Doctor Who

[Not Thread Owner]

He didn't erase himself from the memories of the Daleks - Claradalek did.

[Lorfarius]

I was thinking that the other day, it was such a big deal in the universe everyone knowing who he was so off they went to press the reset button and...... not long after it's like it never happened. Everyone knows once again.

I just wish they'd left her in there unable to escape, might have made for more interesting revenge stories where she's gone completely evil later on down the line. I suspect what we will get is Danny Pink back again.

[Lorfarius]

Wait a minute.... where did Missy get that rope?

[Harsin]

My favourite bit was where Clara was meant to be terrified and upset that her best friend might kill her and Jenna Coleman's Mustard really stretched her acting abilities and expressed this by doing a half-smirk.

[jonamok]

The thing I'm genuinely most impressed about is how Moffat has created two real-life parallel universes. In one, these last two episodes have been, well, a bit poo. The other Universe is functionally identical bar this being a cracking two-parter and a solid 8/10.

He should join DARPA or SHIELD or something, his talents are wasted on TV.

[Harsin]

Jonamok discovers the concept of subjectivity. Next week is introduced to death of the author and has to go for a lie down for a bit.

[kensei]

Am I ever sick of characters constantly wanking on about how amazing and legendary and the most special and powerful being in the universe the Doctor is, also him announcing his name with supreme importance like he's fucking Batman.

Looks like Moffat is going to try and make up some epic mythic bollocks about why he left Gallifrey now. I liked him just doing a runner because he was bored, it was nicely small scale and somehow uniquely British. Now everything has to be bombastic and a BIG DEAL (just don't expect actual repercussions though - remember when the Doctor erased himself from all databases because he'd become too big a deal or when he erased all memories of him from the Daleks who suddenly worked like the Borg for one episode - the showrunners don't seem to).

I actually quite enjoyed the opening episodes - the first was a bit slow but Missy lights up the screen. Davros and the Doctor basically playing chess with each other was decent. None of the twists were really unguessable or anywhere near the top New Who scale of nonsense. 7/10.

But the MEGA IMPORTANT retcons annoy the crap out of me as well. Bored was never really the original intention as far as I remember, the space hobo idea came in with Troughton. But I'd still prefer it to be relatively mundane. The Doctor appeared with his granddaughter, I always thought the most logical thing was something to do with his family. And they should avoid going there as much as possible.

[HarMGM]

Retcons and continuity are always secondary in Doctor Who though. RTD introduced loads of ideas in his first four series that then got outright ereased in the first series Moffat wrote. The same will happen to all of the stuff Moffat's done to the show's canon.(leaving aside the fact that Doctor Who doesn't actually have a canon and uses continuity as sort of a make-shift sandbox anyway).

[Dimahoo]

Nice to see War Dalek again. Sad to see it did Sweet FA.

[kensei]

Retcons and continuity are always secondary in Doctor Who though. RTD introduced loads of ideas in his first four series that then got outright ereased in the first series Moffat wrote. The same will happen to all of the stuff Moffat's done to the show's canon.(leaving aside the fact that Doctor Who doesn't actually have a canon and uses continuity as sort of a make-shift sandbox anyway).

To an extent. Some of it always embeds and the more explicit it is, the harder it is to get round. And just the idea of a Dalek-Timelord hybrid. Ugh.

They threatened to defang the Daleks a bit twice in Smith's run but never had the balls to follow it through. I wish they would. It's at the point where the Daleks don't actually *do* anything. I liked this story, but it was about Davros and the Doctor facing off rather than the Daleks. You couldn't have a story entitled "The Dalek's Master Plan" now. They just scream exterminate and blow up planets because that's what they do because they are evil and deadly and evil.

[HarMGM]

To an extent? We're talking about a show in which the secret origin of the character was at one point mentioned and made into the entire hook of a Dalek story(Remembrance of the Daleks to be exact) and then got promptly forgotten about and never mentioned again. The show's littered with this sort of stuff through the years.

In theory, the Time-Lord background could actually get ereased and forgotten about considering it's a part of the show that didn't get added until six years after the programs debut. And even then the nature of the Time-Lords changed quite a bit as well. That's how show has approached this sort of thing in both the old and new series anyway.

The only bits of Who that actually need to adhered are the Doctor, the companion and the Daleks. That's about it.

[Camel]

Erased.

[Harsin]

The biggest revelation was that Davros didn't have burnt out eye sockets necessitating an electronic eye, he had just been keeping his eyes closed for years for lols or something.

[Space Renegade Ulala]

They need to have Michelle Gomez stick around permanently, she is magnificent and can just about make up for everything else.

[Professor Puzzles]

She's brilliant but I find it difficult to understand what she's saying sometimes thanks to the obtrusive score and her constantly-changing accents. I know she's doing it on purpose to be all crazy but sometimes she'll be halfway through a line before I figure out whether she's doing a Glasgow or doing the Wicked Witch of the West.

[SeanR]

Who omnibus at 1515 today.

So the end of episode one makes even less sense, going into e2.

[BitterToad]

Yeah I'm in the no camp. Its just all so inconsequential. It always has been to a point but I feel like the longer Moffat's in the chair the less clever the timey wimey ending bits get. People are just literally explaining things as they happen and then we move on. There's not really any foreshadowing because it's not needed, the doctor's character means he explains everything anyway as it happens and then we're just left where we're started. With a few characterless meme generators walking around saying things are "cool" and grabbing tanks and Davros' chair and bloody sodding sunglasses.

Maybe I'm too old for it now? Maybe I'm bored of the format? Maybe it's the same as it's always been but after really enjoying everything up until the finale last year I'm not sure that's the case. When it's at its best Doctor Who can still be a cracking watch, but with Moffat as a showrunner it's really not doing it for me any more.

[NEG]

Nah, never liked Moffat's arcs and stories in general. There's been a few good episodes (probably from other writers without having to go back and look at who wrote what) but in general (and despite all the complaints this same forum had at the time) RTD was so much more above this style of writing.

This was one of Moffat's better stories I'd say but it was still all complete nonsense with no meaning to it whatsoever. The arc already sounds rubbish (and like I've mentioned previously - overdone, we've done death so many times now, even in Moffat's time as writer).

How did this same writer write the Are you my mummy, mademe de pomp and of course the original Blink I do not know.

It's very much for the tweens these days. Think less enjoy the ride mentality, and that's fine to have occasionally but not ALL the damn time. It's been like this since 11th Hour.

I'm the Doctor and I can call the TARDIS with my glasses.

:: inspector gadget theme ::

Davros: Can I get a hug yet?

[El Pibe]

It's on really late now, as well. Half eight next week! I guess that's fine as you can watch on iplayer but I worry it might lose the younger audience because of it.

[Not Thread Owner]

It's pretty inconsequential when it's on. Don't 75% of people watch it on some sort of time shift or catchup these days?

[Captain Novaforce]

I like Capaldi and Missy, but agree I'm just a bit tired of Moffats style now. The return to two parters is very welcome, and I did think this got better towards the end... But I think this is missing something for me.

[Flub]

Am I ever sick of characters constantly wanking on about how amazing and legendary and the most special and powerful being in the universe the Doctor is, also him announcing his name with supreme importance like he's fucking Batman.

Looks like Moffat is going to try and make up some epic mythic bollocks about why he left Gallifrey now. I liked him just doing a runner because he was bored, it was nicely small scale and somehow uniquely British. Now everything has to be bombastic and a BIG DEAL (just don't expect actual repercussions though - remember when the Doctor erased himself from all databases because he'd become too big a deal or when he erased all memories of him from the Daleks who suddenly worked like the Borg for one episode - the showrunners don't seem to).

To be fair it's already established that the Doctor is more than just a bored timelord. He stole the Hand of Omega as he legged it (We don`t know why) and also was heavily involved in the original kerfluffle around Silver Nemesis. He`s anything but a regular timelord.

[Hexx]

The problem I find with Moffat is that for his stories everything tends to be important 'reveals;. New understanding. Redefining characters in "shocking" ways. Everything is always so big and important.

It's just tiresome. We're now at the Doctor approaching death (again), the soon to be reveal of his biggest secret (again) and the possible complete changing of his origin (already toyed with with the Doctor's name being revealed/defined a promise).

He barely seems happy just to tell good stories with the characters (like, say, Blink).

Occasional he'll combine both (e.g. Listen) but more often then not it's just another week and another.

I'm also getting slightly fed up with the "just go with it" nature of lots of his storylines/beats - particular when there's no resolution to previous events or they're just completely ignored (lampshaded in this with the cup of Tea. "I'm the Doctor. Just go with it"). Or where things just come out of no where because the plot needs them (The Doctor can now "shake out" some regeneration energy to give to people? wtf?)

But it gets me because there's always a moment or two I love. The stone bit in this, or Doctor/Davros conversation (sullied because it was a ruse and also we'd been told it was a ruse before hand - but still good. I could have watched the entire show just the two old enemies talking at the end of one of their lives)

[Darren]

Oh well, so much for my theory

[Ste_S]

Who would take over if Moffat did pack it in ?

Mark Gatiss is too intertwined with Moffat. Toby Whithouse has experience as a show runner, but his episdoes have been mostly 'ok'ish (God Complex excepted).

[Mr Cochese]

Get Charlie Brooker on it. The last episode could be a compendium of scenes from throughout the series.

[Harsin]

To be fair it's already established that the Doctor is more than just a bored timelord. He stole the Hand of Omega as he legged it (We don`t know why) and also was heavily involved in the original kerfluffle around Silver Nemesis. He`s anything but a regular timelord.

That was all that Cartmel Masterplan bollocks that everyone was glad was consigned to the dustbin of history. Frankly we were lucky it was cancelled before he got the chance to put Looms on the small screen and not just a ropey novel.

[Flub]

What the Cartmel plan was going to be doesn't matter. The latest story confirms Remembrance happened so we have a Doctor who upon leaving Gallifrey stole *the* stellar manipulator. Not a random one off the shelf but the original one owned by Omega and used to create the Eye of Harmony and then later decided to use it to trick Stavros into destroying his kebab shop.

Book stuff I agree you can happily ignore but if the current showrunner decides to pick up a thread from the TV show it`s as valid as it gets.

Of course Moffat will probably fluff the landing like he always does

(NB. I never liked the Looms either)

[Death's Head]

According to Cartmel himself the so-called 'masterplan' was more a vague idea of injecting a bit of mystery back into the Doctor's character, rather than anything specific. He can't have been all that keen on the idea of looms himself - Ghost Light by Marc Platt was originally going to be Lungbarrow until Cartmel asked him to rewrite it.

[Comrade]

Yeah I'm in the no camp. Its just all so inconsequential. It always has been to a point but I feel like the longer Moffat's in the chair the less clever the timey wimey ending bits get. People are just literally explaining things as they happen and then we move on. There's not really any foreshadowing because it's not needed, the doctor's character means he explains everything anyway as it happens and then we're just left where we're started. With a few characterless meme generators walking around saying things are "cool" and grabbing tanks and Davros' chair and bloody sodding sunglasses.

Maybe I'm too old for it now? Maybe I'm bored of the format? Maybe it's the same as it's always been but after really enjoying everything up until the finale last year I'm not sure that's the case. When it's at its best Doctor Who can still be a cracking watch, but with Moffat as a showrunner it's really not doing it for me any more.

If you want consequence, I recommend you stop watching Doctor Who. It's a show so antithetical to consequence that 50 years ago when the lead actor wanted to leave they used space magic to turn him into a different actor. No one truly dies in Who, anyone can be brought back. The Doctor will never finally defeat the Daleks, and the Daleks (or anyone else) will never finally kill the Doctor.

Doctor Who is the opposite of consequence, and it's a nature of the franchise that has been baked into the programme's DNA from almost the very beginning.