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59 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Although i would say Walsh is the only one to have a story arc, with the death of his wife and eventually facing the killer. Also he wanted acceptance from Graham which he got at the end.

 

Ryan.

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15 hours ago, Hexx said:

A reviewer pointed out something I hadn't really thought of.

 

Describe to me Yaz/Graham's relationship?

 

Nah I couldn't give an opinion either...that's pretty poor after a series of adventures.

 

 

I think that's been one of the biggest failures of the season. Chibnall stated at the start that he wanted a more diverse Tardis, but then failed Ryan and Yaz (especially) in the writing.

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I've enjoyed most of the episodes this series when I've watched them - some of them have been a bit rubbish.

 

In general, the programme doesn't feel particularly special anymore.  I can take it or leave it... it's just a programme and not something that I go out of my way to make sure I watch live.  It's no longer event TV.  Hasn't been for a few series' now and not unique to the most recent one.

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Tldr: series end was as bad as series.

 

Just caught up with the final ep. 

 

Almost a good one. Almost. Bar for the fact that so much of it was knuckle bitungly stupid. Still cannot see how or why Walsh gets so many positive comments. He is such a one note actor that squinting when he says he's going to kill someone comes off as finally a new facial expression. The rest of Team Tardis is similarly bad/boring, just no one mentions them for the most part except for the diversity bullet points. My daughters boyfriend has dyspraxia and is, daily, a clumsy oaf (which is only partially down to the dysoraxia sigh). To see how little it affects Ryan until there's a ladder is.. Well... Maybe they should have had a Dalek for an assistant. 

 

Whittaker is OK, can think of a hundred female actors who would take the role and made it their own. She's just an accent and a lack of ideas most of the time. A vessel for exposition more than a story driver. When there's the opportunity to do some soul searching it's always glossed over with a sentence. 

 

Chibnall's writing has had the occasional glimmer of a good idea mired by a complete inability to tell a story which would bear anything more than a cursory investigation. When characters talk to each other they're generally both facing stage front. It's so hammy, talky. Ugh. 

 

With the exception of the music every aspect of the show is far less good than prior series, even at their worst. I assume there will be one hell of a post mortem at the BBC to see why the social sentiment is.... At best divided... They will be used to bad reviews I'm sure but any glance at the replies to official Dr Who tweets is almost universally dismissive of the scripts. 

 

In many ways it's a shame - this should have been a bold new era and instead it gives ammo to the anti female Dr crowd (although tbh I don't think Whittaker is that good an actor but it's a her thing rather than a female thing. Missy was brilliant for example). But as soon as Chibnall was installed as a writer I should have gone to a bookies and placed a bet on how bad the series would be. Wasn't rocket science. 

 

Ugh. Such a shame. Can't wait for the negativity on Twitter when the 'ultimate bad guy' buried under the planet turns out to be CyberWoman rather than a Dalek :)

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On 12/12/2018 at 09:19, c-cat114 said:

Tldr: series end was as bad as series.

 

Just caught up with the final ep. 

 

Almost a good one. Almost. Bar for the fact that so much of it was knuckle bitungly stupid. Still cannot see how or why Walsh gets so many positive comments. He is such a one note actor that squinting when he says he's going to kill someone comes off as finally a new facial expression. The rest of Team Tardis is similarly bad/boring, just no one mentions them for the most part except for the diversity bullet points. My daughters boyfriend has dyspraxia and is, daily, a clumsy oaf (which is only partially down to the dysoraxia sigh). To see how little it affects Ryan until there's a ladder is.. Well... Maybe they should have had a Dalek for an assistant. 

 

Whittaker is OK, can think of a hundred female actors who would take the role and made it their own. She's just an accent and a lack of ideas most of the time. A vessel for exposition more than a story driver. When there's the opportunity to do some soul searching it's always glossed over with a sentence. 

 

Chibnall's writing has had the occasional glimmer of a good idea mired by a complete inability to tell a story which would bear anything more than a cursory investigation. When characters talk to each other they're generally both facing stage front. It's so hammy, talky. Ugh. 

 

With the exception of the music every aspect of the show is far less good than prior series, even at their worst. I assume there will be one hell of a post mortem at the BBC to see why the social sentiment is.... At best divided... They will be used to bad reviews I'm sure but any glance at the replies to official Dr Who tweets is almost universally dismissive of the scripts. 

 

In many ways it's a shame - this should have been a bold new era and instead it gives ammo to the anti female Dr crowd (although tbh I don't think Whittaker is that good an actor but it's a her thing rather than a female thing. Missy was brilliant for example). But as soon as Chibnall was installed as a writer I should have gone to a bookies and placed a bet on how bad the series would be. Wasn't rocket science. 

 

Ugh. Such a shame. Can't wait for the negativity on Twitter when the 'ultimate bad guy' buried under the planet turns out to be CyberWoman rather than a Dalek :)

 

Fucking hell. You live on planet wrong.

 

This has been the best series of New Who in some years.

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Last episode really was the weakest. You can see some neat ideas sprinkled in (aliens that can fiddle about with space are definitely going to come back at some point to ex machina something else) but it's definitely the first time I cringed at the companions. They shouldn't be there just for comedy, at the finale no less  Bah

 

Mr Dentist also talked too much. There's other ways of showing menacing than just that, walking a bit and then getting shot in the foot, man.

 

Alternate Universe Kermit is the better season finale by a million miles, and it has the same exact companion story beats, just does it a lot better.

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9 hours ago, Davros sock drawer said:

 

Fucking hell. You live on planet wrong.

 

This has been the best series of New Who in some years.

 

Occasionally I worry that I've become a huge grump and can't enjoy things that are good without just wanting to pile in and criticise the smallest things. Or I wish I could just find enjoyment in new Dr Who and The Last Jedi and similar. 

 

Then along come things like Infinity War and Isle of Dogs and Legion and Coco (or even last series of Dr Who which despite peaks and troughs I mostly loved) and so on and I think no, there's enjoyment to be had :)

 

This latest Who series was abject crap that said. I'm glad you enjoyed it but, on a technical, aesthetic, narrative, acted and created level it was sub par/improvable in every way. There were some aspects that weren't too bad and, from an externalising viewpoint I can see why some could see a female Dr as hugely exciting. But really - the series has been crap and I suspect wont survive the passage of time. 

 

What I can't understand, and occasionally I dwell on it, is the motivations or expectations of people who did like this series or Prometheus or Last Jedi or similar. That completely bewilders me. 

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16 hours ago, c-cat114 said:

 

Occasionally I worry that I've become a huge grump and can't enjoy things that are good without just wanting to pile in and criticise the smallest things. Or I wish I could just find enjoyment in new Dr Who and The Last Jedi and similar. 

 

Then along come things like Infinity War and Isle of Dogs and Legion and Coco (or even last series of Dr Who which despite peaks and troughs I mostly loved) and so on and I think no, there's enjoyment to be had :)

 

This latest Who series was abject crap that said. I'm glad you enjoyed it but, on a technical, aesthetic, narrative, acted and created level it was sub par/improvable in every way. There were some aspects that weren't too bad and, from an externalising viewpoint I can see why some could see a female Dr as hugely exciting. But really - the series has been crap and I suspect wont survive the passage of time. 

 

What I can't understand, and occasionally I dwell on it, is the motivations or expectations of people who did like this series or Prometheus or Last Jedi or similar. That completely bewilders me. 

 

 

'Motivations' - Ha! I love that. No, no, there can't possibly be any merit in this, you must have motivations for liking it. :rolleyes:

 

I just think it's been fab. Great, succinct story-telling, a welcome lack of the half-arsed story "arcs" which were really no such thing, some very small stakes (always hated it when the entire universe was at stake each week), and most importantly of all some extremely moving and well wrought interactions between the supporting cast, which really does comprise the best Tardis crew ever. 

 

It stumbled once, and once only IMO, otherwise I've enjoyed every minute. And enjoyment is actually my only motivation, thank you very much.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Davros sock drawer said:

....most importantly of all some extremely moving and well wrought interactions between the supporting cast, which really does comprise the best Tardis crew ever. 

 

This I don't get. 9th/Rose, 11th/Amy/Rory and 12th/Bill/Nardole/Missy have all been great and I place them above the current crew.

 

Yaz and Ryan don't really have much to do and feel like spare parts, and that's mostly because Graham increasingly appears to be Chibnall's Marty Stu fantasy about travelling with the doctor.

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Yeah in retrospect motivation was the wrong word (although tbh I think some viewers are allowing the, at best variable, quality a pass because they want the content to succeed no matter the quality of it, plus I'd been teaching inteinsic and extrinsic through the day so was in my mind). 

 

Rationale would be a better word for it. I'm all for differences in taste and that's totally fine. Some people will like something and others not. But when something has a quantifiable lowering of quality/capability or when a story has that many plot holes and lack of drive I just totally don't get it. if the series had starred Capaldi people would be slamming the stage school cbeebies delivery/lack of plot/lack of decent antagonists/plank based protagonists etc. Last Jedi was a better example in ways as it was so horribly devisive, which I think this will be seen as in the future too. 

 

I'd far preferred to have liked the series. I still don't think I'd have liked Whittaker and Walsh but I didn't like Martha or Rose but gave them as little thought as I could and enjoyed the bits I liked. This series had low levels of competence written all over it and it staggers me that it has its champions as much as it has. That a moderate percentage of people hail Graham as one of best bits blows my mind. 

 

Anyhow no, I don't see it as the best series for years :) it's Who's TLJ moment. Divisive, easily ridiculed, awful script and damages the brand. 

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28 minutes ago, c-cat114 said:

Yeah in retrospect motivation was the wrong word (although tbh I think some viewers are allowing the, at best variable, quality a pass because they want the content to succeed no matter the quality of it, plus I'd been teaching inteinsic and extrinsic through the day so was in my mind). 

 

Rationale would be a better word for it. I'm all for differences in taste and that's totally fine. Some people will like something and others not. But when something has a quantifiable lowering of quality/capability or when a story has that many plot holes and lack of drive I just totally don't get it. if the series had starred Capaldi people would be slamming the stage school cbeebies delivery/lack of plot/lack of decent antagonists/plank based protagonists etc. Last Jedi was a better example in ways as it was so horribly devisive, which I think this will be seen as in the future too. 

 

I'd far preferred to have liked the series. I still don't think I'd have liked Whittaker and Walsh but I didn't like Martha or Rose but gave them as little thought as I could and enjoyed the bits I liked. This series had low levels of competence written all over it and it staggers me that it has its champions as much as it has. That a moderate percentage of people hail Graham as one of best bits blows my mind. 

 

Anyhow no, I don't see it as the best series for years :) it's Who's TLJ moment. Divisive, easily ridiculed, awful script and damages the brand. 

 

As the C.Baker years and S.Mccoy years have proved it's that the show will bounce back if needed.  Just need to wait until either a)the current doctor leaves and b) the head writer leaves.  When Jodie goes I wonder if they'll go with another lady or go back to fellers.

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I wouldn't be surprised if 

both Whittaker and Chibnall leave at the end of the next series.... But of course that depends on how well the new year's and following series are judged. It's a year of negativity though, I suspect... And I can't imagine the BBC won't be watching the comments. There'll be a bit of public entrenchment and support and all sorts of background shenanigans I'm guessing. 

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It has a lot of "first season of a new show" problems, presumably from the amount of changes that it went through, but it's set viewer records for the programme and it's critically highly regarded so I can't imagine the BBC's going to be too cut up about a mixed response from the fanbase. They're going to give it a shot.

 

It'll be interesting in particular to see how Chibnall comes around to the demands of an episodic show, where you don't have a consistent background cast. A recurring villain would probably serve him well. Or they could finally say, fuck it, we're doing a single 8-episode serial, which seems so perfect for the director. It's the box-set era, the BBC could get away with it.

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2 hours ago, davidcotton said:

 

As the C.Baker years and S.Mccoy years have proved it's that the show will bounce back if needed.  Just need to wait until either a)the current doctor leaves and b) the head writer leaves.  When Jodie goes I wonder if they'll go with another lady or go back to fellers.

 

I'm not sure the mid to late 80s show that Doctor Who will "bounce back" given it disappeared off the screens for 15 years. We take the reboots success for granted, but it was by no means a sure thing. Moffat's era ran more to my tastes but there's no doubt the RTD did a magnificent job on a more difficult brief.

 

Unless you mean McCoys last two series were excellent and get a lot of undeserved flack?

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51 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

It has a lot of "first season of a new show" problems, presumably from the amount of changes that it went through, but it's set viewer records for the programme and it's critically highly regarded so I can't imagine the BBC's going to be too cut up about a mixed response from the fanbase. They're going to give it a shot.

 

It'll be interesting in particular to see how Chibnall comes around to the demands of an episodic show, where you don't have a consistent background cast. A recurring villain would probably serve him well. Or they could finally say, fuck it, we're doing a single 8-episode serial, which seems so perfect for the director. It's the box-set era, the BBC could get away with it.

Oh they'll definitely be happy enough with the viewing figures which were surprisingly strong throughout. I was anticipating a bit more of a drop off from the mid point on so that's one strength they'll see. However they'll calculate that against the social commentary and Im guessing they're going to be worrying about the year on year drop off and that'll affect the planning for next year from now on in. 

 

One thing I'm wondering if will have an impact (and I'm intrigued to know sales figures on) is the merch. Will be interesting to see how that holds up and if that factors into behind the scenes discussions. 

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7 hours ago, davidcotton said:

When Jodie goes I wonder if they'll go with another lady or go back to fellers.


I'd bet good money that there will be at least one, or possible two women in the role before it is played by a man again. The BBC will want to show that the casting of a female Doctor isn't just a one-off, but part of a consistent strategy. It's likely there will be less resistance to a female Doctor the next time as well.

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I think they should go for it and make the next Doctor a black disabled lesbian Muslim single parent, who dresses like a health & safety inspector and has a Sonic Clipboard. Just to troll the Daily Mail really.

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1 minute ago, Darren said:

I think they should go for it and make the next Doctor a black disabled lesbian Muslim single parent, who dresses like a health & safety inspector and has a Sonic Clipboard. Just to troll the Daily Mail really.

 

Who has the same costume as Snoke.

 

To piss off TLJ haters.

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28 minutes ago, Made of Ghosts said:

What are we saying now? I don’t feel like “of colour” has completely caught on in this country. 

 

whatever you feel comfortable saying, but not "nonwhite", please

 

https://www.google.com/search?q="non+white"+signs&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXiIKhmazfAhUMaFAKHbZ5BUIQ_AUIDigB&biw=1920&bih=1009

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