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FishyFish

By FishyFish
in Film, TV & Radio

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mr_greedy

mr_greedy

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See, with this biglime fellow it always seems to get personal. Memory serves that you try to belittle BoyAtSea a number of times in this thread. What's all that about?

Anyway.

Damn good I thought. The Genesis Ark being a prison ship was unexpected. I think a Davros return would have been more obvious but given more scope for future stories. I figured the sphere would have had a bunch of Daleks in it last week. I also figured that Billy wasn't going to 'die'. Her sitting on a bus eating chips inbetween her shifts at the shop.. after what she's seen.. she may as well be dead.

The Dalek banter was ace. Unexpected. I raised an eyebrow at the pest control remark. But then, these ARE those Dalek thinktank Daleks with names - so they don't have to behave like 'proper' Daleks. The black Dalek rools. Seriously. You just knew that a who lotta Cybermen were gonna get slain :D

For all the 'you can't like Dr. Who' comments, you've got to remember, this isn't "Doctor Who". This is "Doctor Who II" by BBC Wales. And we're living in 2006. Telly is different now.

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pretentious_helvetica

pretentious_helvetica

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This might have been posted before but what the hell. This bloke's scanned in the first 25 or so episodes of the old tv21 dalek strips (I first read them in Doctor Who weekly in black and white, these are the colour versions). Written by David Whittaker BTW, even though it says by Terry Nation on every page!

http://ganolan.users.btopenworld.com/Chron.../chronicles.htm

My brother picked up a load of TV21 issues dirt cheap - basically it was like a newspaper for kids! Except with, er, no political scandals but a lot of sci-fi stuff. In one issue there was the chance to win a Dalek too. Imagine. Winning a Dalek. Still excites many people (including myself) today.

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JBD

JBD

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My brother picked up a load of TV21 issues dirt cheap - basically it was like a newspaper for kids! Except with, er, no political scandals but a lot of sci-fi stuff. In one issue there was the chance to win a Dalek too. Imagine. Winning a Dalek. Still excites many people (including myself) today.

That would have been one of the movie daleks, too, so better built than the BBC ones! Christ, when I was a kid I'd have sawed my own legs off to own a dalek.

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Davros sock drawer

Davros sock drawer

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RTD really ballsed this one up. Terrible plot. Holes everywhere. Slushy preposterous scenes. Characters behaving as they shouldn't. Characters appearing for no reason. No sense of scale. No sense of dramatic drive. And terrible dialogue.

An episode saved by Billie Piper, who isn't in the next series. Ulp.

And more worryingly, the creeping sense that Tennant is incapable of rising above bad material.

Worrying.

No, no, no, no NO!

You sir, are in error. Here's why:

Tennant was superb in this, genuinely superb.

Hilarious dialogue.

A genuine sense of sheer trauma between the Doctor and Rose.

Amazing action scenes.

Daleks FRIED A MAN'S HEAD!

Couldn't have enjoyed it more.

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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The Dalek banter was ace. Unexpected. I raised an eyebrow at the pest control remark. But then, these ARE those Dalek thinktank Daleks with names - so they don't have to behave like 'proper' Daleks. The black Dalek rools. Seriously. You just knew that a who lotta Cybermen were gonna get slain :D

See, I felt like I should be backing the Cybermen, given that they were always my favourite enemy when I was growing up. But watching the Daleks slaughter them with such ease was quite something to behold - it's testament to just how well designed the new Daleks are. They look like how they are meant to - completely solid and virtually impregnable - rather than a wobbling tin-pot wandering about uselessly (I'm thinking of Destiny of the Daleks here).

I'd have liked to have seen more shots of the battle, but the Daleks really have been used well since the show returned.

I hope they never go away. :D

Tennant was superb in this, genuinely superb.

Hilarious dialogue.

A genuine sense of sheer trauma between the Doctor and Rose.

This.

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Fireproofradiator

Fireproofradiator

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I liked that the Cybermen thought they looked cool ref their remark on aestetics or whatever it was! Difficult to square it with the emotionless schtick from the cybermen's point of view, but that's never really been a strong point (ref the squillions of times the cyberleader and other head of operations have exclaimed 'Excellent!' and other exclamations of satisfaction when they captured the doctor in the old series')...

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Davros sock drawer

Davros sock drawer

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I do agree with Biglime on one very important element - Billie Piper absolutely outdid herself in this. I don't think I've ever seen an actress nail sheer heartbreak like that. Real sick to the stomach stuff, and they did so well to distance the Doctor from her at the last, to snatch the words away that she so desperately wanted to hear.

And I actually loved the sneak preview of The Xmas episode. It would have been pretty grim to leave it as it was, and this was an important statement for them to make - that Who goes on, new adventures, new people, coming on Christmas Day no less. And Catherine Tate is a great choice for the mainstream Who audience, regardless of what you may think of her (I think her sketch show is dire). Who has a great tradition of famous guest stars, and to say it represents cause for concern is just doom-mongering.

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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I liked that the Cybermen thought they looked cool ref their remark on aestetics or whatever it was! Difficult to square it with the emotionless schtick from the cybermen's point of view, but that's never really been a strong point (ref the squillions of times the cyberleader and other head of operations have exclaimed 'Excellent!' and other exclamations of satisfaction when they captured the doctor in the old series')...

Hehe, I used to quite like the 'Excellent' part. The joke you point out worked well though.

And I actually loved the sneak preview of The Xmas episode. It would have been pretty grim to leave it as it was, and this was an important statement for them to make - that Who goes on, new adventures, new people, coming on Christmas Day no less. And Catherine Tate is a great choice for the mainstream Who audience, regardless of what you may think of her (I think her sketch show is dire). Who has a great tradition of famous guest stars, and to say it represents cause for concern is just doom-mongering.

Indeed.

ITV's attempt at Marple suffered because literally every single character was someone overtly famous. All the castings were made with the trailers in mind, and were completely token as a result. You didn't believe anyone had murdered anyone else because they were all B-list celebs. However, Peter Kay aside, Who's casting has been very clever on this front. Tracey-Anne Oberman, for instance, was excellent in Army of Ghosts - she played that 'people's person' role spot on. As was whatshername as Queen Victoria.

As Tate did indeed used to be an actress, I'm not especially worried about her casting.

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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I prefer Tennant to Eccleston and think his 'look' is superb.

Billie acted her heart out as well.

It wasn't perfect but what else has British TV got going on right now to match it?

I think technically Eccleston played the part better, but Tennant is much more accessible. His funny parts are funnier, and he is generally lighter all the time. I think Eccleston was exactly the right casting to begin with - he played it so seriously, but that was the right way to go. The fans could well have rejected him had he been to airy-fairy.

But Tennant was the right direction to take. The Christmas Invasion pretty much proved that he could play the part well to a mainstream audience.

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Earth

Earth

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Some queeesstions:

1)I missed the first 15-20mins. Is the cyberman that does you "you shall not pass, will do my duty for king and country" that leader of touchwood person? :D

2)Did the black dalek transport when it saw what was happening at the end? Where exactly did all the daleks/cybermen vanish to? If they're dead, does this make the black dalek the only dalek left alive? (Ever.)

I didn't like the ending. It works of course, but The Doctor sounded a little harsh towards Rose during most of it. Not being able to say what he was going to say was pretty annoying as well. That doesn't end things well for rose, imo. She was too close and to end it that way...hrm.

EDIT:Compared to last years finale and how everything was all tied up and all made sense, this was a mix and match of things. Still great, but not perfect like last year. I did like Ecc's more serious and frank Doctor.

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JohnC

JohnC

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Some queeesstions:

1)I missed the first 15-20mins. Is the cyberman that does you "you shall not pass, will do my duty for king and country" that leader of touchwood person? :D

2)Did the black dalek transport when it saw what was happening at the end? Where exactly did all the daleks/cybermen vanish to? If they're dead, does this make the black dalek the only dalek left alive? (Ever.)

1) Yes.

2) Yes. And they all vanished into the void between the universes, where that ship the Daleks were hiding in came from. And the black Dalek would be the only Dalek left alive that we currently know of. Can't say there will never be any more. They've been killed of before now, only for writers to find some way to bring them back.

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Davros sock drawer

Davros sock drawer

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That would be pretty much perfect if you chopped the last ten seconds off. Totally soured the moment for me.

Just think of it as being the trailer for next week's.

By the way, loved the notion of the four thinktank Daleks, The Cult of Skaro. Nice addition to the Who Mythos, and clearly a means of adding character to the Black Dalek for future meetings. And the stuff about the Doctor being at the frontline too, loved that.

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Jack

Jack

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Just think of it as being the trailer for next week's.

It would have worked better if it actually was a trailer. Jacob's Ladder would have been really shit if he turned around and yelled "SEE YOU NEXT TIME, KIDS!" before he ascended the staircase.

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biglime

biglime

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It would have worked better if it actually was a trailer. Jacob's Ladder would have been really shit if he turned around and yelled "SEE YOU NEXT TIME, KIDS!" before he ascended the staircase.

Well said.

I was a bit annoyed with certain things throughout the episode, but if it had just ended on that lovely last five minutes and the Doctor alone in the Tardis, it would have cast a nice light on the preceding 40 minutes.

As it happened, the final straw got thrown in my face.

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Davros sock drawer

Davros sock drawer

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It would have worked better if it actually was a trailer. Jacob's Ladder would have been really shit if he turned around and yelled "SEE YOU NEXT TIME, KIDS!" before he ascended the staircase.

As I opined, I think it was important not to leave it on a note of abject misery. That The Doctor goes from mourning the departure of a dearly loved companion one minute, to puzzling over the sudden appearance of a bride in the Tardis the next, symbolises his lot in life. It's the nature of the series, and of the character. He leaves people behind, time and time again, and moves on to adventures new.

Well said.

I was a bit annoyed with certain things throughout the episode, but if it had just ended on that lovely last five minutes and the Doctor alone in the Tardis, it would have cast a nice light on the preceding 40 minutes.

As it happened, the final straw got thrown in my face.

You're wrong again. The next straw was being pulled for you. Doctor Who returns at 7pm on Christmas Day. Don't you see that's what they were doing?

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Boyatsea

Boyatsea

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Just think of it as being the trailer for next week's.

By the way, loved the notion of the four thinktank Daleks, The Cult of Skaro. Nice addition to the Who Mythos, and clearly a means of adding character to the Black Dalek for future meetings. And the stuff about the Doctor being at the frontline too, loved that.

Suspect when I watch it again later I'll find lots of other bits I love.

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biglime

biglime

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You're wrong again. The next straw was being pulled for you. Doctor Who returns at 7pm on Christmas Day. Don't you see that's what they were doing?

I see what they were doing, but it was a real misfire.

What's the hook for watching the Christmas Episode?

"A bride is on the Tardis."

That's a very weak premise for a teaser, without even going into the fact that the REAL hook was:

"Catherine Tate is on the Tardis."

It only weakened the dramatic effect of Rose's departure. A balls-up. A real groaner.

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