It has scope to, certainly.

Also: all actors were on top form for the ep. Loved it except for a couple of hang ups/niggles. The antibodies weren't as good as their lines deserved and the twists are basically rehashes of twists we've had in the past. I thoroughly enjoyed it but can't help but feel that Moffat shouldn't get a free ride on one of the traps that RTD kept falling into (rehashing the same ideas/memes over and over).

((also I can't quite shake the feeling that the River Song twist from last half series basically wasn't gobsmacking or exciting or anything really. In fact it felt a little clumsy and only diminishes the mythos of the character to have something we'd all guessed and hoped would be a better solution as the final outcome. Not as crap as RTD's Face of Boe swansong that said, which was heartbreakingly rubbish, but on the same page nonetheless. I do like the fact that now River has officially 'killed' the Doctor we can open out who could have been in the suit and play about with the mystery more, theoretically anyhow.))

That said: thoroughly ace. Moffat's Doctor is a joy to be waiting for each Saturday to arrive for.

Also also I like the fact that he budget nowadays must be so large for Who that they can afford to create a huge set (and a couple more substantial settings) just to do a few minutes of story.

The question is surely going to be:

How'd you like them apples, Russel?

[MDY]

Neogaf during the ep about Mel:

Oh god.... they've brought in Poochy

She needs to be louder, angrier and have access to a-- WAITAMINUTE!

Hmmm wonder if they kept the 'robot that can look like anyone'? Could come in handy...

[Lothar Hex]

"Rory, lock Hitler in the cupboard!"

That made me laugh far too much

[RikC]

So does River's gift to the Doctor increase his number of personal regenerations? (Assuming that anything RTD has done in the past can't be considered to stand?) It has scope to, certainly.

Just what I was thinking. Does the Doc now have ten remaining regenerations instead of just two? It would put off the whole twelve regenerations, then death debate for about thirty years!

Anyone else find Alex Kingston incredibly alluring in this ep? I would do unspeakably filthy things to her!

The episode was quite good, too.

[DeNeo]

I think "convenient" is a slightly unfair way of saying that it has tied together very neatly. The idea of River transferring regenerations and therefore that it why her death was final is beautiful in its neatness, and suggests a level of skill in forethought and storyline design that is unparalleled in other New Who, and most other UK television for that matter.

They said the way she died would be enough to kill a Timelord, so it didn't really need to be done.

But it does take away the possibility of seeing any other regenerations for River, which is definitely a good thing. Today's was a massive surprise and I'm glad it'll stay as something unique, not something we'll see happen a load more.

[Space Gibbon]

I enjoyed this episode...and yet I can't help but feel a little disappointed by it at the same time. Probably because we've had to wait months for it. I was expecting more of a story about the consequences of killing Hitler, whereas the Nazi Germany setting was largely incidental for most of the story.

Totally don't understand how fish fingers and custard made everything all right for a while.

And is Madame Kovarian part of 'The Silence'?

It seems weird that the clerics in The Time of Angels would be one the side of River's captors from Stormcage when they were trying to kill the Doctor in A Good Man Goes to War.

Is it possible that River kills not the Doctor, but Rory? It wouldn't be the first time the two of them have been referred to ambiguously.

[WibbleWorldGiddy]

At the risk of receiving negative votes, I was disappointed by the episode. The dialogue was fantastic, the sets looked amazing, and the acting was terrific (though I was surprised by the lack of German accents in the episode. Hitler’s accent was much softer than his real world counterpart and one or two the Nazi soliders and dinner party guests sounded like they were from Surrey). However, it felt overloaded with disparate plot elements that were presented and quickly forgotten.

I would have liked the episode more if they had dropped several plot points and focused upon Melody as the ‘big bad’ for the episode. Although there are clearly early parts of her life that will be revealed at a later date, more effort could have been made to establish her motivations at that point in time. As it is, it is unclear what drove her to want to kill the Doctor and why she was so quick to change her mind.

Rather than simply list the things that I disliked about the episode, I started to think about the changes that would have improved my enjoyment. Spoiler contains comments on specific sections that I feel could have been improved/removed.

Introduce Mel as Amy’s friend in an earlier episode

Moffat has been dropping hints of Melody/River’s character arc for some years and had a full plan of series 6 for more than a year and a half, so why haven’t we seen or heard of Mel, Amy’s best friend who wouldn’t come to their wedding, before? As it is, we get the equivalent of what would have happened if the 8th Doctor’s had appeared in Rose – a character whom the (majority of the) audience do not know & has no investment in appears and dies after five minutes. An obvious in-universe explanation for her absence when she was growing up with Amy in is that she did not wish/was told not to alter the timeline by interacting with The Doctor before she was conceived. However, from a storyline perspective, her death and subsequent regeneration would have been more surprising if she had been established as a part of Rory & Amy’s life in an earlier episode.

Remove the sci-fi robot

What purpose did the teeny, time travelling humans and their mighty-morphin’ robot serve to the story? We get a great scene of The Doctor preventing them killing Hitler (I suspect that Torchwood, circa series 3, would have better handled the difficulties associated with having to save someone who you know will go on to commit unspeakable atrocities) and some future toys with memorable catchphrases, but what else? The humans themselves were unmemorable and were barely credible as potential villains/foils to the main characters (Attempting to kill Hitler in 1938? Attempting to kill River before she had killed The Doctor? Amateurs!) If they needed a character to serve as a foil for Melody, why not go for a single, human-sized time traveling bounty hunter (a TV equivalent of Death's Head, perhaps) whom could be assigned various character traits?

Remove the Doctor almost dies plotline

Did the Doctor need to die in this episode? The potential death of The Doctor has been used as a cliffhanger for many episodes over the years and has rarely been convincing. However, the diagnosis that he would most definitely snuff it in 32 minutes seemed particularly pointless. For the last few months we’ve been building up to the final episode of the series in which the events of 6.1 will be explained. Sure, we know that the writers will find some way to save him in the final episode (Spoiler: The 50th anniversary is coming up soon). The news that he wouldn’t die in ep 13, but instead would most definitely snuff it in 32 minutes seemed like an unnecessary effort to create tension and give Amy & Rory time to have an adventure by themselves.

Rather than have Melody poison him immediately, spend the rest of the episode in the Tardis, appear in the final 30 seconds to convince Melody that he was a good guy (slight exaggeration, but Melody's conversion from potential murderer to saviour did seem too easy), I would have found it more interesting to show him surprised at the anger she feels for him, followed by her stalk him through the streets of Berlin (developing the Terminator theme referenced in various scenes), as he tries different approaches to convince her that what she has been told about him is wrong. As a character piece, it would have demonstrated the mindset and training that has been instilled into her by the eye patch woman’s organization and demonstrate the Doctor’s ability to proactively work towards a solution (one of my frustrations about the 11th Doctor is that he often appears to be reactive, relying upon his companions to locate information and partially resolve the situation).

[Lothar Hex]

Is it me, or have they made up for Rory being almost useless last series by making him completely awesome. Killed a twelth of the Cyberman's fleet, looked after his imprisoned wife for 2000 years (when he was an Auton yes but he still has the memories) and now has punched Hitler in the face.

They need to make a new show. "Rory Williams: TIME PUNCHER."

[Matt Defis]

Just finished watching it after missing it last night and that was fucking awesome!!!!!!

[DeNeo]

(though I was surprised by the lack of German accents in the episode. Hitler’s accent was much softer than his real world counterpart and one or two the Nazi soliders and dinner party guests sounded like they were from Surrey).

They shouldn't have had any accents, due to the Tardis translating (see the Pompeii and Vincent Van Gogh episodes).

[DeNeo]

Introduce Mel as Amy’s friend in an earlier episode

Moffat has been dropping hints of Melody/River’s character arc for some years and had a full plan of series 6 for more than a year and a half, so why haven’t we seen or heard of Mel, Amy’s best friend who wouldn’t come to their wedding, before? As it is, we get the equivalent of what would have happened if the 8th Doctor’s had appeared in Rose – a character whom the (majority of the) audience do not know & has no investment in appears and dies after five minutes. An obvious in-universe explanation for her absence when she was growing up with Amy in is that she did not wish/was told not to alter the timeline by interacting with The Doctor before she was conceived. However, from a storyline perspective, her death and subsequent regeneration would have been more surprising if she had been established as a part of Rory & Amy’s life in an earlier episode.

Your obvious in-universe explanation is almost there - from our point of view she's just been born, so we saw the effect of her going into the past and changing Amy and Rory's timeline. She couldn't have been introduced earlier from our perspective as she didn't exist

[PK]

It's a shame they didn't introduce two actresses playing River this series, that would have been great. One who loves the Doctor and reminds him how great she is whenever she shows up, the other who tries to kill him while flirting outrageously whenever she shoes up. Feels like they blew it all in one episode :/

[Space Gibbon]

Your obvious in-universe explanation is almost there - from our point of view she's just been born, so we saw the effect of her going into the past and changing Amy and Rory's timeline. She couldn't have been introduced earlier from our perspective as she didn't exist

I know this sort of thing's been done before in DW, but I don't think it works in this case. Amy specifically says she named Melody after Mels, so she must have existed in her timeline before. Otherwise how would Amy and Rory have gotten together?

[WibbleWorldGiddy]

They shouldn't have had any accents, due to the Tardis translating (see the Pompeii and Vincent Van Gogh episodes).

A reasonable explanation, although I can't recall accent being mentioned in the previous episodes (the above, as well as End of the World), only translation as a method to allow communication. If the TARDIS performs accent levelling as well, how can The Doctor hear Amy speak in her native scottish tones, and why does the 9th Doctor sound like he's from the north to Rose?

[Mogster]

I know this sort of thing's been done before in DW, but I don't think it works in this case. Amy specifically says she named Melody after Mels, so she must have existed in her timeline before. Otherwise how would Amy and Rory have gotten together?

Only in this series though. Amy wasn't born until this series, and as far as I can remember this episode was the first time we've seen flashbacks to young Amy since the last series.

[Space Gibbon]

There's a new hidden message in the "Fourth Dimension" section of the episode page on the official BBC site.

(The message starts a couple of paragraphs down. Read the italicised words.)

[Retroid]

Best moment in the episode:

Not a bad way to die?

[whizzo]

I know this sort of thing's been done before in DW, but I don't think it works in this case. Amy specifically says she named Melody after Mels, so she must have existed in her timeline before. Otherwise how would Amy and Rory have gotten together?

The correct answer is that the reason mels wasnt introduced is because she hadnt met the doctor yet. As soon as she did she tried to murder him.