Doctor Who

[Graham S]

Wonderful. Perfect end to the series, and a perfect end to the Rose story.

Obviously I had a fairly good idea how things were going to end up, but I was terrified for Rose when I thought she was about to fall into hell with a load of Daleks and Cybermen. I mean, I know she's been annoying once or twice this season, but she didn't deserve that. The missus was tense for a different reason: she was scared Mickey might get stuck on our side of the borderline.

Catherine Tate turning up is the most spine-chilling, horrific end to an episode ever. Talk about a cliffhanger. For a minute I feared she'd be the new regular companion and I was screaming like a cyberman with his emotion suppressor deactivated. And then I remembered the Dr Who Xmas episode. Phew.

Parent watch: My missus went to a dinner with some of the other parents at our daughter's nursery last night .She perked up when the conversation turned to Who, but of course she was the only one who watched it herself, everybody else had four and five year old boys who are just desperate to watch it. You're nobody in the classroom today if you don't, which means things are all right with the modern world. Some of the less clued-up kids you can fob off with something called "Totally Doctor Who" on kids telly, but otherwise you've just got to put up with years of nightmares and bedwetting. I'm glad my girl doesn't watch it, what with Canary Wharf being so prominent, which you can see looming large out of our window at home. You might as well have showed Daleks and Cybermen in her bedroom, it would have been equally as scary.

So the other night one four year old lad was in floods of tears watching the end of the show. "What's the matter, sweetheart?" asked one uncomprehending mother "They love each other, mum" blubbed the inconsolable boy. It gets you right here, doesn't it?

And then, later that night. (I'm not sure if it was the same kid or a different boy.) The night terrors. The screams. The wailing.

"The Daleks! The Daleks! They're coming to get me Dad! Help! The Daleks!"

The dad tries to comfort his hysterical boy.

"Don't worry, son. Daleks can't climb up stairs."

"NOOOOOOOO!!! Dad! Daleks can ELEVATE!"

[Boyatsea]

So the other night one four year old lad was in floods of tears watching the end of the show. "What's the matter, sweetheart?" asked one uncomprehending mother "They love each other, mum" blubbed the inconsolable boy. It gets you right here, doesn't it?

I'm close to tears reading that. Bless.

[Popo]

HERE!

I just remembered Captain Jack was supposed to be back this series. What happened there?

[toonfool]

Nah, he wasn't due back this series. I think there was a rumour that he'd be back in series three, but he's going to Torchwood now. Which probably means he will be in series three anyway, at some point.

[Boyatsea]

What about the face of Bo, though. Eh?

[Atreyu]

The maggots are from The Green Death, whilst those spiders you mention feature in Planet of the Spiders, which concludes with the Doctor's regeneration.

There is a link between them, though, in that the blue crystal from Metabelis 3 the Doctor sports in TGD is the very same one that gets him into trouble & eventually provokes his regeneration in POTS.

Giant spiders also troublesome things for young minds, come to think of it. Especially in Oz, where the stuff you do at school leaves you terrified that you'll discover a redback or other highly venomous spider under your toilet seat. Took me years to shake off that particular phobia.

[Jack]

You might as well have showed Daleks and Cybermen in her bedroom, it would have been equally as scary.

Sir, I direct you to the post I made with this image:

I guarantee you that on the night "Army Of Ghosts" went out, millions of children had nightmares about the Cybermen breaking into their houses.

"The Daleks! The Daleks! They're coming to get me Dad! Help! The Daleks!"

The dad tries to comfort his hysterical boy.

"Don't worry, son. Daleks can't climb up stairs."

"NOOOOOOOO!!! Dad! Daleks can ELEVATE!"

Actually, my brother works on a summer school play scheme thing, and he was telling me that they did a first aid class with a mannequin/dummy thing, and one of the kids said "Look, it's an Auton!".

[Mogster]

Actually, my brother works on a summer school play scheme thing, and he was telling me that they did a first aid class with a mannequin/dummy thing, and one of the kids said "Look, it's an Auton!".

Bearing in mind that they were never actually mentioned by name in Rose, that's impressive.

[Alex W.]

Just watched Doomsday again. I want my shoes to make the Cyberman noise when I walk.

[Jack]

When they get the BAFTA for the second series (which they will), they should have a squad of Cybermen march onto the stage to collect it.

[Phelan]

Ere,

On IMDB.com they have Captain Jack listed as starring in it. Anyone see him?

Season 2, Episode 13: Doomsday

8 July 2006

Earth becomes the battlefield for the greatest and deadliest war of all time, as the Daleks and the Cybermen clash with the whole universe at stake. The Doctor and Rose, reunited with old friends and Cybermen experts Mickey and Jake, race to find a way to bring the war to an end before it brings about the destruction of the whole of space and time. But the Doctor soon faces an even bigger dilemma - could ending the war mean the death of Rose?David Tennant .... The Doctor

Billie Piper .... Rose Tyler

Camille Coduri .... Jackie Tyler

John Barrowman .... Captain Jack Harkness

Nicholas Briggs .... Cybermen Voices

Shaun Dingwall .... Pete Tyler

Rochelle Gadd .... Sally

Trisha Goddard .... Herself

Jo Joyner .... Lynda Moss

Tracy-Ann Oberman .... Yvonne Hartman

Zoë Wanamaker .... Cassandra

Barbara Windsor .... Peggy Mitchell

[Boyatsea]

Ere,

On IMDB.com they have Captain Jack listed as starring in it. Anyone see him?

Yeah, saw that a while ago. But IMDB were the ones who mentioned Davros, were they not? Think they are making it up as it comes along.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

When they get the BAFTA for the second series (which they will), they should have a squad of Cybermen march onto the stage to collect it.

Not possible. They all got sucked into Pete's World . You aren't following this are you?

[Alex W.]

Yeah, saw that a while ago. But IMDB were the ones who mentioned Davros, were they not? Think they are making it up as it comes along.

They are. For the most part the IMDB's information comes from user submissions, which are judged soley on the user's previous submissions. If something's blatantly nonsense it'll be rejected, and if you've posted up lots of stuff that's since been deleted then your submissions might not go through in future, but for the most part it's easy to get any old twaddle included on the site.

[Jack]

Not possible. They all got sucked into Pete's World . You aren't following this are you?

Ah, but at the last BAFTAs, they had the black Dalek there, and that would have been in the Void Ship at the time.

[scottcr]

RTD said that the cybermen were sucked back through the fault lines into the void...

hmm... but - the fault lines had specific locations (like along the side of the pool at the Taj Mahal ) - what about the ones that had wandered away from those locations - what happened to them?

[Mr. Pickle]

It amazes me how smartarse people try and find TEH PLOTHOLES in a programme whereby a man with two hearts flies around the universe in a police box destroying robots that can sit in a void ship and metallic robots that used to be human. :s

The whole thing is deisgned to be escapist fantasy. What do you hope to achieve by finding holes in a programme that by its very nature is ridiculous?

Fame on an internet forum? Well done.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

It amazes me how smartarse people try and find TEH PLOTHOLES in a programme whereby a man with two hearts flies around the universe in a police box destroying robots that can sit in a void ship and metallic robots that used to be human. :s

The whole thing is deisgned to be escapist fantasy. What do you hope to achieve by finding holes in a programme that by its very nature is ridiculous?

Fame on an internet forum? Well done.

The thing is, they aren't finding any plot holes. Or at least they aren't posting them on here.

Just because it's a fantasy doesn't mean the plot shouldn't have its own logic though.

RTD said that the cybermen were sucked back through the fault lines into the void...

hmm... but - the fault lines had specific locations (like along the side of the pool at the Taj Mahal ) - what about the ones that had wandered away from those locations - what happened to them?

They got sucked into the nearest fault line. The faults were all over the place, there were millions of them.

Ah, but at the last BAFTAs, they had the black Dalek there, and that would have been in the Void Ship at the time.

The void exists outside of time. Besides the black Dalek can do emergency temporal shifts, mainly to escape being sucked into the void and\or collecting awards.

[Mr. Pickle]

Yeah, to some extent I agree about the logic - especially if the logic is based on some "human element" that we could relate to.

But when people talk about fault lines to another universe - or some other fantastical concept which is impossible like something the doctor did / said - they forget that the concept of the programme is that a man flies around in a police box dispensing time lord (what's a time lord?) justice to the evil bad guys all over the universe.

If you're (not you JP) going to pick holes in the plots - you may as well pick holes in the concept.

[jimmyrazor]

What about the face of Bo, though. Eh?

?

Actually, I thought that. Xmas special?

[Eighthours]

The point is that no matter how far-fetched the concept of a series, what happens in each individual episode has to be logical and consistent.

I personally didn't see anything wrong with Saturday's episode in that regard, other than that the Doctor was again a guest star in his own show, and the solution to the problem was... again... as always... very contrived.

[Sprite Machine]

The thing is, they aren't finding any plot holes. Or at least they aren't posting them on here.

Oi, I did.

Just because you can fill plot holes with explanations, doesn't mean they aren't holes.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Just because you can fill plot holes with explanations, doesn't mean they aren't holes.

Yes it does. If there's a logical, plausible explanation then it isn't a plot hole.

[Sprite Machine]

It amazes me how smartarse people try and find TEH PLOTHOLES in a programme whereby a man with two hearts flies around the universe in a police box destroying robots that can sit in a void ship and metallic robots that used to be human. :s

The whole thing is deisgned to be escapist fantasy. What do you hope to achieve by finding holes in a programme that by its very nature is ridiculous?

It's not ridiculous by its very nature. It's fantastical.

I think I've been over this before, though (Xmas episode) .

Yes it does. If there's a logical, plausible explanation then it isn't a plot hole.

Cobblers.

It's a plot hole if it needs to be explained outside of the plot.

[Andsom]

If you're (not you JP) going to pick holes in the plots - you may as well pick holes in the concept.

No. Because there's obviously a difference between a concept and a plot.

Yes it does. If there's a logical, plausible explanation then it isn't a plot hole.

If it has to be explained away by fanwank explanations then it's a plothole.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

It's not ridiculous by its very nature. It's fantastical.

I think I've been over this before, though (Xmas episode) .

Cobblers.

It's a plot hole if it needs to be explained outside of the plot.

Well I disagree. I don't want to see every detail explained on screen. It would limit the show tremendously. None of the so-called plot holes posted so far are holes - they all have a perfectly simple explanation. None of them confused me.

No. Because there's obviously a difference between a concept and a plot.

If it has to be explained away by fanwank explanations then it's a plothole.

It only has to be explained to people who aren't watching properly or who aren't thinking properly.

I'm sure there ARE plot holes in there but nobody has posted any so far.

[Andsom]

Well I disagree. I don't want to see every detail explained on screen. It would limit the show tremendously. None of the so-called plot holes posted so far are holes - they all have a perfectly simple explanation. None of them confused me.

It only has to be explained to people who aren't watching properly or who aren't thinking properly.

I'm sure there ARE plot holes in there but nobody has posted any so far.

Obviously not everything has to be presented on a plate. But a lot of the stuff that you say 'aren't plotholes' are things that require some impressive leaps of logic to explain.

[kensei]

Obviously not everything has to be presented on a plate. But a lot of the stuff that you say 'aren't plotholes' are things that require some impressive leaps of logic to explain.

Nothing John has posted has required a great leap of logic. I think you really do wantg everything on a plate. Problem is, every episode would be 18 hours long.

[Bad Ambassador]

The final rating for 'Army of Ghosts' was 8.19 million...

1 WORLD CUP 2006: ENG V POR (SAT 1600) BBC1 16.21

2 WORLD CUP 2006: POST-MATCH (SAT 1843) BBC1 13.78

3 WORLD CUP 06 - POST MATCH (FRI 1832) ITV1 9.58

4 CORONATION STREET (SUN 1955) ITV1 9.03

5 WORLD CUP 06 (TUE 1959) ITV1 9.02

6 CORONATION STREET (MON 1933) ITV1 9.00

7 DOCTOR WHO (SAT 1900) BBC1 8.19

8 CORONATION STREET (WED 1929) ITV1 7.84

9 EASTENDERS (TUE 1930) BBC1 7.82

10 WORLD CUP 2006: SWI V UKR (MON 2000) BBC1 7.42

More than EastEnders. Cripes.

[Andsom]

Nothing John has posted has required a great leap of logic. I think you really do wantg everything on a plate. Problem is, every episode would be 18 hours long.

Most of it at least required baseless speculation. So the head of Torchwood Cyberman was crying because her conversion went wrong and that was brain fluid leaking out? Course it was. How silly of me not to get that.