Doctor Who

[The Boatman]

Or maybe The Doctor never arrives during the events and it's a completely self-contained, Doctorless story, but then in a later episode a story takes place amidst the aftermath of whatever happens, maybe centuries later. Could be a good thing.

I'm rather surprised Cassidy didn't point out that they did this in 1965 with 'Mission to the Unknown', an episode sans Doctor and companions that was a prequel to the later story 'The Daleks' Master Plan'.

If anyone wants to know whats inside the thingy the SFX preview mentions I will post it in a spoiler.

AAAARGH I really was not expecting that AT ALL! Don't click people

[FishyFish]

If anyone wants to know whats inside the thingy the SFX preview mentions I will post it in a spoiler.

its a black dalek, so thats Daleks and Cybermen in the finale

Oooh! Don't have a clue what's inside, so I'm gonna do my all out best to avoid spoilering myself before it airs.

<Cue Terry and Bob-like avoidance shenanigans...>

[cassidy]

Oooh! Don't have a clue what's inside, so I'm gonna do my all out best to avoid spoilering myself before it airs.

<Cue Terry and Bob-like avoidance shenanigans...>

*whistles* and saunters away

Well it is a pretty big spoiler

[Mogster]

You have no idea how tempting that spoiler is. Must. Resist.

I'm a little dissapointed by the SFX "Fear Her" preview though. With Mat Graham at the helm I was expecting something great. Still, Boomtown was also criticised for being too talky, and that was great. Fingers crossed anyway.

[Matt Defis]

Just finally got around to watching Saturdays episode, i hated it up until the point Peter Kay turned into that thing i couldn't stop laughing. It went from complete boredom to comedy gold in about 3 seconds. The bit where Peter Kay ran out the door in make up and looked at the camera and went RAR was amazing.

[Harmunt]

A really great episode, brave and funny and up there with my absolute favourites from this series.

Any episode that's specifically designed to piss off the fanbase and features a fat man in a thong as the main bad guy gets my vote any day. When you add in a paving slab that gives blowjobs and consider the fact that the episode featured virtually no Rose whatsoever (yippee!) then there's really nothing to dislike.

Anyway, joking apart, it was interesting to see the Doctor from an outsider's point of view. He seemed very strange and distant in this - David Tennant's Doctor really is the most "alien" of all the Doctors since, probably, Tom Baker. I like.

What he said!

[Meh]

Yup, definately my favourite, love how ruthless it was when it sets off the sprinklers and then electrocutes eeeveryone at once And then when you thought it was going to turn out to go all soft because of contact with Rose it describes what's happening to it as sickness, brilliant. Probably the most rewatchable of the first series I reckon, did you notice the Alien egg in the museum at the start?

I didn't notice that!

I did love how utterly smashed off its tits the Dalek inside the armour looked, though.

[Moose]

Woohoo - just read that one of the new original DW DVD releases will be the Return of the Master boxset in January (with a feature-lite Sontaran Experiment and missing-eps-done-with-animation Invasion to fill the schedule along with Hand of Fear and Mark of the Rani for the rest of this year).

I've found Logopolis and (especially) Castrovalva to be real marmite episodes for the DW fanbase and world at large, but they're two of my favourite stories. I like Bidmead's "serious" approach to the show, even though in technological terms it's not really that much more complex than what you'd find in an early 80s Usbourne book about microcomputers. In fact, I think it's that retro-ish ZX81 way of looking at computers and science that gives the Bidmead DW era a lot of its charm. Plus, Logopolis has a lovely eerie funereal gloom about it, which is pretty fitting.

Keeper of Traken is fun, and it's nice to see Anthony Ainley give a well-judged, understated performance as a contrast to the near-pantomime that lay in the future for him as the Master. The commentaries especially'll be fun for this - Ainley's commentary for Traken will finally be heard, Sir Tom will hopefully be laying down a track for Logopolis (potentially with Waterhouse? Bidmead? Maybe Janet Fielding?), and then we've got the sheer glory that is a Davison commentary for Castrovalva to finish off with.

In summary: top!

[Davros sock drawer]

Excellent, I love those three stories. Keeper of Traken always scared me as a kid ("A newwww bodyyy at lasssst!"), and it was one of the first I bought on VHS when I rediscovered Who in the mid 90's.

[Boyatsea]

It really wasn't. It just isn't what you'd expect from Who.

You wait, I reckon this will be regarded as a bit of a future classic.

It really won't.

It was such a poor piece of television. Not even talking about Who - it was just terrible.

[Bluejam]

Woohoo - just read that one of the new original DW DVD releases will be the Return of the Master boxset in January (with a feature-lite Sontaran Experiment and missing-eps-done-with-animation Invasion to fill the schedule along with Hand of Fear and Mark of the Rani for the rest of this year).

I've found Logopolis and (especially) Castrovalva to be real marmite episodes for the DW fanbase and world at large, but they're two of my favourite stories. I like Bidmead's "serious" approach to the show, even though in technological terms it's not really that much more complex than what you'd find in an early 80s Usbourne book about microcomputers. In fact, I think it's that retro-ish ZX81 way of looking at computers and science that gives the Bidmead DW era a lot of its charm. Plus, Logopolis has a lovely eerie funereal gloom about it, which is pretty fitting.

Keeper of Traken is fun, and it's nice to see Anthony Ainley give a well-judged, understated performance as a contrast to the near-pantomime that lay in the future for him as the Master. The commentaries especially'll be fun for this - Ainley's commentary for Traken will finally be heard, Sir Tom will hopefully be laying down a track for Logopolis (potentially with Waterhouse? Bidmead? Maybe Janet Fielding?), and then we've got the sheer glory that is a Davison commentary for Castrovalva to finish off with.

In summary: top!

Great Stuff, i loved Logopolis as a kid even if i didnt have any idea what was going on!. It'll be great hearing Ainley as well. Hopefully a fitting tribute to him. Thought he was great as the master.

[Davros sock drawer]

won't.

Will.

[Bluejam]

Finally joined the 'Outpost Gallifrey' forum

Christ, its a scary place.

[PyramidFace]

According to Outpost Gallifrey "the audience appreciation index (AI) figure for "Love & Monsters" was reported at 76... a low for the season by tied with the first season's "Rose" and "The End of the World"." Make of that what you will L&M haters...

[cassidy]

Finally joined the 'Outpost Gallifrey' forum

Christ, its a scary place.

And I bet thats without even venturing into THE LEISURE HIVE .

Its not that scary, just a typical forum about a TV show. However Who fandom is a broad church with a lot of zealots and but there are plenty of non scary posters on there.

Like me plasticine punk, is my username on OG BTW due to cassidy already being taken and me fancying a Who related username.

[Jumble Jumble]

Just in preparation for next week: if some people don't like it (happens every week), can others try not to defend it with "that's how it's meant to be" please?

I'm sure everyone here realises that the makers don't accidentally release Doctor Who episodes that they don't think are good enough. To imply that they don't realise this is a little bit patronising. It's never intended to be rubbish, is it?

This last episode was a good example. Some people didn't like it, myself included. We then had to wade through people telling us we hadn't understood what the programme was meant to be.

I know they meant it to be different. That's fine. RTD specified it might annoy some people - he meant it might annoy them because the Doc's not in it much. He didn't think it would be funny to make one with shit acting and dodgy dialogue and then archly suggest it might annoy some people. And no-one's implying that he did.

I think what it was meant to be could have been really, really brilliant. For example, some really good Superman stories don't feature the man himself AT ALL.

I just think the execution of this one was dodgy and THAT wasn't intentional.

So let's leave the intent argument out entirely next week eh?

[Davros sock drawer]

I assume that's aimed at me.

My point was that it was executed well, but that some people couldn't see what it was actually trying to do.

If that's belittling others' opinions, or patronising in any way, then I of course apologise.

[Boyatsea]

I assume that's aimed at me.

My point was that it was executed well, but that some people couldn't see what it was actually trying to do.

If that's belittling others' opinions, or patronising in any way, then I of course apologise.

I could see exactly what it was trying to do. It was a romp, just like it was billed, and for the first 20/25 minutes it was rather good. Some really good lines, and some really well crafted scenes with Jackie; she's rather excellent.

But Peter Kay was awful. The monster was awful. The Doctor relying on the 'faces' twigging and pulling Kay apart was just bad writing - and as a result, it was the first episode where I've missed Chris. I'm not sure he would have even agreed to have starred in such shite, to be honest.

I couldn't watch when her face rose up through the paving slab, and then when the Doctor just randomly spoke some nonsense about being able to retrieve her.. it was just bad TV. Laughable TV. No more, thanks.

[sweetdaddyg]

I just felt oddly sick when I looked at the faces coming up on his body and the face rising up on the slab etc....

really seemed to nauseate me

[Davros sock drawer]

I could see exactly what it was trying to do. It was a romp, just like it was billed, and for the first 20/25 minutes it was rather good. Some really good lines, and some really well crafted scenes with Jackie; she's rather excellent.

But Peter Kay was awful. The monster was awful. The Doctor relying on the 'faces' twigging and pulling Kay apart was just bad writing - and as a result, it was the first episode where I've missed Chris. I'm not sure he would have even agreed to have starred in such shite, to be honest.

I couldn't watch when her face rose up through the paving slab, and then when the Doctor just randomly spoke some nonsense about being able to retrieve her.. it was just bad TV. Laughable TV. No more, thanks.

Sounds like you won't be convinced. It's a shame, I know what it feels like to just sit there thinking "No! What are they doing!?". I just really had a ball watching this, it was laughable, but I was laughing with it.

[jonathanhoey]

I could see exactly what it was trying to do. It was a romp, just like it was billed, and for the first 20/25 minutes it was rather good. Some really good lines, and some really well crafted scenes with Jackie; she's rather excellent.

But Peter Kay was awful. The monster was awful. The Doctor relying on the 'faces' twigging and pulling Kay apart was just bad writing - and as a result, it was the first episode where I've missed Chris. I'm not sure he would have even agreed to have starred in such shite, to be honest.

I couldn't watch when her face rose up through the paving slab, and then when the Doctor just randomly spoke some nonsense about being able to retrieve her.. it was just bad TV. Laughable TV. No more, thanks.

I know I promised not to slag this episode off any more, and I know quoting someone else's entire post can be a bit annoying, but...

Someone buy Boyatsea a pint. That man has his head screwed on. EVERY WORD he just said is completely true.

o/\o, Boyatsea. Bravo.

[Alex W.]

According to Outpost Gallifrey "the audience appreciation index (AI) figure for "Love & Monsters" was reported at 76... a low for the season by tied with the first season's "Rose" and "The End of the World"." Make of that what you will L&M haters...

To be fair, some rugby thing had started that week, or something.

Edit - As for the resolution of the episode, I didn't think it was any worse than the rest of the series. Silly, yes, but that was kind of the point. I don't think that the episode could've gone out on the low note of her having popped her clogs, given the way the rest of it had gone. More CBBC than BBC, but that's fair enough IMO.

[Davros sock drawer]

Someone buy Boyatsea a pint. That man has his head screwed on. EVERY WORD he just said is completely true.

In that case I'd rather be "wrong" but have enjoyed myself.

I certainly feel like the winner here.

[Boyatsea]

I know I promised not to slag this episode off any more, and I know quoting someone else's entire post can be a bit annoying, but...

Someone buy Boyatsea a pint. That man has his head screwed on. EVERY WORD he just said is completely true.

o/\o, Boyatsea. Bravo.

Mines a...

[cassidy]

I couldn't watch when her face rose up through the paving slab, and then when the Doctor just randomly spoke some nonsense about being able to retrieve her.. it was just bad TV. Laughable TV. No more, thanks.

Well I have to be honest but its one of my fave scenes in the episode when David looks up with that manic glint in his eye and half formed grin on his face and states

"Elton, Quick, fetch a spade"

[Boyatsea]

I certainly feel like the winner here.

Heh.

The bottom line is, anymore episodes like that one, and that fourth series will never be confirmed.

[Alex W.]

I couldn't watch when her face rose up through the paving slab, and then when the Doctor just randomly spoke some nonsense about being able to retrieve her.. it was just bad TV. Laughable TV. No more, thanks.

Have you been watching different, scientifically accurate episodes of Doctor Who lately or something? Nearly every time the Doctor solves a problem or invokes the TARDIS, he randomly speaks some nonsense.

[cassidy]

Heh.

The bottom line is, anymore episodes like that one, and that fourth series will never be confirmed.

What an episode that drew over 6 million viewers and even though it was an experiment still achieved an AI of 76. Which whilst not excellent like the previous episodes broadcast is still above what the BBC consider poor and equates to a rating of Good.

[Davros sock drawer]

Heh.

The bottom line is, anymore episodes like that one, and that fourth series will never be confirmed.

You're being paranoid. The series has plenty of scope for unusual episodes. Yes, even ones you don't like.

[Boyatsea]

You're being paranoid. The series has plenty of scope for unusual episodes. Yes, even ones you don't like.

Again, you're missing the point.

It's not the fact that it was unusual - I get that. The video-diary thing, I like it. But you're overlooking the fact that it was really, really poorly written. That's got nothing to do with the episode's context or the fact you consider it different.

My point is, the actual script, plot and dialogue of the last 25 minutes were just really poor.

As an aside, why people are comparing this to Boom Town, I don't know. That was an excellent episode - not rompish in the slighest - and actually the focus for Chris' era, sitting down to tea with someone he's about to sentence to death. Love & Monsters was just pure filler. Rushed, badly written and badly casted filler.

What an episode that drew over 6 million viewers and even though it was an experiment still achieved an AI of 76. Which whilst not excellent like the previous episodes broadcast is still above what the BBC consider poor and equates to a rating of Good.

I'm well aware of what 6 million means - indeed, that's up on the two previous episodes. But if all the episodes in this series were written to the same lacklustre standard, that would be it. People would not watch a series written as badly as Love & Monsters was.