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FishyFish
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Judging by the commentary they (the production team) were very keen for her to come back for the second series.

Do you really think they would say 'oh that actress, she was a right dipshit, gah I can't stand her, I wish we'd written someone else as the prime minister'?

Commentaries that aren't just mutual back-slapping affairs are very rare, you know.

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Yes, I got that she's supposed to be 'endearingly inexperienced'. I just don't think her performance was particularly good.

Yeah, her 'commanding, serious' bit at the end fell a bit flat if I remember correctly. That was something Christopher Eccleston absolutely soared at, making the sci-fi dialogue sound important and vital.

And her line about the president..hurl!

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Do you really think they would say 'oh that actress, she was a right dipshit, gah I can't stand her, I wish we'd written someone else as the prime minister'?

Commentaries that aren't just mutual back-slapping affairs are very rare, you know.

Thanks for explaining that. You'll have to forgive me for being a bit thick.

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Near the end when he puts on the glasses to watch the TV... were they special glasses or something? :D Or did he just need them cos he's got poor eyesight. They looked weird. Well, shit.

dunno.. but it made me laugh.

and it's called "style"

I loved the christmas invasion. I spent the first 30 minutes or so wishing for the doctor to wake up, and when he did... what an entrance. Has there ever been an introduction to a doctor quite like it? My wife and I were chuckling for the entire scene.

Just watching this made me realise just how good a programme the new Doctor Who is. It's so spot on in so many areas... refreshingly British and proud of it. Observant, well acted, humorus and exciting. I just wish it was on all year. I'm looking forward to Torchwood, give us something to watch when the doc isn't about... I want to see how they turn the earth into a huge death star. :)

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Was he kidding when he said there's no gays on primetime US tv?

Eyes. Will and Grace. Buffy. Six Feet Under. Dawsons Creek. Firefly. The L Word. The Simpsons.

That's off the top of my head, and I don't even live in America so there's probably about 20 or 30 more shows to add to that list.

Doctor Who is good and all, but it's not groundbreaking in any way I can think of.

I say again, the likes of Six Feet Under and co. aren't mainstream family viewing. Nothing on HBO is. You cannot compare programmes such as them to a kids show broadcast on the Beeb at 6 on a Saturday night.

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Do you really think they would say 'oh that actress, she was a right dipshit, gah I can't stand her, I wish we'd written someone else as the prime minister'?

Commentaries that aren't just mutual back-slapping affairs are very rare, you know.

I believe she's due to appear again in Doctor Who. If they weren't that keen on her, they didn't have to include her in the Christmas episode, did they?

She's for keeps, I think.

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Whatever it is that makes me love Doctor Who,  Buffy contains none of it.  The comparison is meaningless to me.

Stu's criticisms, while well put are entirely spurious in my eyes.  I have no problem whatsoever accepting the Doctors feelings for Rose.

Much has been said about RTD's stories being 'weaker' than the others but I don't see this at all.  I think Davies has been extremely gracious in giving the juicier, more traditional sci fi stuff to other writers while he's concentrated on the emotional backbone of the show.  His stuff is the glue that holds the whole thing together.  His episodes make the others work better.  The more we know and care about Rose and her family (and I do)  the stronger the sense of danger\excitement works in the plot based stories. 

Moments like the realisation in the first series that they'd been away for 12 months not twelve hours and the massive consequences of that for Rose and her family are what make me love this show so much.    There really is nothing else like it.

Spot on.

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Do you really think they would say 'oh that actress, she was a right dipshit, gah I can't stand her, I wish we'd written someone else as the prime minister'?

Commentaries that aren't just mutual back-slapping affairs are very rare, you know.

The one on Star Trek Generations is very good. Basically Ron Moore stamps all over it, going "Yep that bit's shit, God I wish we hadn't written that" while Brannon Braga (apologist) tries to make excuses.

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This is the thing that really confuses me in this Who/ Buffy argument, because for dialogue and scripting Buffy (around season 3) genuinely pisses all over 2005's Who.

Utter rubbish.

Every British writer I've spoken to wishes they'd written on the new Who. It's an incredible achievement.

Buffy is a nice little show, but not in the same league. Not even close.

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Lets settle this with logic.

You don't have any proof of the above statement, right?

My proof that you're wrong is this: if right-wing Christians had so much say over what shows and storylines are shown in the USA, then why would they allow such popular shows to have such 'offensive' material:

1. CSI is one of the most watched shows in America. It was voted by the Christian Parents Group as the number one most offensive show in the US.

2. ER is hugely popular. One of the main characters is a lesbian. It also has numerous stories about homosexual relationships (and not 'gaysex > AIDS > death = So Don't Be Gay', either). And a story about a homosexual priest with a gay STD has a few-episode arc too.

3. Desperate Housewives. One of the main characters son's is a gay. He was shown kissing a boy in a poll for Gods sake. In the end it was shown that the right-wing Christian mother was wrong, and that her gay son was right.

Game, set, match.

No, because again, you're confusing popular shows with shows aimed at the family. CSI, ER and Desperate Housewives are all dramas aimed at an older audience, and I think might even be on subscription channels.

The original point of the conversation was talking about how, for a family aimed piece, and let me stress that again, a FAMILY AIMED PIECE, Who did things that they just wouldn't get away with in the States. And I still stand by that, however much you and others try to divert my attention away from it.

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With a show like Buffy these factors are rarely an issue (excluding the fuckup that was season six). I would cite the episode Restless as a prime example of how gutsy, clever and heartfelt the show can be. Easily surpassing any of 2005's Who in my opinion.

The problem with Buffy is that it is written like any American-teen show - constantly aware of its audience, and how best it can look contemporary to them. That's why all of them, from Dawson's Creek to The O.C only last for a heartbeat - they are part of a moment, and die when that moment dies. There is nothing lasting about Buffy.

That's the reasons why Doctor Who can, and always will, make nods to the culture that surrounds it at the time. It's part of it's make-up because Doctor Who is a British institution.

In that way, it is a perfect marriage between Doctor Who and RTD, because his scripts are always aware of pop culture, and consistantly make reference to moments or events that we all know of.

The one thing I dislike about the new series of Doctor Who however is the background music. And that so disappoints me, because before Who I would have said Murray Gold was a genius. It's just a little too much. The perfect balance is 'Father's Day' which has long periods of silence, and works very well when the music does build.

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I'm afraid I have to disagree with both of you. I've watched a lot - an awful lot of cult/fantasy TV, and Buffy and Who are just about my favourite shows of all time, ever. IMHO Russell T. Davies and Joss Whedon are both scripting geniuses of the highest order and both shows have been enormously, inescapably influential on the medium. There really isn't any need to place them in competition against each other tbh.

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On paper, I'd agree that an episode like Fathers Day is bold, clever and moving. But I cannot say the same for the finished episode. I guess I'm just not getting it, but it's not for the lack of trying.

Funnily enough I watched Fathers Day on BBC3 earlier and it remains one of my favourite episodes of the series, and if I might add, one of the best presented, paced and directed episodes.

The episode with the Jagrafess was on before and, with retrospect, I thought the space station looked like a cheap set.

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The problem with Buffy is that it is written like any American-teen show - constantly aware of its audience, and how best it can look contemporary to them. That's why all of them, from Dawson's Creek to The O.C only last for a heartbeat - they are part of a moment, and die when that moment dies. There is nothing lasting about Buffy.

...

In that way, it is a perfect marriage between Doctor Who and RTD, because his scripts are always aware of pop culture, and consistantly make reference to moments or events that we all know of.

I've never really been aware of Doctor Who constantly referencing pop culture until this new series. I suspect this is where it has been influenced the most from the new wave of American 'self aware' sci-fi that Buffy spawned.

Any TV show which makes constant pop culture references is not timeless surely? The references themselves are the very things that will date the show. Also, I can't really think of a show with as strong a pop culture awareness as Buffy. The whole thing was born of popular culture (from the title to the content) and became one of the most widely recognised and influential popular culture icons of the last 10 years.

Whether or not Buffy will still be regarded as such thirty years down the line obviously remains to be seen. It's really only long-term Doctor Who fans who say that it is timeless. The old episodes have aged incredibly badly and it's unlikely that a newcomer to them would appreciate them for anything more than comedy value. Obviously it's influence and iconography is very far reaching. More far reaching than Buffy's will ever be.

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You're forgetting something important. It's called 'story'.

I wasn't. I've always thought that the whole idea of Doctor Who was a load better than the actual execution. It's too ambitious. Regardless of how good the story is, the whole thing is still a sum of its parts and many of those parts are a bit rubbish.

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Utter rubbish.

Every British writer I've spoken to wishes they'd written on the new Who. It's an incredible achievement.

Buffy is a nice little show, but not in the same league. Not even close.

Buffy's scripts piss all over Who's at the moment.

When New Who does something as astonishing as "Hush", then we can have this argument again.

Whedon's worth 100 RTDs, easily.

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Haha, yeah. They're INSANE. :)

Everyone knows Buffy is a cheesy teen show about a girl who kills monsters. Why would anyone even watch it, I mean really what's the point? We can all judge it based on the adverts. Buffy meets monster, Buffy kills monster, the end.

Speaking of, Citizen Kane, eh? People say it's got good writing, direction, acting and is generally good. What do they know - it's in black and white for fucks sake! I don't NEED to watch it, I already know it's lame american crap.

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