Doctor Who

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Generally good episode.

The guy's son was shit, the body-morphing that the gangers did was still shit but Jen's 'final form' was good and pretty disgusting/terrifying actually, and the twist at the end was fucking great.

Trailer for next week is here. Looks amazing.

[Hexx]

Generally good episode.

The guy's son was shit, the body-morphing that the gangers did was still shit but Jen's 'final form' was good and pretty disgusting/terrifying actually, and the twist at the end was fucking great.

I thought the use of the son was good. Forcing the Ganger to realise that it too didn't see himself as the "real" dad...harsh trick though Doctor.

Again - pretty scary for kids with half decayed forms, melting acid people, wall eyes etc.

[Venice Cull]

*scratches head*

Why did the Doctor change shoes with the Ganger?

Was Amy a ganger?

Wat?

[Blue Screen Error]

Generally good episode.

Trailer for next week is here. Looks amazing.

Wut...

Centurion Rory? (at the end)

[JohnC]

One thing I didn't like was a version of everyone (or those still alive) conveniently being killed off at the end, leaving one of each.

[Hexx]

The BBC's done another "Prequel" to the next episode, similar to the season opener.

There shouldn't be spoilers, per se, as this is exclusive content - but it suggests some story elements!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h74x2

[Space Gibbon]

What was that random bit about where one of the Doctors asks the other about some kind of Cyberman thing? Could that be relevant to the next episode?

[Mogster]

Back in the first episode Amy told the Doctor she had to tell him about her pregnancy and it "had to be now". It seems there was some link between real Amy and Ganger Amy (the eye patch lady visions, the contractions and stuff), and I'm guessing at that point the real Amy must have taken full control of her ganger, and she knew it wasn't going to last. I'd say ganger Amy has been around since at least the first episode of the season.

[Peter St John]

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cybermat

[Alask]

Why did the Dr dissolve the ganger Amy? Have't we just had a whole 2 parter explaining that the gangers are just as human as their counterparts and should be treated that way?

(edit: apart from the evil one obviously)

[NecroMorrius]

Good question. She started seeing eyepatch woman in episode 2, and she thought she was pregnant in episode 1. Since she stopped being properly pregnant (just 'in flux' pregnant), was she possibly replaced during that period where they were all on the run?

Confidential says she's been fake since the first episode.

[Space Gibbon]

*scratches head*

Why did the Doctor change shoes with the Ganger?

Was Amy a ganger?

Wat?

The 'real' Doctor's shoes were melted by acid, so he was wearing different shoes - the only way you could tell the two apart physically. They change shoes so the Doctor can see whether the two of them are both really real, from Amy's point of view.

Amy was technically a ganger, yes. A flesh copy but without an independent consciousness. Her real body was in the capsule the whole time while her mind was playing walkabout in a flesh body.

[NecroMorrius]

Why did the Dr dissolve the ganger Amy? Have't we just had a whole 2 parter explaining that the gangers are just as human as their counterparts and should be treated that way?

(edit: apart from the evil one obviously)

Because it was an 'Avatar' rather than a 'clone'.

[Mogster]

Amy was technically a ganger, yes. A flesh copy but without an independent consciousness. Her real body was in the capsule the whole time while her mind was playing walkabout in a flesh body.

Of course!

[Space Gibbon]

Why did the Dr dissolve the ganger Amy? Have't we just had a whole 2 parter explaining that the gangers are just as human as their counterparts and should be treated that way?

(edit: apart from the evil one obviously)

The other gangers were the result of an accident that made them sentient.

Though it's not been made clear exactly what the flesh is and how it lives when it's not animated by a person.

But fake-Amy was a ganger in the sense we saw at the start of the first part - just an instrument controlled by a real mind.

[JohnC]

Was it an avatar though? If it was just an avatar, she should have been able to explain that she was trapped somewhere and it isn't really her. They were aware of this while being used as avatars back at the start, and not being so bothered about being melted. But this one didn't seem aware she wasn't the real Amy and was scared at the end.

[Piccolomini]

Was it an avatar though? If it was just an avatar, she should have been able to explain that she was trapped somewhere and it isn't really her. They were aware of this while being used as avatars back at the start, and not being so bothered about being melted. But this one didn't seem aware she wasn't the real Amy and was scared at the end.

Well, the Doctor did say the ones in the monastery were 'older technology'. Amy's one is probably much newer, which will also explain why she didn't go independent like the other gangers.

[NecroMorrius]

Was it an avatar though? If it was just an avatar, she should have been able to explain that she was trapped somewhere and it isn't really her. They were aware of this while being used as avatars back at the start, and not being so bothered about being melted. But this one didn't seem aware she wasn't the real Amy and was scared at the end.

Not if she'd been drugged etc.

It was the electrical storm which created the independent gangers. Though that doesn't quite explain how they ended up with a pile of them out back.

And the eyes bit was stupid, how were they swivelling?

[Hexx]

Was it an avatar though? If it was just an avatar, she should have been able to explain that she was trapped somewhere and it isn't really her. They were aware of this while being used as avatars back at the start, and not being so bothered about being melted. But this one didn't seem aware she wasn't the real Amy and was scared at the end.

Yeah because it was an Avatar - Amy didn't even know she'd been kidnapped (other than scenes from reality breaking through).

They took Amy, shoved her in that machine and replace her with an Avatar SHE was controlling. The real Amy was "living" the previous episodes, just through a puppet.

So no one (including her) knew she'd been kidnapped (Dr excluded). What a good way to try and get away with kidnapping

Well, the Doctor did say the ones in the monastery were 'older technology'. Amy's one is probably much newer, which will also explain why she didn't go independent like the other gangers.

The ones in the monestry only went independent due to the Sun Wave - up until then they'd been puppets just like Amy...

But then the episodes kept implying the Flesh remembered being used a puppet, and remembered the deaths - so even killing an "Avatar" seemed to be "counter message" at the end.

[Cthulhu Steev]

Ganger Amy

ganger Amy

This is like a visual roadblock for me, like a Chinese Vampire stumbling on some sticky rice I feel compelled to consider things every time I read it.

[Space Gibbon]

That bit in the trailer for next week,

the voice saying "My friend, you have never risen higher". Where do I know that voice from?

[Madness]

Can we keep trailer discussion in spoiler boxes please, chaps? Excellent.

And Amy's been ginger since the start.

[RikC]

Wut...

Centurion Rory? (at the end)

Also, the voice of

the scottish woman who played the Silurians Alaya and Restac.

See above, Space Gibbon.

[Space Gibbon]

Also, the voice of

the scottish woman who played the Silurians Alaya and Restac.

See above, Space Gibbon.

She's listed as 'Warrior' for the next episode, though the Doctor Who site has a 'They're back!" thing under Silurians.

[Bad Otter Fingers]

Why didn't they explain why the armour in these episodes was so similar to the Sontaran armour? I kept thinking it was gonna be a sneaky 'Genesis of the Sontarans' story.

[Flub]

Ah yeah. Now we're rocking.

[Venice Cull]

They change shoes so the Doctor can see whether the two of them are both really real, from Amy's point of view.

I sort of heard that - but why?

[Space Gibbon]

I sort of heard that - but why?

They swap shoes so that Amy thinks ganger-Doc is original-Doc. That way he can tell if her perception of a difference between the two of them is only based on a preconception.

I think the only reason was to test his original hypothesis - that gangers are identical to their human originals. It wasn't connected to the bit at the end.

[Ktisis]

They swap shoes so that Amy thinks ganger-Doc is original-Doc. That way he can tell if her perception of a difference between the two of them is only based on a preconception.

I think the only reason was to test his original hypothesis - that gangers are identical to their human originals. It wasn't connected to the bit at the end.

It was though.

The Doctor says at one point near the end that he was going to come to the Monastery anyway (he would've let Amy and Rory out early had it not been for the solar storm), he needs to know everything he can about the Flesh, he already suspected Amy wasn't Amy and he needed to know just how lifelike the Flesh could be to be sure it wasn't her.

[Flub]

It was though.

The Doctor says at one point near the end that he was going to come to the Monastery anyway (he would've let Amy and Rory out early had it not been for the solar storm), he needs to know everything he can about the Flesh, he already suspected Amy wasn't Amy and he needed to know just how lifelike the Flesh could be to be sure it wasn't her.

Ganger Amy wasn't a clone. It was real Amy over an ganger link. She didn't know until the Doctor killed the ganger and severed the link. At which point Amy woke up feeling like she'd eaten a few too many pies.