Doctor Who

[CarloOos]

Really enjoyed that, something's just been clicking so far this series, like everyone's suddenly more confident and focused in what they're making. But a question:

Has there ever been a Dr Who episode where they've genuinely dealt with magic/witchcraft/the supernatural, and not had some kind of scientific explanation for it?

They've done ghosts, zombies, the devil, witches, spells (and that's just in the new series) and the Doctor's always had some kind of sci-fi, space and aliens explanation for it all. I'm trying to think of any older ones where there were just some straight forward, unexplained, supernatural events?

What about that Troughton one where the Medusa statue came to life?

[biglime]

I'm glad they're making it and if it wasn't for the people involved I wouldn't be able to criticise it but all the same, at its core it doesn't seem to have the direction I'd personally like to see. I'm not even sure it has a direction, which a bit scarey, given the show it is.

I think it's still way too early to judge the direction of the show.

I've actually come up with a theory, and to me, it seems to make sense

Series 1: The series they always wanted to make, recommissions be damned...

Series 2: The series they didn't expect to have.

Series 3: The series where they start to lay pipe for the long term future of the show.

I'm hoping/expecting that we see The Doctor being fleshed out this series, even if that means pissing off some old-school fans. And I expect it'll start next week, with whatever old Boe says. And personally, I don't think the show's ever been as juvenile as it was in series 1, with Aliens of London.

I miss Ecclestone's war veteran thing, but I'm starting to see little flashes of Tom Baker (and even Troughton) in Tennant, and I like it. I like it when he shouts. And I like a Doctor whose head seems to be buzzing with ideas.

And I thought this episode had one major advantage over The Unquiet Dead...mainly because The Unquiet Dead had that bizarre bit where The Doctor was hiding from zombies like a shitebag.

And Martha's great, so far.

I've noticed something interesting this year. I don't know if it's intentional, but there seems to be a lot of moments based around what time travel can actually do. Like the bit with the tie in episode 1. And the Queen chasing The Doctor even though they haven't met yet. Time travel in the first two series was treated like a thing that moves you from location to location, in a way. But they seem to be flagging up the non-linear nature of the whole time travel thing this year. There must be a reason for it.

[linkster]

Really enjoyed that, something's just been clicking so far this series, like everyone's suddenly more confident and focused in what they're making. But a question:

Has there ever been a Dr Who episode where they've genuinely dealt with magic/witchcraft/the supernatural, and not had some kind of scientific explanation for it?

They've done ghosts, zombies, the devil, witches, spells (and that's just in the new series) and the Doctor's always had some kind of sci-fi, space and aliens explanation for it all. I'm trying to think of any older ones where there were just some straight forward, unexplained, supernatural events?

What about that Troughton one where the Medusa statue came to life?

Well considering it was conceived as a science show for kids that would rather go against the grain.

[linkster]

And I thought this episode had one major advantage over The Unquiet Dead...mainly because The Unquiet Dead had that bizarre bit where The Doctor was hiding from zombies like a shitebag.

Yeah, cos he could just have raised an eyebrow at it.

Fear = good drama. Tis why Harrison Ford is the greatest action movie actor ever.

[FishyFish]

There wasn't really much production design to be done. They were locations.

I know, but I'm guessing that they're not constantly populated by people in period dress and so forth. Plus the CGI matte shots looked lovely.

[SeanR]

am I the only one who thought that QE1st sounded like a dalek?

"doctorrrr! doctorrrrrr!?!"

oh, and she looked like davros.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

am I the only one who thought that QE1st sounded like a dalek?

"doctorrrr! doctorrrrrr!?!"

oh, and she looked like davros.

Davros

[SeanR]

Davros

Whatever

[cassidy]

heres the report on last nights viewing figures. Considering the weather it was the most watched show of the night and appears to have trounced Harry Hill and Grease, also though not reported here, the viewing figures just grew and grew through the episode.

Unofficial overnight figures show that episode two, The Shakespeare Code, was watched by 6.8 million viewers.

Although the figure was down on last week the programme was still the most-watched programme of the day, both in terms of audience and share. The Easter Holiday and good weather in the UK saw audiences drop across the day.

Doctor Who comfortably beat its main rivals on ITV1, with Grease is the Word getting just 4 million viewers and Harry Hill 3.9m.

BBC One took all of the top five positions in the day's ratings chart, with Casualty getting 6 million and Any Dream Will Do 5.9m.

During transmission, Doctor Who's audience rose to peak at 8.1m during the last five minutes. It also was top of the children's chart with over double the audience of under 16s of its nearest rival.

Over on BBC Three, Doctor Who Confidential was once again the second most watched programme of the day with 617,000 viewers.

[Boyatsea]

Well considering it was conceived as a science show for kids that would rather go against the grain.

A history show, actually. The Doctor was meant to travel between historic events.

But yes. Ace episode. Hope the final ratings end up at 7 million or so. Good to see it thrash Grease is the Word.

[linkster]

A history show, actually. The Doctor was meant to travel between historic events.

I have read differently in the 30 odd years I've been a fan of the show. Anyway, Wikipedia sugggest a middle ground

The programme was intended to be educational and for family viewing on the early Saturday evening schedule. Initially, it alternated stories set in the past, which would teach younger audience members about history, with stories set either in the future or in outer space to teach them about science. This was also reflected in the Doctor's original companions, one of whom was a science teacher and another a history teacher.

[Hello Goaty ♥]

Has there ever been a Dr Who episode where they've genuinely dealt with magic/witchcraft/the supernatural, and not had some kind of scientific explanation for it?

They've done ghosts, zombies, the devil, witches, spells (and that's just in the new series) and the Doctor's always had some kind of sci-fi, space and aliens explanation for it all. I'm trying to think of any older ones where there were just some straight forward, unexplained, supernatural events?

Remember the Torchwood episode with the Faries in the forest?

thats still the best Dr. Who related episode i've seen.

There's fuck all that Capt. Jack could do, because those Fairy cunts were the real deal!

more like that please.

[CraigO]

I'm in two minds about last night's episode. It was good fun in parts, but on the whole felt a little underwhelming.

I didn't like the nature of the 'witches', they were far too OTT without a touch of irony. All the cackling and speaking in trochaic lines started to grate after a while, and the whole 'it's not magic, merely words with special powers' annoyed. I'd rather have the Doctor uncertain of the threat being faced, rather than a flimsy attempt to rationalise the supernatural trappings of the carrionites like that. I personally think that sci-fi is at its best when its used to form the story rather than explain it away, and this was guilty of the latter.

Having said that, once you accept the premise, the idea of the aliens using a play in that manner was interesting, and I enjoyed a lot of the dialogue betweeen Shakespeare, Martha and the Doctor.

The most interesting scene for me was the dialogue between the Doctor and Martha about Rose. I liked the fact that he actually felt less capable without her, especially after the talk of how his compnaions were ultimately disposable in School Reunion. It gives the show a hint of ungoing drama that the episodic nature (arc words aside) can sometimes take away. Incidentally, there wasn't a 'Mr. Saxon' mention last night, was there?

[Beta]

I think I'm in agreement with the person who said that there's just something that seems to have slid into place with this series. I didn't not enjoy the previous one, but a number of problems (a fair number of quite poor episodes, and a large amount of sloppy writing) meant that I enjoyed it far less than the first. Thankfully it seems that the people behind New Who have either listened to complaints or identified such problems, as we're two episodes in and I've thoroughly enjoyed them both. They're not perfect, of course, but things seem to be on the right track. Maybe I'm just being a little slow, but Tennant's finally beginning to walk out of Eccleston's shadow for me, and I've yet to find myself annoyed by him (this will of course change if he starts using the words "Amaaazing!" or "Impossible!" all the time again).

As for this episode, as you might guess I was rather impressed. Conversely to what I noticed someone point out, I actually thought that Freema Agyeman's performance was a little stiff at the beginning of the episode, but that seem to fade away as it progressed. The witches were alright, amusing in places and decent enough as one-shot villains. What really impressed me about the episode was its ending. The Queen's sudden recognition of the Doctor and everything that followed it made me cry out in glee. One of the best bits of the whole episode, and it's great to see them making good use of the time-travel element of the show in such a way.

[Kyouma]

Why cant The Doctor remember Queen Elizabeth? I was just wondering this. He met her in that torchwood episode (i cant remember why she wants to kill him thought)

[El Pibe]

I think Martha is fantastic. I really like her.

Enjoyed last night but it didn't quite click for me. Agree that the witches looked a bit naff.

I found Shakespeare quite irritating.

[lordcookie]

Why cant The Doctor remember Queen Elizabeth? I was just wondering this. He met her in that torchwood episode (i cant remember why she wants to kill him thought)

That was Queen Victoria not Elizabeth.

[Davros sock drawer]

My turn to be disappointed this week. That was pure nonsense, and not the good kind. Just...nonsense. Felt very "Sylvester McCoy" to me, which is one of the worst things I can say about Doctor Who. Hammy, knockabout, lacking in genuine danger or excitement, and feeling very inconsequential as a result.

Liked the ending though.

[Davros sock drawer]

Oh yeah, and why did no-one stare at them? Martha was quite flippant about the whole thing too. She travels to 1599 and seems to just suck it up.

Can't we have some proper weight to things?

Edit: Here's how to do proper, palpable tension, even with a seemingly "light hearted" Doctor in the role.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFuGYcE4xJk

God I miss those cliffhangers.

[Beta]

I was thinking of that just as the episode started, and I was glad that they at least mentioned it. It reminded of a line from Captain Jack in the WW2 two parter (still my favourite story the new series). I think he referred to Rose and the Doctor as "flag girl" and "U-Boat captain." That made me laugh, but to be honest I regard it as a bit of a given for the show, maybe it's a little jarring but I'm happy enough to concede that the Doctor just carries it off through charisma alone.

[linkster]

My turn to be disappointed this week. That was pure nonsense, and not the good kind. Just...nonsense. Felt very "Sylvester McCoy" to me, which is one of the worst things I can say about Doctor Who. Hammy, knockabout, lacking in genuine danger or excitement, and feeling very inconsequential as a result.

Liked the ending though.

what are we like?

I've never watched McCoy so can't really say, I agree the Doctor was rubbish though, it was still a decent plot.

[Davros sock drawer]

See Ghost Light for a similarly over-cooked period piece. Better than this though.

The "science" bit was very loose indeed. And as for motivation, I mean WTF? Possess an architect to build a 14-sided theatre and then go to all that trouble to get a certain line in a certain play? Talk about tortuous.

Rentaghost stuff.

Stupid Dr Who being good one minute and crap the next.

[linkster]

The "science" bit was very loose indeed. And as for motivation, I mean WTF? Possess an architect to build a 14-sided theatre and then go to all that trouble to get a certain line in a certain play? Talk about tortuous.

"You define the universe with numbers, they do it with words." I thought that was a lovely idea, for reasons too boring to explain.

[sweetdaddyg]

It was always that way, good one minute crap the next, always. Take the rose tinted shades off.

Oh and did anyone else notice that the architect guy was superhands from Peep show?

[Beta]

Super Hans . And yeah, it was a pretty cool little cameo, if you can call it that.

[sweetdaddyg]

Is it Hans?

IIRC my DVDs of Peep Show read super hands on the subs....

hmmm any excuse to dig out Peep Show is a good one in my book!

[Davros sock drawer]

It was always that way, good one minute crap the next, always. Take the rose tinted shades off.

I know that. No Rose-tinted glasses here. It does frustrate though, as it always has done.

[Davros sock drawer]

"You define the universe with numbers, they do it with words." I thought that was a lovely idea, for reasons too boring to explain.

Nice idea maybe, but it didn't really stand up as a working concept. At least, we had to take a massive leap of faith to believe that just saying stuff would make other stuff happen, because well, it's their technology innit?

[linkster]

At least, we had to take a massive leap of faith to believe that just saying stuff would make other stuff happen, because well, it's their technology innit?

Mate, this is a programme about a guy who travels in time by winding a gramophone.

[Jack]

Oh and did anyone else notice that the architect guy was superhands from Peep show?

Apparently they managed to section him this time.