Doctor Who

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Apparently Mr Copper was in Voyage of the Damned.

[BigShimmeryWall]

Mr Copper was the guy who stayed on Earth with his million pound credit card, wasn't he?

[kensei]

Should add - I think Davies has finally nailed cliff hangers and resolutions (hopefully). He's set up a number of possible resolutions so that you don't actually know which one is going to be used, and none of them will drop out of thin air a la Messiah Doc last year. Hopefully he doesn't try to fit absolutely everything in, and by the end of the episode there is still a couple that can be used by the new team if they wish.

[Hexx]

Mr Copper was the guy who stayed on Earth with his million pound credit card, wasn't he?

Yes.

The "thing to watch out for next year" was actually:

"Gates of illsisum" and "The Nightmare child"

Which Davros ship fell into...

(I think anyway)

[Boyatsea]

I needs context! Is that good or bad?

Pretty good. Doc Who gets anywhere between 6-9 million most weeks.

[cassidy]

Yes.

The "thing to watch out for next year" was actually:

"Gates of illsisum" and "The Nightmare child"

Which Davros ship fell into...

(I think anyway)

I reckon your right on both counts.

IIRC the ratings make it the 5 most watched show this week, basically only beaten by Eastenders and Corrie.

[Andsom]

It was OK this week. A bit 'too much but not enough at the same time' in some respects.

Again we have a massive dalek fleet destroying things, but when we see the streets of London there are only about three. The ending was great though and Davros was incredibly well realised.

[bcass]

Just watched it.

Alas, one to file under the "hated it" pile for me. I just don't understand why they try so hard to be so grand in scale when the series' strengths lie in more intimate crises.

Am I supposed to know who all these people are? Or is it a given that if you're watching Dr Who you must also have watched and followed Torchwood and SJA (of which I have not seen one episode)? It was too much all at once, a pointless barrage of past characters, spin-off characters, ex-characters, new characters, all of which made it feel like a case of trying to throw everything into the mix in the hope it would all work. Which it totally didn't. All that stuff with the mobile phones was horribly redolent of the "Get everyone to think of The Doctor at once" thing in the last series, and was completely unbelievable.

Davros, thankfully, was great. The Daleks were just as they always are. But I'm coming to dread these blockbuster finales, they just seem so...overwraught.

You are right, completely. The great thing that Russell T did was to assist it's revival. It's obvious he was utterly and completely incapable of making any character as interesting or intriguing as anything in old Who. He was pretty much a failure on all counts, but at least he engineered its revival by exploitation. He has nailed Davros though. It's like RTD finally found out how to do Dr Who, right at the very end.

[Boyatsea]

It's obvious he was utterly and completely incapable of making any character as interesting or intriguing as anything in old Who.

Christ almighty.

You have seen old Who, right? I love it to bits, but part of loving Doctor Who is being joyfully aware of its faults. RTD and co would have to be pretty shite writers not to come up with at least one character that was in league with at worst some of the original series' poorest creations.

Of course, I think most people here will (thankfully) realise you're talking nonsense on that point.

[bcass]

You have seen old Who, right? I love it to bits, but part of loving Doctor Who is being joyfully aware of its faults. RTD and co would have to be pretty shite writers not to come up with at least one character that was in league with at worst some of the original series' poorest creations.

Yet you fail to name one. I wonder why?

Of course, I think most people here will (thankfully) realise you're talking nonsense on that point.

I'm quite a few years older than you, so yes, I saw a lot of it from the 70s onwards first time round. Let's look at old-Who and some of the iconic characters that were created in that series. The best bits of new Who have been all about old-Who, and you know it. What great memorable villains has RTD created? Let me give you a clue, the answer hovers somewhere around the value of zero. I really don't think sci-fi is his forte. I'd have rather had one failed season of real intelligent and daring science fiction than the numerous seasons of achingly average mega-popular trash we've had. The ambition has been conspicuous by it's absence. The execution mostly laughable.

[Mogster]

Yet you fail to name one. I wonder why?

Adric will do to start with. Are you seriously saying that none of the new characters match up to him?

I think the masterstroke of new Who is its greater focus on the companions. Most of old Who's companions were there to scream, a lot, ask questions for the audience and not a lot else. Now we have a selection of well rounded characters that still make an impact when they show up after a long absence. Whether you like her or not, Rose is ridiculously popular.

As for new new villains, are you just talking about RTD's, or new Who's in general? If so, then how about the Vash De Nerada, the Judoon (not exactly villains, but hey), the clockwork robots, the gas mask people, and a sentient sun? All of these were more interesting than the new series take on the Cybermen and the Master, and it's not like the old series had many creations up there with the Daleks. As for intelligent and daring sci-fi, how about Midnight and Gridlock? Both original concepts, both rather well done in my opinion, and both by RTD. Also, as you like Davros, did you like Jacobi's portrayal of the Master? I think Simm's Master was a bit misjudged, but Jacobi was spot on. Again, RTD was at the helm.

I thinkj you're wearing some very rose tinted specs. Old Who had some brilliant stories, but most of it was very much inferior to most of the new show.

[El Pibe]

Wait a minute! The story about the Christmas Special was that David Morrissey was in it playing someone who 'thought' he was the Doctor. Maybe, just maybe, Tennant agreed to turn up for a couple of days, pop on his costume, and just wander around set to give the impression that he was filming the Christmas special? Whereas, in reality, he wasn't and the person that 'thought' was the Doctor, is.

Maybe David Morrissey IS the new Doctor? Unlikely, but I'd love it if he was!!

[MDY]

Wait a minute!!! Do you remember the stories about the new season? David Morrissey was in the Christmas Special as someone who 'thought' he was the Doctor. Maybe, just maybe, Tennant agreed to turn up for a couple of days, pop on his costume, and just wander around set to give the impression that he was filming the Christmas special?

Maybe David Morrissey IS the new Doctor? Unlikely, but I'd love it if he was!!

Or it's another post regeneration thing.. - his past self appears to him as a delusion or something..?

[Eighthours]

Yes.

The "thing to watch out for next year" was actually:

"Gates of illsisum" and "The Nightmare child"

Which Davros ship fell into...

(I think anyway)

I don't think so. They're just cool-sounding names that we'll never get to see due to budgetary and imagination constraints! Remember the end of that ep a year back when the Doctor "punished" everyone involved, with evocative descriptions of stuff that we never saw but really wanted to, cos they sounded a lot better than anything we do get on-screen?

Like that.

[bm]

Wait a minute! The story about the Christmas Special was that David Morrissey was in it playing someone who 'thought' he was the Doctor. Maybe, just maybe, Tennant agreed to turn up for a couple of days, pop on his costume, and just wander around set to give the impression that he was filming the Christmas special? Whereas, in reality, he wasn't and the person that 'thought' was the Doctor, is.

Maybe David Morrissey IS the new Doctor? Unlikely, but I'd love it if he was!!

Someone in the office has just speculated the same thing, and the more I think about it, the more it begins to make sense. Which would be an amazing double-bluff by the Who team. But still, I don't want Tennant to go.

[Scribblor]

David Morrisey would be awesome though, but only so long as he was a Ripley Holden Doctor.

[Davros sock drawer]

It's obvious he was utterly and completely incapable of making any character as interesting or intriguing as anything in old Who. He was pretty much a failure on all counts, but at least he engineered its revival by exploitation.

Well, I'd love to return the favour, but I don't agree there at all. The characters in new Who are, for the most part, leaps and bounds beyond anything in the old series. Donna is a particular triumph, but there are plenty of others.

Generally speaking RTD has done an incredible job, something I never thought I would say at the end of 'Rose'.

[SeanR]

it was donna what

picked up the masters ring

?

Someone in the office has just speculated the same thing, and the more I think about it, the more it begins to make sense. Which would be an amazing double-bluff by the Who team. But still, I don't want Tennant to go.

I was about to say the same thing.

[Garwoofoo]

Lawrence Miles is clearly a lunatic but his comments on Donna Noble summed it up perfectly for me.

No, look, it's no good. Despite the whole of last week's episode being a last-ditch effort to make us like her, I still don't know anything about Donna Noble. After the first year of Rose and a year of Martha, they were so familiar to us that we instinctively knew which way they were likely to jump in any given situation: when they didn't do what we expected, it was a deliberate surprise rather than an ugly hole in the characterisation. But Donna remains an excuse for Catherine Tate's schtick rather than a character, an empty celeb-shaped space where the heart of the series should be, which is yet another reason that the Doctor has ended up doing most of the hardcore emoting this year. I have no idea how clever she is, how stupid she is, how strong she is, how vulnerable she is, how acute she is, how gullible she is. I have no idea what she wants from life, what kind of childhood she had, what she might be like on a first date (her approach to men varies drastically from episode to episode, according to the comedy needs of the individual situation), how she might vote in an election, or even why she's so determined to stick with the TARDIS. Yet I do know everything I need to know about her granddad, partly because he's a lot more consistent, and partly because Bernard Cribbins is a much better actor. Donna is an individual whose only defining feature is to be "modern", performed by an actress who's been cast purely because of her showbiz appeal. In other words, she's the nightmare companion… Dodo Chaplet played by Bonnie Langford.

and

Not only am I still mystified as to the nature of her personality, I don't even know who's supposed to like her. With one exception, none of the Doctor Who fans with whom I regularly chew the Adipose-fat can stand her; my family doesn't seem to want anything to do with her; the kindest things I've heard said about her have been along the lines of 'well, she was all right in "The Runaway Bride", but a whole year…?'; and my extended peer-group finds her ridiculous, which is telling, when you consider how many professional comedians I know. As I've said before, we could have had anybody as This Year's Girl. We could have had Elaine Cassidy, the most companiony actress in the history of time. We could have had Carey Mulligan out of "Blink", at a pinch. Instead, they gave us the female Harry Enfield, with whom almost nobody can empathise. I can't even find it in myself to hate her, I just find it bewildering that someone whose only skills are mugging to the camera and doing silly voices should be somehow mistaken for an actress. And now we have the worst of all possible combinations, Donna Noble in the middle of an overblown sci-fi story-arc. We're supposed to be thinking "ooh, what's the secret of Donna's destiny?", but in fact, we're thinking "please just die".

Couldn't have put it better myself. Well, I could have put it more succinctly I suppose.

[Lorfarius]

Please just die?

[DirkCrisis]

I enjoyed it but two things have bothered me.

I always wondered why Daleks had different voices. If they're being distorted through the same voice box, why don't they sound the same like Cybermen? (That was a question from Dirk, aged 6)

Since Nu-Who came on air, the Doctor has been able to exert control over the TARDIS moreso than ever before. The charm of earlier episodes was that the TARDIS was a bit broken and might turn up in the right place but maybe 400 years too early. Was it ever explained how the new doctor managed to harness the TARDIS so it went where he wanted it to go?

[JPickford]

That's just a load of crap. We've learned loads about Donna and what she's about.

[SeanR]

I enjoyed it but two things have bothered me.

I always wondered why Daleks had different voices. If they're being distorted through the same voice box, why don't they sound the same like Cybermen? (That was a question from Dirk, aged 6)

Since Nu-Who came on air, the Doctor has been able to exert control over the TARDIS moreso than ever before. The charm of earlier episodes was that the TARDIS was a bit broken and might turn up in the right place but maybe 400 years too early. Was it ever explained how the new doctor managed to harness the TARDIS so it went where he wanted it to go?

the tardis tends to go where the action is, you get me?

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Also there've been plenty of times in New Who where the TARDIS has gone somewhere the Doctor wasn't expecting. Like Tooth and Claw when he expected Ian Dury and got Queen Victoria.

[DirkCrisis]

the tardis tends to go where the action is, you get me?

Well yeah, but the point still stands. I get what you and Rudi are saying but he still has a lot more control over it than he used to.

Also, should Bernard Cribbins be the new companion? Or have his own spin-off series aimed at pensioners? Last of the Summer Time?

Regardless of all my nonsense musings I really enjoyed the episode but I get confused at the soap opera-esque plot of Davros and the Supreme Dalek. Sometimes they're at war, sometimes they're allies and sometimes Davros IS the Supreme Dalek. It's all terribly confusing.

[Dalvado]

Wait a minute! The story about the Christmas Special was that David Morrissey was in it playing someone who 'thought' he was the Doctor. Maybe, just maybe, Tennant agreed to turn up for a couple of days, pop on his costume, and just wander around set to give the impression that he was filming the Christmas special? Whereas, in reality, he wasn't and the person that 'thought' was the Doctor, is.

Maybe David Morrissey IS the new Doctor? Unlikely, but I'd love it if he was!!

Or it's another post regeneration thing.. - his past self appears to him as a delusion or something..?

I reckon it'd be very possible...

Someone in the office has just speculated the same thing, and the more I think about it, the more it begins to make sense. Which would be an amazing double-bluff by the Who team. But still, I don't want Tennant to go.

...but could they really pull this off? Is it really the case that they've been able to shut everyone up who could possibly blabber to The Sun? If they have it'd be a great surprise after what happened with Ecclestone.

I would miss Tennant too.

I always wondered why Daleks had different voices. If they're being distorted through the same voice box, why don't they sound the same like Cybermen? (That was a question from Dirk, aged 6)

Aren't they still individuals in some way but with all the excess baggage of emotions removed? There's always been different Daleks with different voices from what I remember. The Daleks did split off into groups that were for and against Davros in the Old Who so some kind of individualism must be involved. Or something along those lines.

Could just be so Nicholas Briggs wants to flex his vocal talents.

[zxcvbnm]

This quote about Catherine Tate,

Instead, they gave us the female Harry Enfield

, is absolutely spot on. The problem for me is there's nothing likable about her character.

Apart from the large titties.

[zxcvbnm]

Could just be so Nicholas Briggs wants to flex his vocal talents.

Spot on according to this weeks confidential.

[Lorfarius]

This quote about Catherine Tate, , is absolutely spot on.

No its not. Harry Enfield is actually funny.

[Scribblor]

Not in that latest series he did. That was abominable.