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FishyFish

By FishyFish
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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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I don't find it offensive. Just a bit lazy. Torchwood is a sci-fi drama so obviously it's not realistic. But it has human characters at its heart and they were initially hyped (by RTD himself) as being 'real people'. They're not. You can have practically anything ridiculous happen in a sci-fi show, but the ones that succeed are the ones that have believable characters that you can relate to on some level. Torchwood doesn't have that. The characters aren't even remotely consistent from week to week. I think Biffo is pretty much spot on with that criticism.

They're not real because they happen to swing both ways?

If you ask me, if Biffo is pissed because the characters don't represent what he considers to be a 'reality', then he's being a bit daft. And, indeed, a bit narrow-minded for a TV writer himself.

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lordcookie

lordcookie

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They're not real because they happen to swing both ways?

Of course they aren't real. There are homosexuals, staight and bi people in this world but lets be honest the likelihood of an entire team swinging both ways is pretty slim. I stopped watching the series mid way through so correct me if I am wrong but didn't all five of the main characters have some homosexual moment? To me that does seem unrealistic. Most of the time the changes in orientation came out of the blue and just seemed a way of distancing itself from Who and being 'edgy' rather than actually being a realistic response from the characters.

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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Yeah lordcookie, one of their season writing goals was that everyone in the recurring cast had to have a same-sex relationship at some stage. Which was just absurd and monotonous. It was like watching really bad fan fiction, but it's the real show.

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Eighthours

Eighthours

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Good episode last night. Loved the Doctor talking about Gallifrey at the end, really nice.

Thought that Boe's "reveal" was good without any foreknowledge, but was made far weaker in the event by the fact that every man and his dog knows that

John Simm is playing The Master this season.

Which made it a bit, "Yeah we already knew that, Boe."

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Lorfarius

Lorfarius

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Good episode last night. Loved the Doctor talking about Gallifrey at the end, really nice.

Thought that Boe's "reveal" was good without any foreknowledge, but was made far weaker in the event by the fact that every man and his dog knows that

John Simm is playing The Master this season.

I didnt ;) Explains a lot now though :(

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kensei

kensei

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Posted
If Torchwood is presenting a false view of the world then so what? The world I live in doesn't have faries and monsters either. I don't find any of that stuff offensive and for the most part it's used as humour (well in Doctor Who at least). Who knows? Maybe Peter Tatchell is pissed off at him using this stuff for jokes all the time?

The bit hinting at Shakespeare being a bit gay turned out educational for me. I looked him up on Wikipedia and found out that half his sonnets were love poems to a bloke and the other half to a mysterious 'dark lady'. Very clever.

Why if you find this annoying, it instantly = "offended". They could show The Doctor anally fisting someone and I still wouldn't be the slightest bit offended. It's just very poorly done, and it feels like the writer is pushing an agenda and I hate being hit over the head with things. What would have been much better than pushing the camp jokes all the time, would be to write a genuinely gay (as opposed to 'I'm-bi-it's-ok-I-like-girls-too') character into either of the series and develop the character properly. It isn't as if Davies is incapable.

I also disagree that Sci-Fi is about presenting a "false view of the world". Really good Sci-Fi about using the fantastical to address real things, tackling them from another angle and making you stop and think. All of the rules with regards to character and plot and consistency in all other TV and Film apply just as equally in SciFi. It why BSG can be so very, very good. The best episodes of this show - ones like Father's Day, or The Girl in the Fireplace work so well because they connect with you emotional and are believable even while remaining fantastical.

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JPickford (retired mod)

JPickford (retired mod)

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I also disagree that Sci-Fi is about presenting a "false view of the world". Really good Sci-Fi about using the fantastical to address real things, tackling them from another angle and making you stop and think. All of the rules with regards to character and plot and consistency in all other TV and Film apply just as equally in SciFi. It why BSG can be so very, very good. The best episodes of this show - ones like Father's Day, or The Girl in the Fireplace work so well because they connect with you emotional and are believable even while remaining fantastical.

I don't disagree with that. I just think that something like Torchwood is by definition set in an alternate reality and as such I think its perfectly legitimate for the writers to have flights of fancy. A few more bi characters than are statistically likely isn't a big problem for me. It's not even *that* unlikely if Captain Jack recruited them all. I've run businesses before and tended to recruit people I got on with and felt had similar attitudes.

I think if RTD wants to explore the idea of a world where people are little more sexually diverse\liberal\honest or whatever then I think that's fine. I don't personally call that an agenda - I don't feel that anyone is trying make me gay and I don't feel threatened by it. Maybe RTD is being a bit cheeky and slipping these characters into shows where people would't expect them - plenty of people would pretty much deliberately avoid 'Queer as Folk' because of its subject matter. Myself included if I'm being honest, despite many reports of its excellence.

The gay references in Doctor Who are almost always jokes and they are jokes that play on our expectations and perhaps prejudices. I don't think they are anything more than RTD cheekily winding up a minority of uptight individuals. In some cases (like the Shakespeare one) the joke is actually very clever and perfectly fitting (I know RTD didn't write that one; no idea if the writer is gay).

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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Maybe RTD is being a bit cheeky and slipping these characters into shows where people would't expect them - plenty of people would pretty much deliberately avoid 'Queer as Folk' because of its subject matter. Myself included if I'm being honest, despite many reports of its excellence.

Heh. Just so you know, John, QAF's 'subject matter' was unrequited love.

;)

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The Boatman

The Boatman

Posted
Posted
New Earth is 5,000,000,000 BC, I think.

I think it's 5,000,000,000 AD.

Still, it's amazing that the number of people watching actually went up from an FA Cup semi-final featuring Manchester United.

I do think that the writers are trying a bit too hard to give Tennant a 'Pirate Planet' ("But what is it for?") moment in each episode, that's why he seems a bit 'Tom Cruise' to some.

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Harlen Quinn

Harlen Quinn

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I wonder who the other timelord is?

(edit...sorry. Didn't see the above post or 10).

People will be going apoplectic at that. I've been thinking about it and have decided to throw in new speculation, erm, the other.

EDIT: That was clever, despite quoting your original text the board updated it to your edit when I pressed post, nifty.

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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Sounds depressing.

Without spoiler-ising it, it wasn't the happiest tale for large portions, no. I think a lot of people think it was all sex and clubbing, but it really isn't. That's just an on-off backdrop to an on-off love story. There are more scenes set in supermarkets than there are sex scenes, to be honest.

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Hexx

Hexx

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I don't disagree with that. I just think that something like Torchwood is by definition set in an alternate reality and as such I think its perfectly legitimate for the writers to have flights of fancy. A few more bi characters than are statistically likely isn't a big problem for me. It's not even *that* unlikely if Captain Jack recruited them all. I've run businesses before and tended to recruit people I got on with and felt had similar attitudes.

I think if RTD wants to explore the idea of a world where people are little more sexually diverse\liberal\honest or whatever then I think that's fine. I don't personally call that an agenda - I don't feel that anyone is trying make me gay and I don't feel threatened by it. Maybe RTD is being a bit cheeky and slipping these characters into shows where people would't expect them - plenty of people would pretty much deliberately avoid 'Queer as Folk' because of its subject matter. Myself included if I'm being honest, despite many reports of its excellence.

The gay references in Doctor Who are almost always jokes and they are jokes that play on our expectations and perhaps prejudices. I don't think they are anything more than RTD cheekily winding up a minority of uptight individuals. In some cases (like the Shakespeare one) the joke is actually very clever and perfectly fitting (I know RTD didn't write that one; no idea if the writer is gay).

QaF was brilliant, although a bit too graphic IMO. (I'd say thought hetro sex being that graphic too though!)

Twood wasn't just about people becoming bi etc with no prior precedent.

Ianto - Madly in love with Lisa, who Jack kills. Ianto swears revenge. 3 episodes later Ianto comes onto Jack.

Tosh - Seems upset that Gwen's dating Owen, seemingly fancing Owen herself. 2 Episodes later she's shacked up with some alien bird.

It just didn't feel like natural progression.

The only one that did was "Real Jack", and that was over 1 episode!

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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Ianto - Madly in love with Lisa, who Jack kills. Ianto swears revenge. 3 episodes later Ianto comes onto Jack.

Tosh - Seems upset that Gwen's dating Owen, seemingly fancing Owen herself. 2 Episodes later she's shacked up with some alien bird.

That's only two characters, you know.

The fact that there were no 'coming out' scenes - or even a need for an explanation - is refreshing and much more like real life, if you ask me. Dramas always get bogged down with people coming out. Maybe these two just happened to be bi, and didn't feel the need to shout about it?

I'm still not convinced that Ianto doesn't still have it in for Jack, anyway.

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