Doctor Who

[scottcr]

I got the impression from episode 2 that the space suit itself was a mini Tardis... She could effectively fly through time and space in the suit,,,

Or am I wrong?

Wonder why she came out of the lake though!

[sprite]

But why did River know what was going to happen at Demon's Run?

Arrrgggh!

[Space Gibbon]

But why did River know what was going to happen at Demon's Run?

Arrrgggh!

Which River? Cos I think the River Rory met is later than the River who appears at the end. But not necessarily - simplest explanation is, the Doctor told her. "When you grow up you're going to show up after the battle of Demon's Run at this time on this date and tell me who you are."

[Hexx]

That's the thing. It's obvious when you watch River's first story that they meet like The Time Traveller's Wife. In a random order. That's why they use the diary to sync up. Even the Doctor in series 5 says "Her past. My future. We keep meeting in the wrong order". And then at the start of this series Moffat tries to recton them meeting in reverse order for no real reason than to get a line about the kissing. He seems to want to have his cake and eat it but the result is a bit confusing and doesn't really work.

Meeting in the wrong order does everything he needs and removes all the problems associated with reverse order. I'm not entirely sure why he's chosen to do it this way.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It gave them the oppertunity for "his firsts are my lasts" - which was a poignent moment, but flies in the face of what we've been told about their timeline.

Wrong order =/= Reverse Order

There's also some oddities about when/how River meets Rory/Amy - for example she doesn't recognise Rory in "The Pandorica Opens" and in "The Big Bang" is surprised to him in the present day and refers to him (quizically) as "The Centurion?"

I do think they've flubbed River's timeline (and the presentation of it) a fair bit.

[Jug McKenzie]

.

[Hello Goaty ♥]

I hear you brother.

[Gommy]

Which River? Cos I think the River Rory met is later than the River who appears at the end. But not necessarily - simplest explanation is, the Doctor told her. "When you grow up you're going to show up after the battle of Demon's Run at this time on this date and tell me who you are."

Surely the reason she would know about Demons run, would be because she was there and the doctor was talking to her when she was in the cot?

I agree the whole back to front time lines thing seems completely wrong and makes this much more confusing than simply saying a random order (which from the interactions is how it appears anyway).

[Avuncular]

You know, I think the confusion generated by the River Song story is the main reason I'm not really 'feeling it' this season (yet). It takes so long and demands so much patience to backtrack through every appearance and encounter that it seems to cross the line from pure entertainment to simple hard work. I'm sure some fans of the show are loving every second of the challenge of getting their heads around the whole River Song puzzle, but I get the feeling these people are also happy to devote practically all of their spare time to figuring it out; personally, there's so much else to be getting on with (family, work, other shows, films, music, games, books, going out, rllmuk and so on) that if I was to devote the amount of time really required to experience complete satisfaction with Doctor Who in its present form, then it feels as though I'd have to give up pretty much everything else to do so, and that's a sacrifice I'm not prepared to make and shouldn't be expected to make if I just want to enjoy watching Doctor Who on a Saturday night.

That's exactly what I do. Most of the stuff people talk about in here goes right over the top of my head.

[kensei]

Rory was erased from time in pandorica, only the doctor remembered him at the start, and only Amy too later. Though technically that probably should have erased River too.

[Space Gibbon]

Rory was erased from time in pandorica, only the doctor remembered him at the start, and only Amy too later. Though technically that probably should have erased River too.

Two very good points. His removal from time would explain River's not recognising him, but should also make River's existence impossible.

Of course, Amy's parents were also erased from time, and she continued to exist. She'd already been born, though. But I suppose 'already' is a relative term when it comes to time travellers.

[LongHairStu]

Timey-wimey...

[Sprite Machine]

Well, that was messy.

I prefer Moffat's episodes when they're neat and clever self-contained stories. I have no idea where he's taking this massive plot arc, but it had better be good.

[Avuncular]

The problem with all this timey wimey stuff is that time travel is a theory and has no set rules.

I admire the attempt to do greater story arcs rather than each episode being totally self contained but it's too convoluted.

Which version of who it is in each episode makes my brain hurt because I don't spend half my waking life reading and thinking about it.

I want to be entertained for 45 minutes and leave it at that.

I do love the show but it puts me off a bit.

[Mr Cochese]

You need to chill out.

[Kyouma]

I think people criticising the show for trying to be anything more than 45 minutes of easily understood drivel are being ridiculous. To hell with you, I'm loving it precisely because it's complex. It's a show about time travel ffs!

[Uncle Mike]

And why are you letting it all twist your heads round, you fools? You don't need to, it's perfectly followable by not over-thinking it all.

[JohnC]

And it's not even finished yet, so stop trying to figure out all the answers if it hurts your brains so much. It's not done yet. I'm sure it will make sense by the end.

[locke_211]

I still can't believe the regeneration line from Sarah Jane Adventures is still causing debate. It's SO clearly a flippant, off the cuff remark because the guy he's talking to is annoying him by flooding him with irritating questions.

[Mr Cochese]

It's like the end of the last series, when the Universe was all fading away simultaneously at every time. That doesn't make any sense at all, unless you just accept that the Doctor himself exists in a special bubble of "episode time". Lots of the crazy timeline stuff makes perfect sense as long as you just think of it as episode time.

[Hexx]

The problem with all this timey wimey stuff is that time travel is a theory and has no set rules.

I know. And while I don't want to go all "ANGRY GEEK ON THE INTERNET";

I'm not expecting it to be "accurate" with current scientific theory etc.

But I'd like the show to maintain it's own internal logic/consistency.

[Mogster]

You know, I think the confusion generated by the River Song story is the main reason I'm not really 'feeling it' this season (yet). It takes so long and demands so much patience to backtrack through every appearance and encounter that it seems to cross the line from pure entertainment to simple hard work. I'm sure some fans of the show are loving every second of the challenge of getting their heads around the whole River Song puzzle, but I get the feeling these people are also happy to devote practically all of their spare time to figuring it out; personally, there's so much else to be getting on with (family, work, other shows, films, music, games, books, going out, rllmuk and so on) that if I was to devote the amount of time really required to experience complete satisfaction with Doctor Who in its present form, then it feels as though I'd have to give up pretty much everything else to do so, and that's a sacrifice I'm not prepared to make and shouldn't be expected to make if I just want to enjoy watching Doctor Who on a Saturday night.

Seriously? I'm a pretty big Doctor Who fan, but I seem to be enjoying it just fine without devoting all my spare time to the cause. Speculation is fun, but as the answers are presumably on the way it's hardly mandatory.

[sprite]

The more I think about it, the more I think Baby River probably takes in more than normal babies probably do. That would easily explain why she knew what would happen at Demon's Run, and also why she referred to Rory as "The Centurion" in season 5 perhaps - as that's how Amy introduces her dad at the start of A Good Man Goes To War.

And for the record I'm not trying to pick holes in it, I really like that the show has actually got me trying to work stuff out.

[minkee]

You should just look at Matt Smith's face more. Everybody.

[Hello Goaty ♥]

You should just look at Matt Smith's face more. Everybody.

I have, and theres two strange things:

1) With River being part Timelord DNA, a rule states that both the Doctor and Rory are her Father.

2) Or, plain and simply put... The Doctor cops off with Rory's daughter?

Either way, its scandalous!

[Avuncular]

I have, and theres two strange things:

1) With River being part Timelord DNA, a rule states that both the Doctor and Rory are her Father.

2) Or, plain and simply put... The Doctor cops off with Rory's daughter?

Either way, its scandalous!

Two in one hole.

[Jug McKenzie]

On 06/06/2011 at 14:49, Mogster said:

 

[Fury4k]

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[Yozhik]

Bit late I know but the Flesh stuff reminded me of The Prestige:

If you make an exact copy of yourself and kill the original, is the new one as much of a you as you were?

[Fury4k]

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[SeanR]

river song

melody pond

puddle tune