Doctor Who

[Boyatsea]

Dunno, it's obviously a twist and the way it was portrayed in confidential. Have you watched it?

Is the Master strictly a timelord after taking over the body of a trakenite?

I didn't see Confidential, no. Will torrent it though, hopefully.

The last we saw of the Master was actually in the TV movie, where he turned into a snake, took over the body of a human, and then fell into the 'Eye of Harmony' in the middle of the Tardis. Whether or not they're 'counting' the TV movie, I don't know, given that the Doctor said he was half human, too - that seems to have been forgotten.

[CussYouBad]

I really enjoyed the show tonight, I thought it was brilliant entertainment.

There seemed to be a lot packed into its 45 minutes, it looked lovely and Tennant was ace, especially at the end.

Great stuff.

[Garwoofoo]

I didn't see Confidential, no. Will torrent it though, hopefully.

The last we saw of the Master was actually in the TV movie, where he turned into a snake, took over the body of a human, and then fell into the 'Eye of Harmony' in the middle of the Tardis. Whether or not they're 'counting' the TV movie, I don't know, given that the Doctor said he was half human, too - that seems to have been forgotten.

I see why you spoilered that but seeing as you're only talking about the TV Movie:

RTD seems to treat the TV Movie as a part of the official canon.

The "half human" thing has never been really denied or confirmed. Most people who have a problem with it seem to dismiss it as either specific to the Eighth Doctor (with that specific regeneration introducing human elements to the Doctor's physical makeup), or claim that the Doctor was joking, or simply ignore it.

[Headache]

I'm quite liking the angle their taking with Martha and the Doctor's relationship. He likes having someone along with him to show them the universe (is he just an intergalactic tour guide now?) while she is obviously attracted to him but every time she opens herself up he rebuffs her. Tonights bit was very good, "You're not alone, maybe he meant me?" "No, sorry I don't think so."

You could just see her deflate from that. I'm kind of wondering if we'll see her beyond this series because unless the Doctor warms significantly to her she's going to end up ditching him no matter how cool the universe he shows her is.

[bolak]

I didn't see the first five minutes, but...

I loved it. The traffic jam was a great concept, lots of excellent lines, the whole episode moved along at a good pace, the big old face was in it, perfect reaction by the Doctor when told he was not alone (complete dismissal), seeing Martha looking destroyed when the Doctor said 'sorry, i don't think so' without him realising quite how seriously she meant it, and the teary way he started reminiscing about Gallifrey was lovely.

By far the best episode in a long time. Girl in the Fireplace, Dalek, and this episode. All have less pointless running about, and more talk; much like how the last episode of torchwood was so much better than the rest due to the majority of it being people talking, rather than running around acting like cunts for no reason. A fairly obvious pattern.

[biglime]

It's going to be an episode long remembered, that one, I think. It felt so much like OLD Doctor Who. Like something we might have seen in the seventies, if the budget had allowed.

I'd forgotten about the "I don't think so," from The Doctor when Martha suggested Boe meant her.

The great stuff was all very subtle. When The Doctor started properly remembering Gallifrey, you could really see it in his face.

I've got my finger hovering over the season 3 dvd boxset preorder button already.

[Boyatsea]

I didn't see the first five minutes, but...

I loved it. The traffic jam was a great concept, lots of excellent lines, the whole episode moved along at a good pace, the big old face was in it, perfect reaction by the Doctor when told he was not alone (complete dismissal), seeing Martha looking destroyed when the Doctor said 'sorry, i don't think so' without him realising quite how seriously she meant it, and the teary way he started reminiscing about Gallifrey was lovely.

By far the best episode in a long time. Girl in the Fireplace, Dalek, and this episode. All have less pointless running about, and more talk; much like how the last episode of torchwood was so much better than the rest due to the majority of it being people talking, rather than running around acting like cunts for no reason. A fairly obvious pattern.

You're right about that. I absolutely loved the last two episodes of Torchwood - up there with the best of Who. Some of the rest of the series was frankly awful, and it's quite odd that the whole series couldn't have been as good as the last few episodes.

[Darren]

Hmm. I didn't think much to that. Sure it had some great moments - the Gallifrey reminiscences, Martha's doubts about her standing with the Doctor ("You're taking me to the same planets you took her? Talk about a rebound.") - but I just didn't think the story was very good. It felt like a throwaway 200AD Future Shock or one-off Judge Dredd story from the late 70s stretched out to fill the 45 minutes. And I might have missed something crucial, but if the motorway was sealed off to protect everyone down there from the disease, how did the "emotion vendors" and their customers survive? And why, of those survivors, does "everyone go to the motorway eventually" as the woman they met buying "forget" say? It just didn't make much sense to me.

Then again this was the first episode this year we watched without the kids (as it was on later so we recorded it for them) so I might have watched it with a more critical eye than I normally do. Either way, I didn't really like it.

[cassidy]

well I loved it.

the production values again were top notch. NEarly cried when Martha was questioning the Doc at the start. Then his admittance of his lie and apology was just

Tennant was a bloody marvel.

[sweetdaddyg]

I really enjoyed that episode, thought it was pretty good, even if some parts felt like a massive nod to the classic series to appease the old fans.

THe problem for me is the fact they try to cram everythinginto one episode, they should go back to the old multi-part serials. This episode would have benefitted from that. Then the Macra wouldn't have just had a 2 minute "reveal" and they could have drawn out the drama of the face of boe dying more.

still, this season has been very very good thus far in my opinion.

[Boyatsea]

Well, this surprised me. And please let me off (biglime) for smiling as I write this.

Doctor Who was once more top of the charts with unofficial overnight figures showing that Episode Three, Gridlock, was watched by 8.0 million viewers, a 39.5% share of the total audience.

The programme was the most watched of the day by nearly two million viewers, beating Any Dream Will Do, which gained 6.2 million.

The programme had almost double the viewers of Who Wants to be a Millionaire? on ITV1.

In terms of share it was fourth, just being beaten by the sporting events of the afternoon.

With one day to go, this makes the programme the seventh most watched of the week, beating three episodes of EastEnders, and gives Gridlock a high probability of bringing Doctor Who once more into the week's top ten.

Doctor Who was again top of the children's top ten, with 1.4 million under 16s watching, double the second placed Any Dream Dill Do

Doctor Who Confidential was top of the multichannel charts, with a rating of 0.56 million viewers, over 50% more than the second placed Inspector Morse.

Grease is the Word continues to flop for ITV, while Any Dream Will Do seems to be pulling away. BBC One dominating Saturdays, anyway.

1.€¦. 8.0 (39.5%) €¦. Doctor Who (19:30) BBC1

2.€¦. 6.2 (30.7%) €¦. Any Dream Will Do (21:45) BBC1

3.€¦. 6.1 (39.6%) €¦. Match of the Day Live (17:15) BBC1

4.€¦. 6.1 (29.3%) €¦. Any Dream Will Do (20:15) BBC1

5.€¦. 5.8 (28.4%) €¦. The National Lottery: Saturday Draws (21:30) BBC1

6.€¦. 5.6 (28.5%) €¦. BBC News; Weather (22:00) BBC1

7.€¦. 4.8 (42.2%) €¦. BBC News; Regional News; Weather (17:00) BBC1

8.€¦. 4.5 (22.1%) €¦. Who Wants to be a Millionaire? (19:30) ITV

9.€¦. 4.3 (24.5%) €¦. Grease Is the Word (18:30) ITV

10.€¦ 3.8 (18.4%) €¦. Vernon Kay's Gameshow Marathon (20:30) ITV

11.€¦. 3.5 (23.1%) €¦. Harry Hill's TV Burp (18:00) ITV

12.€¦. 3.2 (39.9%) €¦. The Grand National (13:00) BBC1

13.€¦. 3.0 (22.2%) €¦. Match of the Day (22:30) BBC1

14.€¦. 2.5 (19.1%) €¦. New You've Been Framed! (17:30) ITV

15.€¦. 2.2 (11.2%) €¦. CSI:NY (21:30) CH 5

16.€¦. 2.1 (17.9%) €¦. ITV News; Sports Results; Weather (17:15) ITV

17.€¦. 2.0 (10.5%) €¦. The Dame Edna Treatment (21:30) ITV

18.€¦. 1.9 ( 9.3%) €¦. Porridge (20:30) BBC2

19.€¦. 1.8 (11.7%) €¦. Have I Got a Little Bit More News for You (22:30) BBC2

20.€¦ 1.6 ( 9.9%) €¦. The World's Greatest Comedy Characters (21:00) CH 4

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Wierd how for some the episode was 'padded' or 'stretched' yet for those that liked it it was crammed and needed longer.

I thought that was the best one so far. Cracking stuff.

I hope RTD doesn't drop gay jokes (and they are jokes). I love the way idiots get worked up about that. There's no agenda outside of winding up a few uptight people.

[Phelan]

Just downloaded it and watched it. I paid my BBC subscription for years and I'll be damned if I'm missing out on excellent television!!!

Loved this episode.

Such a beautiful balance of fun, talking, story and mood.

Simply brilliant. I shall say no more except bring on next week!!

[Phelan]

Actually I have a question.

When Tennant leaves...do they only have three more people they can use? As that will be all 13 of the Doctor's lives?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Actually I have a question.

When Tennant leaves...do they only have three more people they can use? As that will be all 13 of the Doctor's lives?

In theory yes, but considering they could change that with one line of dialogue I don't see any problem with going beyond 13.

[Andsom]

I hope RTD doesn't drop gay jokes (and they are jokes). I love the way idiots get worked up about that. There's no agenda outside of winding up a few uptight people.

It doesn't bother me in Doctor Who, simply because it's throwaway and doesn't seem unnatural or overbearing in any way. In Torchwood, however, I think Mr Biffo summed it up best:

Also, I got more and more worked up by the writers' steadfast conviction that every hetereosexual is in denial. I suppose when you surround yourself with homosexuals it's easy to believe that the entire world is homosexual.

I can't speak for my straight male friends, but I'm about as certain as I can be that I don't fancy men, and never will - however many damp Martinis I consume. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Russell T Davies (that isn't a come on, by the way).

[Mogster]

And I might have missed something crucial, but if the motorway was sealed off to protect everyone down there from the disease, how did the "emotion vendors" and their customers survive? And why, of those survivors, does "everyone go to the motorway eventually" as the woman they met buying "forget" say? It just didn't make much sense to me.

You missed something crucial. They were also "down there".

[Davros sock drawer]

That's a disappointing quote from Biffo.

[Boyatsea]

Does make him look a bit of a dick, I must say.

These things don't even occur to me when I watch Who or Torchwood.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

If Torchwood is presenting a false view of the world then so what? The world I live in doesn't have faries and monsters either. I don't find any of that stuff offensive and for the most part it's used as humour (well in Doctor Who at least). Who knows? Maybe Peter Tatchell is pissed off at him using this stuff for jokes all the time?

The bit hinting at Shakespeare being a bit gay turned out educational for me. I looked him up on Wikipedia and found out that half his sonnets were love poems to a bloke and the other half to a mysterious 'dark lady'. Very clever.

[smoothe]

Is it just me, or does the doctor not actually do anything in the last episode?

He turns up and gets pissed off, then meets the Face of Bob, then goes 'Hey hey! Pull some switches!' and makes everything better. Why couldn't the Face and Catwoman have done that ages ago?

[Bad Ambassador]

If Torchwood is presenting a false view of the world then so what? The world I live in doesn't have faries and monsters either. I don't find any of that stuff offensive and for the most part it's used as humour (well in Doctor Who at least). Who knows? Maybe Peter Tatchell is pissed off at him using this stuff for jokes all the time?

Although they were a dotty old couple and used as the source of some humour, mainly from Brannigan's "I'm an old-fashioned cat!" line, I thought they were quite sweet too - nice to see them holding hands.

I think one of them was in RTD's BBC kids' serial Century Falls from about 15 years ago, too.

[Andsom]

If Torchwood is presenting a false view of the world then so what? The world I live in doesn't have faries and monsters either. I don't find any of that stuff offensive and for the most part it's used as humour (well in Doctor Who at least). Who knows? Maybe Peter Tatchell is pissed off at him using this stuff for jokes all the time?

I don't find it offensive. Just a bit lazy. Torchwood is a sci-fi drama so obviously it's not realistic. But it has human characters at its heart and they were initially hyped (by RTD himself) as being 'real people'. They're not. You can have practically anything ridiculous happen in a sci-fi show, but the ones that succeed are the ones that have believable characters that you can relate to on some level. Torchwood doesn't have that. The characters aren't even remotely consistent from week to week. I think Biffo is pretty much spot on with that criticism.

[Not Thread Owner]

In theory yes, but considering they could change that with one line of dialogue I don't see any problem with going beyond 13.

Indeed. The Master has gone way beyond 13.

[Lorfarius]

Indeed. The Master has gone way beyond 13.

But didnt he use various ways to get round that? He didnt just have 13 regenerations from scratch, lots of other stuff happened?

[Hambury]

I really enjoyed that episode, like others have said, there was a certain old school Who feel to that one, and it felt like I had gone back to my childhood whilst I was viewing. The end scenes were great too.

[sweetdaddyg]

But didnt he use various ways to get round that? He didnt just have 13 regenerations from scratch, lots of other stuff happened?

Roger delgado was his last regeneration

he was injured and disfigured in some way and his body was a wreck, looking like a burns victim.

He then took over the body of Councillor Tremas of Traken.

This was then killed by the Daleks at the start of the tv movie, he then took over the body of creature from Skaro that looked a bit like a snake and used it to get a human body, but it started to break down because it wasn't able to handle his essence...

He tried to get the doctors body, but was sucked into the eye of harmony on the tardis.

I theorise that when Rose looked into the heart of the Tardis/eye of harmony, she released his essence and he set about making a way back to get himself a new body and find a way to get 13 more regenerations, in the five doctors President Borusa mentions something about being able to provide him another set of regenerations, and the doctor has often mentioned that a timelord can live forever so the 13 regenerations is not a hard set rule.

Perhaps they only get 13 regenerations to start with and then, depending on how they conduct themselves, they are granted more regenerations by electronic means....

[Not Thread Owner]

But didnt he use various ways to get round that? He didnt just have 13 regenerations from scratch, lots of other stuff happened?

Probably, which means there's a way round it for El Docktor too.

[Darren]

You missed something crucial. They were also "down there".

OK, so why do the people who are "down there" but not on the road all "go to the motorway eventually" as the woman said? And why don't the people who are on the motorway not get off - as there's definitely somewhere for them to go (the streets with the vendors in etc.)?

Am I over-thinking this? I don't like not liking it when everyone else does.

[Bad Ambassador]

OK, so why do the people who are "down there" but not on the road all "go to the motorway eventually" as the woman said? And why don't the people who are on the motorway not get off - as there's definitely somewhere for them to go (the streets with the vendors in etc.)?

Because they're going to a better place where the air is clean (or so they think) - hence the pregnant woman, whatever her name was, not wanting to hang around in Pharmacy Town because it would be bad for her baby.