Doctor Who

[Fireproofradiator]

Wow, it's a real opinion splitter this one isn't it? When was the last time we had such a schism? Turn Left?

[Pete]

Opinions aren't split, a bunch of people are just WRONG

[Mr Cochese]

That was ok, but there were a few nasty incidents of scenery chewing from certain people and also the writer trying to push characters to conclusions that he hadn't worked for yet. For example, when the thick woman attacked Rory for no reason and then bellowed "WE JUST WANT TO LIIIIVE, RORY!" Maybe if everyone had been callously going on about catching the clones and destroying them, that would have made sense, but Rory was about the furthest from that sentiment out of the whole cast.

Failing to join the dots seems like a recurring problem in this series actually, as it was the same when they wanted everyone to be on the run with tally marks on their skin in the second episode, but never explained why or how that had happened (though they used the loss of memory device better later in that same episode, so it would have worked better if the order of the scenes was swapped around).

[Ravern]

That was ok, but there were a few nasty incidents of scenery chewing from certain people and also the writer trying to push characters to conclusions that he hadn't worked for yet. For example, when the thick woman attacked Rory for no reason and then bellowed "WE JUST WANT TO LIIIIVE, RORY!" Maybe if everyone had been callously going on about catching the clones and destroying them, that would have made sense, but Rory was about the furthest from that sentiment out of the whole cast.

I found that section to be quite a convincing part of the idea of them being extremely confused and disoriented, and in a state of panic and shock about their real identity (and what identity even means in the context where there is more than one of you). Making it any more obvious would have made it seem clunky - characters, like people, shouldn't/don't go around stating their emotions blithely. Instead, feelings are implied by their actions and words. I felt this lashing out, in a state of terror and confusion (she, after all, was the one ganger amongst the originals) felt like a typically humane reaction, when you lash out at those closest to you, who often deserve it least, when you feel under threat. If all that had to be explained then I would have found that irritating.

This was an episode where I felt like the characters were allowed to develop at a more gentle pace (rather than a ton of "action" or plot development), which made it an extremely refreshing piece of slow boiling character sci-fi.

I think the lesson here is that it's very difficult to please everyone.

[SonOfSoAngry]

It's not quite like we went from Caves of Androzani into The Twin Dilemma but frankly anything was going to suffer in comparison to last week's. It was at least better than something like Tooth and Claw.

The Rory coping with his Auton issues was by far the most interesting bit though.

[scruffycat]

I've just started watching Who after a looong break and I quiet enjoyed that episode. It maybe helped that I was watching it purely as a bit of family entertainment as I have absolutely no knowledge of the modern Doctors really. Anyway, the premis as to exactly why they would need Gangers in the first place was ridiculous and there was a bit of a hamfest at times but I liked some of the ideas the story bought up (Especially when the Doctor said he could rescue them all and the susequant conversation between the worker and the ganger as to who would go home) and it was quite creepy at times. Not bad really at all. Although I hated the turn into a snake bit, I really hope that they realised how bad this was and it's going to get forgotten as the gangers forms become more 'set'

Also I really like Matt Smith, which suprised me as for some reason I didn't think I would. I think he could be one of the great Doctors.

[Hulot]

That was ok, but there were a few nasty incidents of scenery chewing from certain people and also the writer trying to push characters to conclusions that he hadn't worked for yet. For example, when the thick woman attacked Rory for no reason and then bellowed "WE JUST WANT TO LIIIIVE, RORY!" Maybe if everyone had been callously going on about catching the clones and destroying them, that would have made sense, but Rory was about the furthest from that sentiment out of the whole cast.

Arguably she had stronger motives for her hysterical reaction than you are crediting her with. Rory was evidently sympathetic towards her, but, prior to their confrontation in the lavatory, there didn't appear to be a shadow of a doubt in his mind that she was anything other than human. Up to that point, Rory hadn't expressed any opinion about gangers, so it would be entirely plausible for her to fear that he might have an aversion to them. True, he did arrive accompanying the Doctor, who was voluble in his criticisms of the crew's attitude towards the flesh/gangers, but that wouldn't tell her anything certain of Rory's sentiments.

Furthermore, because of the Doctor's false ID, she would likely have been under the misapprehension that Rory was either a civil servant or representative of the government; both positions would at the very least incentivize Rory to dispose of autonomous gangers. Bearing all that in mind, together with the confusion and self-doubt Jennifer-ganger was subject to following the storm, I think there was justification enough for her sudden display of aggression.

[Commander Jameson]

I'm finding the separation of the real Jennifer to be a bit odd. I wonder if she [the real one] could be a ganger too?

[NecroMorrius]

Confidential showed that they shot this in about eight different locations, which might explain partly why it felt a bit disjointed.

[NecroMorrius]

Full trailer for the new Torchwood thing

Very American looking. Amazing what a bit of slap and some better cameras can do for a Welsh lass

Bill Pullman is looking old! And is that Six Feet Under's Lauren Ambrose?

[Mr Cochese]

Are they going to have subtitles for the Welsh bird?

[SeanR]

well the start's certainly avatarcular...

[Nick R]

Following on from those River Song/Doctor timelines... this one's a bit more ambitious:

(it's by this guy)

[Ravern]

Isn't that wrong? Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon happen before Pandorica in River's timeline (we found out that their experiences happen in complete reverse direction).

[Hexx]

Ooooh. Very Interesting Theory about Flesh/Amy (and spoilers for episode 7)

Amy is a Flesh. That explains the Schrodinger's Baby - the transmission to the Ganger is changing and it can't adapt.

Also - look at the trailer

At 45 seconds. The Doctor, talking to an Amy in front of him, says ""Whatever happens, however hard, however far- we will find you." Is he talking to a kidnapped Amy - who's been transmitting to/living via a Ganger this entire time (since 6x01?) and doesn't even know she's been kidnapped?

That's what Eye patch lady is - a "real" person, checking on "real" Amy that's leaking into her consciousness/being transmitted to the Ganger.

The Doctor seemed to go the planet for a reason, and new more about the Flesh than his lets on. Was he there investigating Amy?

[smoothe]

I don't know... this episode just doesn't smack of having anything to do with the larger storyline! It feels pretty standalone, self contained. A lot of things could be explained by 'hes a ganger!' theory, it'd almost be too easy.

[c-cat114]

Two minutes of bad guys and hats. Vaguely related to the thread...

I'd be more interested in how the flesh might interact with the Silents rather than with the Amy (actually that just sounds wrong on a number of levels...) For a start didn't they say that the Silents were

on every planet? They haven't been making much noise since ep 2 in that case...

[SeanR]

for part two I predict a million rory-ganger deaths.

[scottcr]

Don't know what people disliked about that... Perfectly decent episode

[Seamonster]

Thought that episode was surprisingly good. I agree that the descent into 'we're at war!' territory felt a bit forced, but apart from that it was well directed, nicely creepy and there were some excellent lines of dialogue.

None of which was true for Fear Her.

[Retroid]

The special effects are much better this season, getting up there with the likes of Smallville...

[Hexx]

There's been some lovely shots/direction as well. It started last season, but entire thing feels like it's a much higher quality product.

[Piccolomini]

Definitely, although the random giraffe-necked villains didn't really add to the professional look in the previous episode.

[Not Thread Owner]

For those saying "why did the gangers suddenly turn violent?", er, so did the humans. With exactly the same sentiment.

In fact, the humans started it.

[Gregory Wolfe]

I don't know... this episode just doesn't smack of having anything to do with the larger storyline! It feels pretty standalone, self contained. A lot of things could be explained by 'hes a ganger!' theory, it'd almost be too easy.

If this wasn't telegraphed that the Doc is fucking about in time then I don't know what is. "I'm a great parker".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011fnd4/Doctor_Who_Series_6_The_Rebel_Flesh/

25.18mins-25.52mins.

[Nick R]

I'd forgotten all about that moment until now. I thought it seemed a bit disjointed when I watched it - like the scene in Flesh & Stone where the Doctor talks to Amy when her eyes were closed also felt out of place, even if you didn't notice the jacket continuity.

---

A Russell T Davies interview... doesn't really talk about Doctor Who much, it's more about his advice to people starting out in TV writing:

But as for getting your foot on the ladder... well, I’m wary of using anything just to get in. You should love those shows anyway. A lot of people use soaps – and something like the BBC’s Doctors has a rare and unsung programme of finding new writers – but you should go to that show loving medical drama in the first place. They’ll smell a cynic a mile off. It’s the same with children’s – that’s often suggested as a way in, and it does have a lot of opportunities, but often there’s an assumption that children’s TV is ‘easier’. Which isn’t true at all, it’s very specialised and highly demanding. But, nonetheless, both are high-volume areas that need a high turnover of writers.

Ah, but that’s boring advice, isn’t it? That’s like saying ‘learn to walk before you can run’, which is bollocks. Start running straight away. Run past everyone else. If you hate soaps and children’s and want to write a 20 part epic about the life of Nelson Mandela, then write it, and if it’s good, it’ll get made. I seriously believe that. Good stuff gets made in the end. So write with passion and honesty and ignore boring advice.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Did anything ever come of that bit with him suddenly going back and talking to amy, or was it just a production fuck up? I can't remember.

[Cthulhu Steev]

Did anything ever come of that bit with him suddenly going back and talking to amy, or was it just a production fuck up? I can't remember.

It was a Doctor from a a different timeline jumping around and trying to fix stuff in the final episode of last season. It was brilliant, how could you forget!?

[WibbleWorldGiddy]

If this wasn't telegraphed that the Doc is fucking about in time then I don't know what is. "I'm a great parker".

Would the writers try the same idea so soon? We already have two doctors in the episode without any time travel japes. I'm guessing it's the ganger version.

[stefcha]

For those saying "why did the gangers suddenly turn violent?", er, so did the humans. With exactly the same sentiment.

In fact, the humans started it.

No they didn't, Jen(?) turned violent first after throwing up and realising what she was then somewhat strangely long-arming Rory, and the sentiment of violence after that wasn't the same either, they were up for it then calmed down and were brought in after which that confrontational woman killed one of them (which I guess you mean by the humans starting it?). The gangers sentiment was just that they want to live, isn't it? How's that the same as the originals reason for violence? They're unsettled by others potentially possessing their lives, and then get egged on by mad killer woman going way over the top about that and subsequent reaction of the gangers being pretty much "right, we'll do you for that!".