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42 minutes ago, davidcotton said:

We really are at the equivalent of the 6th Dr era in nu-who aren’t we?

 

It feels to me like Chibnall is trying to do The War Games - a long serialised story that introduces fundamental new back-story to the character of the Doctor and paves the way for a dramatic reboot of the show. Some of the imagery, such as the Sontaran battlefield and the "Dalek sector"/"Cyber sector" are very reminiscent of that story too.

 

Unfortunately he appears to have landed smack bang in the middle of the McCoy era, with the show making a last-ditch effort to improve after several extremely poor years but getting bogged down in unnecessary complexity and appealing only to existing fans.

 

At least we know it's not getting cancelled again - yet - but without RTD swooping back in to save the day I think it would have been a certainty.

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I don't think McCoy's later seasons were that bogged down in complexity or lore. I mean I watched them when I was 7 and understood them fine. The later stuff is pretty modern feeling modern scripts that focus on Ace and is a direct through line to New Who.

 

Leave McCoy out of it, he's great.

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Well, my son and I have watched the first 3 episodes of this and both think it stinks. He absolutely hates it and has done so since end of the timelss child reveal. 

I think it's terrible, but I don't hate it. It's just confusing and stupid. Remember when they did that thing when all the doctors met up and it was cool. Yeah, well now we get to meet up with a previous doctor that no one knew about and she's a bad ass, with a gun and sass. Because we can now meet loads of doctors because there are loads of previous doctors we knew nothing about. 

But any minute now the doctor will stop running around shouting and waving her lady shaver around and recap the plot to someone and explain the next bit of the plot. Then start running around again before bumping into a famous person from history. 

 

I think Whittaker is a great actor, and when she's not running around being badly served by the script, she is superb. Too often though, it looks like a school trip to the yorvik viking centre and everyone is hypeed up on a cocktail of amphetamines and high grade sugar. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Remember when they did that thing when all the doctors met up and it was cool. Yeah, well now we get to meet up with a previous doctor that no one knew about and she's a bad ass, with a gun and sass.

 

 

nomore.jpg

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3 hours ago, Pete said:

I stopped watching the Whittaker run after several episodes, can I just go into this latest series cold?

 

Not this time. As a minimum, you'll need to watch "Fugitive of the Judoon" (series 12 episode 5) that introduces a major character. It's  also useful to watch "Ascension of the Cybermen" (series 12 ep09) and "The Timeless Child" (series 12 ep 10) which introduces new backstory.

 

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Slowly catching up with this. Watched the first episode last night.

 

First 5 mins, oh no, a wacky situation.

 

Rest - WTF is going on (in a good way). Relentless and loved the musical score at the end.

 

Enjoyed it loads. Be nice for it to take a breather for 30 seconds though!

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12 minutes ago, Bluejam said:

Slowly catching up with this. Watched the first episode last night.

 

First 5 mins, oh no, a wacky situation.

 

Rest - WTF is going on (in a good way). Relentless and loved the musical score at the end.

 

Enjoyed it loads. Be nice for it to take a breather for 30 seconds though!

Ep2 slowed it down a bit Ep3 much the same as Ep1. It really needs to slow down. 

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On 19/11/2021 at 21:54, Exidor said:

 

 

nomore.jpg

 

Ah, yes. This is the episode where Doctor Who experimented with corporate sponsorship:

 

Companion: 'Ere, doctor. 'Ow do I put up this shelf?

 

Doctor: I've got something that can do that.

 

Companion: Wha's dat? I thought the sonic screwdriver couldn't do this type of fing?

 

Doctor: It's my No More Nails gun. Available from all good retailers for just 19.99 union credits.

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I wasn't looking forward to this one. Seemed like it was going to be a bog standard base under siege with an enemy that has long overstayed it's welcome. In fact it was very, very good and added much needed extra depth to the Angels while propelling the plot along at a good clip.

 

It's obvious that Chibs has decided to go out with a bang and is writing his own Virgin NA epic. I heartly approve of this decision.

 

 

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What I really liked about this episode is that Whittaker finally got the time and space to be The Doctor and she was great at it! In the previous series's I felt that she was somewhat relegated to an equal member of an ensemble cast, and breakneck pace of the first three episodes of Flux didn't give her time to do much more than react to events.

 

Here she really got a rare chance to bring that mixture of compassion, playfulness, wisdom and resolve that you associate with the character.

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4 hours ago, loathsomeleopard said:

There's still a lot that will hinge on those last two episodes, but I did enjoy that. Expanded thoughts here.

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

Spoiler

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

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1 hour ago, c-cat114 said:

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

  Hide contents

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

The train landing kind of works thanks to the Doctor Who hand wavey just regenerated so sort of invincible thing. If Ten can grow himself a new hand then Thirteen could probably survive a fall.

 

But yes, Flux really needs a good payoff or it will all feel really unsatisfying. It can't just keep asking questions forever.

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Regarding payoff (after 2 episodes in)

 

Spoiler

It's obviously not all the story is this going to be an origin for the weeping angels?

They can now make more Angels, we've seen the Mouri/Temple of Antorus etc as potential origins.

 

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20 hours ago, Mogster said:

The train landing kind of works thanks to the Doctor Who hand wavey just regenerated so sort of invincible thing. If Ten can grow himself a new hand then Thirteen could probably survive a fall.

 

But yes, Flux really needs a good payoff or it will all feel really unsatisfying. It can't just keep asking questions forever.

 

It's that old-school 90s arcade beat-em-up thing where you lose a life and your character flashes for a couple of seconds when they come back on screen to show they're temporarily invincible. 

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22 hours ago, c-cat114 said:

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

 

Or oh nows the Nexus from Star Trel generations is rushing towards us and it destroys things at a subatomic level (or just knocks some building over a bit - depends on the planet)  and the Tardis doors won't shut... lol we survived that and are in the Crimean War for some reason.

 

The current fan theory du jour is that inspid spaceman and spacewoman's baby is going to be the Doctor who has magic regeneration powers for Flux related REASONS and then gets sent back in time to be found by the not yet-Time Lords in a loop. It sounds horribly plausible and the sort of thing Chibnall might do.

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On 22/11/2021 at 13:41, c-cat114 said:

Interesting thoughts plus enjoyed the comments :)

 

But I've no idea why so many people are team Bel. Literally no idea whatsoever. She seems as pantomime bubble depth as most of the characters in Chib era (with the exception of Jericho who I liked a lot). She's not far off Ace in terms of character, dual wields pistols like a five year old with their first nerf guns, spun across the floor with the grace of Starsky over a bonnet and, oh, is she pregnant? That bits so subtly done I hadn't noticed.

 

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it. 

 

See also: I've seen a LOT of people say the cliffhanger is awesome

  Hide contents

(my first thought was 'if the angels said she's been recalled and any species could be from the division why did they turn her into an angel'? 

But a cliffhanger imo HAS to be viewed alongside the resolution. I'm happy to be proven wrong but that's one of Chibs biggest weaknesses. Anyone can write 'the Doctor falls from the sky out of an exploding Tardis' but only an idiot writes 'and lands safe and sound on a nice, comfy, metal train...' 

 

Im still waiting for an explanation from Flux 1 where the Flux engulfs the TARDIS….and they end up in the Crimea.

 

18 hours ago, Harsin said:

 

Or oh nows the Nexus from Star Trel generations is rushing towards us and it destroys things at a subatomic level (or just knocks some building over a bit - depends on the planet)  and the Tardis doors won't shut... lol we survived that and are in the Crimean War for some reason.

 

The current fan theory du jour is that inspid spaceman and spacewoman's baby is going to be the Doctor who has magic regeneration powers for Flux related REASONS and then gets sent back in time to be found by the not yet-Time Lords in a loop. It sounds horribly plausible and the sort of thing Chibnall might do.

 

I caught up tonight while not able to sleep and came to ask about that idea. The central ‘theme’ of this seems to be Space vs Time. With each getting broken at different points (although sometimes the flux just hurts bits of space rather than unravel it)

 

A child born in ‘broken’ time could be ‘Timeless’

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On 22/11/2021 at 13:41, c-cat114 said:

Flux as a series is... Okish to me. But some aspects (pacing, Bel, Swarm and Azure design, script) are getting a lot of love online and I just totally don't get it.

 

The serialisation does it a lot of favours, I think. It lifts the weaker parts by at least suggesting they are a part of something bigger.

 

The frustrating thing about Chibnall's era is that he's had some really great moments. His version of The Master was great (and had a superb reveal). Tim Shaw was a cracking joke and a genuinely creepy new alien design. The historicals (Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, the Tesla one) were good. Fugitive of the Judoon is a modern classic.

 

But it's always been weighed down by loads and loads of shit. One good episode followed by three or four utterly uninspired standalone episodes with CBeebies production values and no idea of how to write the Doctor as a character.

 

Flux - being relatively short, and absolutely crammed with stuff - is bouncing from good bit to good bit so fast that you don't have time to really notice that maybe the connective tissue isn't as good as it should be. Even when it doesn't make sense, it promises the possibility of it all meaning something more.

 

It's all going to depend on how they stick the landing. If it's satisfyingly done, this will go down as one of the best Who seasons of recent years. If they fuck it up, it'll make everything we've watched so far seem pointless in retrospect.

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