Doctor Who

[Garwoofoo]

It's been the most consistently great series of the lot so far, in my eyes at least. Gridlock especially was amazing.

Definitely, so far, in terms of consistency. Series 1 didn't really hit its stride until Dalek, and then the exceptional run of episodes from Father's Day onwards. Series 2 was all over the place with only The Girl In The Fireplace and the season finale really standing out. But pretty much every episode of Series 3 so far has been an absolute corker.

[Fireproofradiator]

if we take Garwoofo's comments as an objective barometer of quality for the entire universe (which I think we should, for the duration of the commment above) then I think my constant moaning throughout series two is now vindicated! Hooray!

I need to watch Girl in the Fireplace though.

Has anyone waded through The War Games by the way? I'm a huge fan of 'The Invasion' - loved the tone, Troughton, etc, but I'm a bit apprehensive about 10 episodes...

[Eighthours]

That's not the first time this Doctor's tried to get himself killed.

Indeed. But think about it: he's pissed with the Daleks for attacking Hooverville and wants to do something about it. But then just a minute later, he wants them to kill him?

But even leaving that aside for a second, the Daleks had a ridiculous number of opportunities to kill him in the two eps, and didn't - for no good reason. It's simply lazy writing.

By the way, how did the Doctor survive the lightning strike? Does he have "form" in this particular area?

[linkster]

The Dalek stuff was great. The arguments, the sociology of it all, I really enjoyed, just like last week. Pretty much everything else was as hammy as those stupid pigs, from the Mars Attacks! killing of the guy in Hooverville that a four year old would have laughed at to the ongoing annoyance at Tennant's Doctor (death wish? maybe, it doesn't excuse a succession of shoddy performances) and the irrelevance of his crappy companion.

Oh, nice little homage to Vampire Science with the climax (a theatre, the Doctor deliberately using his DNA against the enemy).

[Garwoofoo]

Has anyone waded through The War Games by the way? I'm a huge fan of 'The Invasion' - loved the tone, Troughton, etc, but I'm a bit apprehensive about 10 episodes...

It's fantastic. Pretty much single-handedly responsible for making Troughton my favourite Doctor (and admittedly I still have a lot of classic Who to get through across all Doctors, so don't read too much into that... but still). Drags a little in the middle, but at ten episodes you'd expect that. Still a brilliant story, and the ending is amazing.

[linkster]

Considering how many Daleks have escaped the Time War over the last 3 seasons I think we can expect a few more timelords popping up pretty soon.

That's what made the ending so shit. It was like that episode of The Simpsons with Wiggum PI. Jesus, how many times can they milk the resurrection of one character?

[linkster]

It's been the most consistently great series of the lot so far, in my eyes at least. Gridlock especially was amazing.

God I wish I could say that. What are you seeing that I'm not?

[linkster]

Probably get some UNIT (and maybe Romana) next series, I'd imagine...

Seeds of Time was written by some bloke who used to write The Avengers, I seem to remember (I get all of my facts from The Discontinuity Guide, by the way, which is the only non-fiction Doctor Who book I've got), which explains the rough and tumble. Wasn't really a fan, myself. Monster looked fucking cool when I saw it in Doctor Who weekly but disappointing when I finally saw it via UK Nova a few months back. It does have the line 'You know Doctor, I could play all day in my green cathedral...' in it though, which is possibly the strangest thing ever heard.

The doctor DID destroy the Daleks in Genesis though, at least as far as he was concerned, as he was instrumental in wrecking the incubator room. He made up his mind it was the only thing to do.

[Boyatsea]

God I wish I could say that. What are you seeing that I'm not?

The same as what everyone else but you is seeing, linkster.

[Boyatsea]

Dalek Sec's tentacles moved terribly. Didn't even looked mildly realistic, unfortunately.

Christ almighty.

I despair.

[linkster]

As for Romana, almost certainly killed when Gallifrey went boom boom being as she was President and all....

Now THAT was a fucking storyline.

Seriously children, never mind this pap, read the books.

[Jack]

I know, hybrid tentacles don't move like that in real life.

[davidcotton]

The doctor DID destroy the Daleks in Genesis though, at least as far as he was concerned, as he was instrumental in wrecking the incubator room. He made up his mind it was the only thing to do.

I thought it was established that "all" he'd done was set them back something like 1000 years, not destroyed utterly?

[linkster]

I thought it was established that "all" he'd done was set them back something like 1000 years, not destroyed utterly?

Oh in reality yes, the epilogue says as much. but he announced earlier that he would 'destroy the daleks for ever' and that's what he set out to do. I only brought it up in the context of the earlier discussion about him always wanting to find the peaceful solution.

[c-cat114]

Just watched the second of the DAlek two parter with wifey. She thought it was complete rubbish.. Me... Hmmm, I thought some of the shots were ok and it's always nice to see the tin cans moving around with purpose... So much of it felt like it was recycled though, the influences seeming more important than the result and in the end what have we got, just anoter weakening of a classic iconic bad guy. Personally, having loved the first two eps (hang on, was Gridlock ep 2 or 3? loved that one though).

Anyhow: Martha ain't doing much for me, just a safe choice companion really. daleks relegated to just one left status, monologing all over the place, some extremely dodgey effects - which normally don't bother me until Russel T starts hamming on about how real it all looked - and Tallulah. All told the weakest of the shows for me so far and the ad for next weeks makes me wonder if this is going to start to veer a little into pantomime too much for my tastes.

I did lol at the pigs in the lift waiting around for it to get to the right floor, although I don;t know if it was intentional for that to be the purpose of the shot and I did like some of the direction I guess. Dunno, just seems like a weakening of the show and the characters, making it 90 % more kids show with 10% too scarey for just to try and redress the balance. Sigh, I didn't want to be underwhelmed but, much like the final words of the face of Boe it was built up to much more than it delivered imo.

Hang on, just read a couple of previous posts, has the destruction of Gallifrey/Time War been covered in books? Which ones in that case, that's caught my interest far more than anything Who related tonight.

[c-cat114]

Oh yeah and has Emergency Temporal Shift ever been used before by Daleks or is it becoming the lazy option script escape clause in the Sonic Screwdriver mould? Don't remember them ever using it before but my memory of Who is vague at best.

[Mogster]

Hang on, just read a couple of previous posts, has the destruction of Gallifrey/Time War been covered in books? Which ones in that case, that's caught my interest far more than anything Who related tonight.

Nah, it's only been discussed in the new series, although the recent Eigth Doctor radio series made a nice reference. However, in the Eigth Doctor series of novels (completely seperate to the audios), there is a completely different Time War in which Gallifrey and the Time Lords also get wiped out (and eventually restored). That dealt with a race known as Faction Paradox, who co-ordinated their attacks by sending back tactical information from the future. Incidentally, the Doctor was reponsible for the final result here as well.

EDIT: The Dalek's temporal shift seems to be something unique to the Cult of Skaro. None of the other Daleks have ever used it.

[linkster]

Just watched the second of the DAlek two parter with wifey. She thought it was complete rubbish.. Me... Hmmm, I thought some of the shots were ok and it's always nice to see the tin cans moving around with purpose... So much of it felt like it was recycled though, the influences seeming more important than the result and in the end what have we got, just anoter weakening of a classic iconic bad guy. Personally, having loved the first two eps (hang on, was Gridlock ep 2 or 3? loved that one though).

Anyhow: Martha ain't doing much for me, just a safe choice companion really. daleks relegated to just one left status, monologing all over the place, some extremely dodgey effects - which normally don't bother me until Russel T starts hamming on about how real it all looked - and Tallulah. All told the weakest of the shows for me so far and the ad for next weeks makes me wonder if this is going to start to veer a little into pantomime too much for my tastes.

I did lol at the pigs in the lift waiting around for it to get to the right floor, although I don;t know if it was intentional for that to be the purpose of the shot and I did like some of the direction I guess. Dunno, just seems like a weakening of the show and the characters, making it 90 % more kids show with 10% too scarey for just to try and redress the balance. Sigh, I didn't want to be underwhelmed but, much like the final words of the face of Boe it was built up to much more than it delivered imo.

Hang on, just read a couple of previous posts, has the destruction of Gallifrey/Time War been covered in books? Which ones in that case, that's caught my interest far more than anything Who related tonight.

Read the Eighth Doctor from the beginning. Fabulous stuff.

Totally agree with you on this episode. You lost me on Gridlock though

[Davros sock drawer]

I can see the criticisms of Tennant's performance now. This week his constant state of angry righteousness was both unconvincing and irritating, a bit like when Sylvester McCoy tried to act angry. Ecclestone managed to hit just the right note of fear and hatred in Dalek, and this feels like a poor knock off in comparison.

The tone is fairly light this season, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. So long as we get a couple of Empty Childs amongst all the lighter stuff, I'm happy. Hopefully the forthcoming

Scarecrow

episode will provide a bit of horror. Mind you, I watched Image of the Fendahl earlier, and it has an absolutely nightmarish quality about it which is totally missing from New Who. And that used to go out at 5.50pm!

[Darren]

The same as what everyone else but you is seeing, linkster.

And me

I'm just relieved I enjoyed last night's so much. I was starting to think Doctor Who was veering off in a direction everybody else but me (and Linkster) likes. But now I'm back on board and all's well with the world.

[Davros sock drawer]

It's impossible to like every episode of Dr Who. If you don't like next week's, or the week after, there will still be one along to like after a while. Even when Colin Baker was The Doctor.

[linkster]

I can see the criticisms of Tennant's performance now. This week his constant state of angry righteousness was both unconvincing and irritating, a bit like when Sylvester McCoy tried to act angry. Ecclestone managed to hit just the right note of fear and hatred in Dalek, and this feels like a poor knock off in comparison.

The tone is fairly light this season, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. So long as we get a couple of Empty Childs amongst all the lighter stuff, I'm happy. Hopefully the forthcoming

Scarecrow

episode will provide a bit of horror. Mind you, I watched Image of the Fendahl earlier, and it has an absolutely nightmarish quality about it which is totally missing from New Who. And that used to go out at 5.50pm!

I said after eps1 it was laziness and nothing's changed that from where I'm sitting. there's no imagination, no wit. I only hope I make it to the end of the season but I've never been one for sticking with something for the sake of it. any other series, I'd be a ghost by now.

[Fireproofradiator]

Really glad someone likes Fendahl, Mr Sock Drawer. I know I'm really giving out pamplets on this one, but it's the absolute blueprint for frightening, atmospheric Who. Tells a convincing story, neat performances, frightening monsters. Rarrrr! It's really good! When they gonna release it on DVD anyway?

[Hello Goaty ♥]

Rumours abound of a Dalek episode of Torchwood next season too...

Really? here's the blueprint:

[Jug McKenzie]

.

[linkster]

Really glad someone likes Fendahl, Mr Sock Drawer. I know I'm really giving out pamplets on this one, but it's the absolute blueprint for frightening, atmospheric Who. Tells a convincing story, neat performances, frightening monsters. Rarrrr! It's really good! When they gonna release it on DVD anyway?

It's very good, but no Fang Rock.

[Davros sock drawer]

Well what is? Still my favourite. But Fendahl is cut from the same cloth. I don't think Who can ever be that dark again. I mean, Fendahl opens on a shot of a human skull!

[linkster]

Well what is? Still my favourite. But Fendahl is cut from the same cloth. I don't think Who can ever be that dark again. I mean, Fendahl opens on a shot of a human skull!

It's a good dramatisation too which is fairly rare. (Fendahl I mean). I was too young to see it first run but caught it last time it was on UK Gold, very impressed.

[Davros sock drawer]

I like the concepts too, I know it's another "man's history being shaped by an ancient alien force" story, but there's something darkly convincing about it, and I like the little details like the Fendahleen's reaction to salt being the origin of our salt over the shoulder superstition.

Might dig the novelisation out in a minute. It only takes a few hours wallowing in Tom Baker stories on Youtube to give me the bug again.

[Boyatsea]

And me

I'm just relieved I enjoyed last night's so much. I was starting to think Doctor Who was veering off in a direction everybody else but me (and Linkster) likes. But now I'm back on board and all's well with the world.

I watched it back today. Really enjoyed it again.