Doctor Who

[kensei]

The first parts of the two parters have usually been decent, followed by weak conclusions. This was quite slow, so hoping the next one has a nice payoff for a change.

[NecroMorrius]

Plenty of scope for something interesting to happen with two doctors on the prowl.

[locke_211]

I think Steven Moffat might not be a great showrunner, on balance. When he's writing, it's absolutely fantastic. However, when he's not we get shit like this, the Cold Blood parter from last year and the second episode of Sherlock.

I think he's a lot more hands off with other writers' episodes than RTD. But Gareth Roberts' episode last season, The Lodger, was much better I thought than any of the ones he wrote under RTD.

Also Moffat seems particularly good at bringing in original choices of new to Who, but already well-known writers. Like Simon Nye, Richard Curtis and Neil Gaiman, who all wrote episodes better than the average non-RTD RTD-era standalones.

[Ravern]

I thought it could have worked as a one-parter...maybe.

I agree with some of the comments. Nothing overtly horribly wrong with it, just sort of meh.

The usual way this kind of episode would go would be

1. Setup, then incident

2. Gangers and humans separated, gangers stage sneak attacks on human.

3. Doctor confronts gangers.

4. Gangers either go in peace, or stay defiant and the Doctor is forced to 'deal' with them.

But this episode was all over the place. Usually the 'but we're just as human as you' sob stories would be reserved for later in the story, as would the two sides meeting each other. In this one they were together and apart and together again back and forth. Messy.

I appreciated it for the fact that it wasn't formulaic. Whilst at first it looked like the gangers might be instinctive evil, that wasn't the case at all - they were confused and disoriented, which meant that the post-incident part of the episode was the reorientation of gangers and humans, followed by the true disorientation.

[Madness]

I think he's a lot more hands off with other writers' episodes than RTD. But Gareth Roberts' episode last season, The Lodger, was much better I thought than any of the ones he wrote under RTD.

Also Moffat seems particularly good at bringing in original choices of new to Who, but already well-known writers. Like Simon Nye, Richard Curtis and Neil Gaiman, who all wrote episodes better than the average non-RTD RTD-era standalones.

I suppose this is true, I'd completely forgotten about The Lodger but that was very good. And obviously Gaiman's was amazing.

I don't know why they got Matthew Graham back after Fear Her, though.

[cassidy]

Well I thought much the same kensei. Nice slow pace and proper Sci fi. A shit ton better than that pirate shit we had a fortnight ago.

[locke_211]

I suppose this is true, I'd completely forgotten about The Lodger but that was very good. And obviously Gaiman's was amazing.

I don't know why they got Matthew Graham back after Fear Her, though.

I only saw Fear Hear on first viewing, and thought it was ok. The Olympic bit was awful, but the plot and the explanation of the monster, and the way the monster's situation worked as a metaphor for the family's own situation as immigrants, worked really well. and to give him his due, he created the hugely popular Life on Mars.

[cassidy]

Matthew Grahams fear her = shit

Matthew Grahams lom/a2a = top notch telly.

Ashes to ashes end last year was cracking drama. Probably why he got asked again.

[Space Gibbon]

I don't think the Ganger's readiness to turn into 'kill them all' monsters is consistent with them being copies of the humans with nothing beyond their memories and thoughts.

[kensei]

Really? They were very casual about the gangers lives. And the more violent they eere, the less human tbey appeared

[Hulot]

I thought that was an enjoyable enough way to spend forty-five minutes on a Saturday evening. The pre-title sequence and the hostile attitude of the crew members to their doppelgängers offered a juicy little commentary on how certain heavy industries can brutalise those who work in them; also, Matt Smith was in fine fettle (eccentric, but with a dignity that he hasn't had an opportunity to display recently - much better than the wackjob that's typically demanded of him).

[Pete]

Surprised to find myself in the minority, I really enjoyed it. It took a while to get going but the last 10 minutes were excellent. I have high hopes for next week. And the gangers and humans both decide to kill each other at the same time, so they are both monsters which is a nice change.

[Yix]

Matt Smith was in fine fettle (eccentric, but with a dignity that he hasn't had an opportunity to display recently - much better than the wackjob that's typically demanded of him).

Absolutely. I thought this episode was far superior than what we've put up with the last few weeks.

[c-cat114]

Thought it was OK, some parts good (the effects are still noticeably better than in the first few series of the new run, Miranda was likeably unlikeable and the opening sequence showed the lack of care a photocopied human might show to yet another clone nicely), some parts bad: the repeated tropes are beginning to become a little tiresome - the Doctor climbing up a ladder in a stormy sky to check a weather related doo dah? Rory being a red shirt, the Tardis being whisked away by some sort of cosmic happening and landing in a new adventure, disappearing into an unreachable space and, from the looks of the trailer,

falling into the corridor in the nick of time

. Add to that the very quick about turn for photocopy Jen and the ridiculously obvious parallels to Blade Runner and it goes from being amazing to just a fairly OK Who episode. Which seems a shame to take up such a limited run with such chaff. TBH it felt like a remix of the Satan Pit with added Blade Runner.

Smith was excellent in it though, I found him hard to enjoy in a couple of the episodes we;ve had so far - he seemed to be trying too hard to be manic but this ep seemed much closer to the enjoyment that he brought last series. Amy was just window dressing, but...still lovely window dressing. As she is such a petulant, self centered brat at times I wonder if the Rory Jen thing will lead to her stamping her feet again...

Absolutely. I thought this episode was far superior than what we've put up with the last few weeks.

Discounting the Gaiman episode surely...

[cassidy]

After the trauma of logopolis. You'd think the dr would avoid ladders.

[footle]

"I thought I was going to die"

"Welcome to my world".

[cassidy]

I liked that line a lot.

[Nick R]

Surprised by how negative the early responses to this episode were in this thread. I thought it was a decent episode.

Absolutely. I thought this episode was far superior than what we've put up with the last few weeks.

You only "put up with" the Gaiman episode?

Yeah it reminded me of Cold Blooded a little as well (beyond the they decided this was worth a two parter? factor).

Humans hole up in church to escape the monsters.

Tentative peace with 'not really evil' monsters ruined due to emotional human woman killing one of them.

Rory and Amy separated and constantly searching for each other.

Yes, it was very reminiscent of last year's two-parter - the Doctor and co arrive at an isolated outpost where for some time a small group of workers have been Messing With Things Man Should Never Know...

But I thought it was a decent episode, better than The Hungry Earth - it felt like an attempt to do a similar story, but right this time!

I liked the matter-of-fact way the characters treated the deaths of Gangers in the pre-title sequence - in fact, I thought parts of the episode were surprisingly clever on the ethics of the clones' identities and treatment. So I was disappointed when that promise predictably degenerated into a villainous "WE MUST WIPE THEM ALL OUT" speech. Obviously I dunno how next week's will develop, but maybe forcing both groups to team up against a common threat would have allowed for interesting tensions and mistrustfulness without the need for it to become completely murderous "us or them"?

Fortunately, the story still had a couple of interesting elements in Rory's protectiveness of Jennifer (presumably next week this will be directly linked to his time as an Auton?) and the introduction of Ganger-Doctor. Should be fun next week, seeing how the two Doctors interact!

[zxcvbnm]

I really enjoyed it, and the gangers managed to scare my daughters, so job well done. Next weeks looks pretty good too.

[Eighthours]

It was okay. Enjoyable enough, but disappointing that this was the two-parter and not the Gaiman ep. Don't think the Gangers' turn into panto villains really works, to be perfectly honest. And what is it with British shows and flat pre-titles teasers? Just kinda limped to the opening credits, this ep.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

I actually really liked that.

Not sure where they're going to go with the bit at the cliffhanger - it all smacks a bit too much of Doctor-Donna shit - but the rest of it? Thought it was great. Would prefer if they kept the doppelgangers' body properties more human (the ridiculous stretchy necks and so on were silly) but that's about my only substantive complaint.

[Space Gibbon]

The pre-title bit seemed misjudged to me. Usually it's there to set up some mystery that will be revealed late into the episode. But this mystery was revealed ten minutes in.

[footle]

There's so much else that could have been explored: what is it like to *actually* be a perfect clone, and confront yourself, or decide to kill your friends simply because they're not made of sentient acid?

[Fireproofradiator]

The way the clone who Rory bonded with (nice touch btw) talked about remembering everything, all her birthdays etc, made me think 'I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night' but I enjoyed this more than any other Doctor Who in a long time. It's clear that I like the episodes that are most like 'classic' Doctor Who tho and this was a pretty textbook setup with the bonus of having new Who richer characters and tighter pacing.

One thing tho. I can't believe I'm the only one who seems to have noticed the lift of an audio cue from Morrowind right near the start.

Listen to 4:58-5:07 -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b011fnd4/

Then listen to this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJapRG3RasM&feature=related

The Who clip even has the sound of a centurion spider in it! Right? Someone tell me I'm not going crazy.

[Nick R]

The way the clone who Rory bonded with (nice touch btw) talked about remembering everything, all her birthdays etc, made me think 'I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night'

That moment in the episode triggered a similar thought for me - it's probably been done, but someone should write a sci-fi story about cloning where the clone has a more perfect recall of the original's life than the original does!

[joeplus]

Like others I found the story very disjointed, people's emotions and decisions all over the place. And it seems like a side-effect of working with that acid is Weird Acting Syndrome. Still, good episode for Rory, some nice witty lines and I really dug the music towards the end.

Sadly, the part 2 preview seems to have ruined my hunch that eyepatch woman was only going to show up in prime-numbered episodes.

[Yix]

I'm undecided on the Gaiman episode, as I'd expressed last week. A fantastic backbone stifled with too much "zany" Doctor and some rather predictable stock episode and character development. I tended to agree with M. Hulot's opinions with it, put far more verbosely than I ever could but public opinion seems to be against us not-as-miserly-as-you'd-think types. None the less, we've run the gamut as far as discussion with "The Doctor's Wife" goes, let's focus on this punch, shall we.

[Gregory Wolfe]

So it'll be the duplicate that dies in the first ep of the series then..

what if it's the dupe who kills the real doc, consensually, and you just don't ever find out. Apart from maybe the odd ambiguous hint that could mean one or the other survived...sweet dreams.end titles

[Made of Ghosts]

Continuing my streak of disagreeing with everyone, ever, I thought that was the best episode so far this series. Good concept with lots of potential, creepy, really engaging. One of the actresses was a bit shit but apart from that, all good.

Oh, and this week from Lawrence Miles: New Who is shit because you can't make a Silent out of cereal packets. http://beasthouse-lm2.blogspot.com/

[Corporal Flashback]

I loved it, but then I just sat and watched it, I wasn't analysing everything.