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FishyFish

By FishyFish
in Film, TV & Radio

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linkster

linkster

Posted
Posted
I agree with all this and add my biggest bone of contention: no alien worlds.

I don't care if it's like Star Trek TOS re-dressing California desert as planet Omegabetazeta, but SOME effort must be put into making you believe the Doctor travels through space as well as time. Even the eps that aren't set on Earth are set on space stations (read: sets) or somewhere in the solar system (Luna; Mars).

New Earth?

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linkster

linkster

Posted
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There's that, but aside from a few cat alien thingies it's all humans again. It's not really an 'alien' planet in the true spirit of the word. So yeah, I pretty much agree with Treble.

Depends what you're comparing it to. Who's always been about quarries doubling for Skaro, so New Earth was better than pretty much every previous effort combined.

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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And you call me daft :)

I'd say you don't read.

Not better than Genesis as a story, but better in the way the Daleks are written. The Daleks only come into their own at the end of Genesis, when they seize control - most of the story focuses on the genius of Davros.

Evolution, though, is just about the Daleks in that respect. And their dialogue is excellent.

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Treble

Treble

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Nope. But it's one more than he mentioned.

They were off the top of my head to illustrate the point, not meant as a comprehensive list. Some people will miss the alien worlds, some will prefer that the Doctor's voyages seem more inter-twined with our reality and form a more coherent pattern than in his old adventures (at least, they seem to to me). Personally, I'd prefer the effects budget was used at making some new alien backdrops that we get to explore, with some truly weird occurances the Doctor doesn't have a clue about.

His familiarity with seemingly all situations is getting a bit boring :)

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The Boatman

The Boatman

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the TARDIS has a bathroom, with a huge swimming pool too!

The swimming pool was jettisoned along with 1/4 of the TARDIS' overall mass in Castrovalva. That's why the Doctor takes Mel to Paradise Towers in, erm, Paradise Towers when she wants to go swimming.

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Popo

Popo

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Late to the party, but I thought the second part of the Dalek story this week was a massive let-down. Extremely lazy plotting ignored, the entire episode felt boring. A real shame given how much promise the first part had.

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Sprite Machine

Sprite Machine

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Such as?
That bit in the Cybermen one when he magically dissolves them.

That, for one. Or that Daleks episode where SuperRose destroys them all. Or the other Dalek episode where the Doctor sucks them all through a portal. And in this one, he's saved at the last moment by the Dalek zombies not shooting at him because his DNA magically travelled into them (through electricity!). I don't know if it's supposed to make him seem really clever or what, but it tends to be a bit unsatisfying to watch.

And yeah, he shouts quite a lot in these, too (yelling at the Daleks, mostly).

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Kyouma

Kyouma

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It all gets contained before anything big happens. The next time an alien race invades race like in the dalek+cybermen episode, i want to see them conquer america. I want to see F-15s getting destroyed by daleks, and the white house getting blown to hell. At the moment, most alien races get control of London for about 15 minutes and dont kill anyone

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c-cat114

c-cat114

Posted
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Such as?

Doctor DNA, Dalek time travel escape clause,sonic screwdriver (although to be fair that's not just a two parter thing going on there), the whole Laslo's gonna die any sec so stand around moodily until bursting into fevered manic behaviour, Sec doing a series 1 Dalek, Solomon's Mars Attacks speech, the whole complete chance saves the day thing...

And on a more global scale what Sprite said about two parters and I'd throw in 'Go to your room' from Empty child as a good two parter let down fractionally by a slight cheap get out.

I was talking to some BA students I teach the other day about Who versus something like Delicatessen and Amelie. For me Who is best when he solves a mystery, works his way out of a corner, foils the bad guy. Yeah I like the time travel aspect but Who for me works when he thinks. At the moment it's always random variations of: Doctor and accomplice and a couple of extras surrounded by XXX aliens, he does something with the sonic screwdriver, they back off for a second and he shouts Ruuuunnnnn!!!!! Repeat to fade, especially in the first five minutes of a two parter.

Also, expanding the slight dissapointment somewhat I don't think that two parters allow the Doctor to stretch the storytelling as much as wider story arcs. I don't know if they'll ever get back to longer storylines nor whether they have a better motivation than 'the public attention won't last' sort of cowardice but so far it's all turning a bit Scooby Doo. Excellent Scooby Doo at times, but at the end of the day they seem to be in the rehashing the same storyline with a different mask on the bad guy set up. RTD didn't help when he said that Every Doctor Who story is the same in the RT interview. I don't think they need to be but I think they are becoming a little more generic.

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linkster

linkster

Posted
Posted
And on a more global scale what Sprite said about two parters and I'd throw in 'Go to your room' from Empty child as a good two parter let down fractionally by a slight cheap get out.

Oh man, I thought that was heartbreaking.

'Bad Wolf' Rose was a pretty awesome moment too, especially when she starts to think she can control it. Would've been better if she'd died though.

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c-cat114

c-cat114

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That's a bit strange. Can you explain further?

Um.. dunno, generally we have a lesson plan, try and get that killed off as much as possible and then let the work go off on a tangent which is often more interesting to all parties. The essence of storytelling is compelling characters in interesting situations so when we're talking about films (and TV/radio) that line up the dominos and then set them moving Deli and Ameli (sic and CoLC while we're at it but less so - more so on the visual side) get held up as best practise in terms of set up and knock down. Love 'em or hate 'em the finales - or the completion of foreshadowed elements - in both films are amazingly well worked out.

I know that it's not the same thing, that time is more on the films side etc and that they have more time to pace things out, I just think that in terms of set up and flow Who is suffering a bit at the moment with the one story per 45 mins general rule and the shooting schedule inherent in getting a new series in year on year plus a Christmas special. I know I look forward to seeing it, but I do think that a break and a slightly more brave view on sequential storytelling, larger budget (I mean come on, have the toys not added anything to it yet?) and braver choice in settings would give us better Who in the longer run, also I assume that the working schedules must burn out the cast quicker and I've no wish to see a new Who again for a while if it could be avoided. In the olden days how long was it between series?

Oh man, I thought that was heartbreaking.

Yeah in hindsight I explained myself wrong on that one. I thought it was beautifully acted and very poignant. I just thought it was a cheap escape in as much as it seemed out of character with the children within the context of the overall narrative - nothing alluded to the fact that they would react to parental discipline and, in terms of pacing it was buildupbuildupbuildupbuildup oh ok one line and it's sorted.... Which is a little harsh maybe, must watch it again sometime soon, I just remember thinking it was the weaker link in an otherwise excellent story. Scared the wotsits out of my daughter at the time I can tell you though.

anyhow there's still loads t o like in the series and I know it's a bit silly to start to argue with logic in the Whoniverse (No, Rose, we can't change the timeline, Blahovitch and all that unless, hang on, no the producer tells me it's OK this episode...) and the fun is staying on for the ride, but I dunno, 70% great just makes me wish for 80 or more...

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Lorfarius

Lorfarius

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Posted

If its getting as tired as you all seem to be thinking then maybe its time they had a break. Another 15 years perhaps? :ph34r:

Since it started with Eccleston I personally think its been getting worse. The current series is a bit depressing and unless there are a few fantastic episodes to come I think its time for either new script writers or a new Doctor. Now I know a lot of you are enjoying the series at present but it is being filled with a lot of silly cliches and generic actions (as mentioned earlier in the thread), when I watch the like of Life on Mars and am quite frankly blown away by its stories and scripts. I start wondering why the BBC cant manage a similar level with Dr Who.

A few good characterisation episodes would be a treat around about now, less sci fi and more story for me please. Lots of sci fi shows do it and pull it off magnificiently, why cant Dr Who?

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Bluejam

Bluejam

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I find myself enjoying series 3 a lot more than season 2 although admittedly, we are only 5 episodes in. I think 'Fear Her' tainted my memory of season 2 too much!

I am also rewatching season 1 on my Creative Zen on my way to work and it feels like a completely different series for some reason :ph34r: Just seems 'darker' (and i dont mean cos i am watching them on my Zen!)

Oh, i was looking on the Tachyon tv website the other day and they are doing pod casts commentating on various episodes of who - Classic and New - in a 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' sort of piss take way. Some of them are quite funny.

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linkster

linkster

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I find myself enjoying series 3 a lot more than season 2 although admittedly, we are only 5 episodes in. I think 'Fear Her' tainted my memory of season 2 too much!

I am also rewatching season 1 on my Creative Zen on my way to work and it feels like a completely different series for some reason :ph34r: Just seems 'darker' (and i dont mean cos i am watching them on my Zen!)

Oh, i was looking on the Tachyon tv website the other day and they are doing pod casts commentating on various episodes of who - Classic and New - in a 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' sort of piss take way. Some of them are quite funny.

Like I said a few pages back, I ended up watching Parting of the Ways when I couldn't sleep one night and was just gobsmacked by how much better it is than anything I've seen since about mid way through S2.

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