Doctor Who

[AK Bell]

I watched Rose again recently. While it's not the best episode, the potential for fun and greatness is there. It's rough around the edges, and has no where near the production value it has now, but it all works. It's easily my favourite series.

We only know in hindsight that it didn't hit it's full potential.

The Eccleston series is really strong. You can forgive the small McGuffins because everything else is so strongly written with the characters and worlds. It obeys the main rule for Doctor Who for me ... that characters will die, but they'll be better people for it. It's only right at the very end of the series that the awful fate of the series becomes set in stone with big McGuffins, plot whims and resets that start to pepper all episodes following.

[Madness]

I really, really liked Rose when I first saw it. I'd seen Christopher Eccleston on Jonathon Ross before it aired and they showed the scene where Nine talks about how he can feel the Earth moving and a clip from Dalek and I knew I had to watch this show. I'd never seen Doctor Who before; all I knew about it were the Daleks and that the Doctor travelled through time in something called a "police box" which was like a phone box but different.

So I tuned in and Rose was a pretty perfect introduction for the series for 12-year-old me. I watched Confidential afterwards and they showed loads of clips from classic Who and talked about the history of the show and I was hooked from then on.

Looking back on it now, Rose is visually quite dated now compared to the more muted, HD look the show has now. and the plot itself barely hangs together at times. The comedy moments fall a bit flat (wheely bin, auton Mickey) but none of that really matters because it's full of great, distinctive moments. The Doctor telling Rose to run. The "Earth moving under our feet" monologue. Rose and the Doctor running down Tower Bridge. The Autons smashing out of the shop windows. It's actually bloody brilliant.

The whole of series 1 is probably the perfect re-invention of the series. I just wish they'd had the budget to have Eccleston's Doctor leave Earth once in a while.I think it helped that I was young when I first watched it - if the Slitheen were introduced today I'd probably have the same pathological hate for them as most other people do, but actually I thought that episode was bloody great, and the creature design is brilliant. Those zips in the head!

I think the thing that the series is missing most of all now is that focus RTD had during the first series. He really didn't want to have it too bogged down in continuity and was almost obsessed with the idea of casual viewers being able to tune in if they'd missed an episode without worrying about it not making sense (with the obvious exception of the two parters). One of the main complaints I hear is that the show is too hard to follow now because it's too bogged down in its own continuity and I kind of agree. Doctor Who doesn't really need arcs: The Doctor doesn't need to die in the first episode for us to unravel the mystery of how it happened over a whole series. While the "arc" episodes are some of my favourites of the Moffat Era (Good Man Goes to War is easily in my top 5 episodes) they really do put people off.

...that turned into a bit of an essay. Sorry everyone!

[kensei]

Man posting on Doctor Who thread on video games forum at half past twelve at night tells others to "get out more".

It's really sad that an attempt at thoughtful criticism of the show is straight away met with a dismissive NEEEEEERDS response and if you don't like it don't watch it (which I always see as the bedfellow of "Just turn your brain off!" as a reductive attempt to stop critical discussion). Reading those articles it's pretty clear that they do like Doctor Who, they just don't like some elements of it, which is inevitable with a show that has been running for 50 years.

Oh zing! No wait, I don't actually give a flying fuck.

They don't like Doctor Who. They like what Doctor Who used to be. There are occasionally interesting points, but it's judging the show against something it stopped trying to be. And in large part they are vastly over thinking things. There is a full on debate in some of the comments on what the First Doctor meant when he said you can't change a line of history. You can't rationalise it and the show never tried.

By the latest set of reviews they are staying they are just doing it to vent after. Just stop watching it, improve happiness. And if the enjoyment is out of ripping it up NEERRDDS is entirely justified.

Now excuse me, I need to go outside for a bit.

[Mogster]

Yay! Welcome back, Spriteblog.

It was Dalek that really hooked me on Doctor Who and Rose is never going to be in my top ten, but I do like it and have developed a lot of respect for what it achieved. Like Sprite said, in the space of fourty-five minutes it had to introduce a character and concept to a brand new audience, assure fourty year viewers that this was still their Doctor Who and tell a complete story about aliens invading London. The fact it hangs together at all in incredible really, and the fact that it's actually quite good is astounding.

That's a great post, Madness. I think I was twenty when Rose aired, but I was still too young to have grown up with Doctor Who. The series was cancelled when I was four, and my first real introduction was the TV movie. I was intrigued by the new series rather than excited, and I remember enjoying Rose but thinking that it was perhaps a little too much of a kids show at times with its burping bins and all. I was committed after The Unquiet Dead though, which gets better with every watch, and Dalek made me a fan.

[Harsin]

The TV Movie was an exercise in doing pretty much everything wrong. They not only managed to annoy the longstanding fans with stuff like him suddenly being half-human. But imagine being one of those new viewers they so desperately to wanted to attract, particularly Americans, whose sum total of knowledge of Doctor Who might be that he's some funny English guy in a hat who likes jelly babies. You sit down in front of your telly in 1996 and this is the first thing you get:

It was on the planet Skaro (where?) that my old enemy the Master (who?) was finally put on trial (why?). They say he listened calmly as his list of evil crimes was read... and sentence passed. Then he made his last and I thought somewhat curious request. He demanded that I, the Doctor, a rival Timelord (what?), should take his remains back to our home planet; Gallifrey (where?).

While this is going on there's dodgy CGI and what sounds like Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz shouting exterminate at a bloke locked in a neon go-go dancer cage. It's a wonder most of the audience even made it past the credits.

I haven't watched Rose in years, I remember disliking it (the burping wheelie-bin was particularly cringeworhy from memory), but RTD did a lot of things right. It's told from a 'normal' person's perspective (in the TV movie the 'normal' person is a world renowned heart surgeon who does surgery with her boobs popping out of a ballgown), the monsters are a nice simple relateable concept (evil shop dummies) instead of spunk snake Master morphing into the Terminator and then Liberace with snake eyes and the basics of the Doctor are drip-fed in (and then longer term more and more of the series lore is re-added).

[kensei]

It also has the Doctor's speech about the world spinning. That was great.

As superior as RTDs take was, the 90s had comparatively more sci-fi/fantasy on than the Mid 2000s IRC though- Multiple Star Treks, Babylon 5, Buffy, X-files, Dark Skies etc so I wonder if they thought the audience was more likely to accept it or if they were targeting a different group. Plus the TV Movie did well enough in the UK, US reaction killed it.

Similarly, it's easy to see how an arc was going to be very tempting as the show aged. They'd established an audience and standalone stories were seen as old fashioned. I think the complexity has been overplayed - season 6 was just messily plotted and hampered by the split. Take that put and 5 / 7 were much less complicated.

Ideally I'd like it back to season 5 - bit of mystery to drove it, either doesn't get in the way or can be used to drive the plot. Less back references too now the 50th is out of the way.

[:mediadavid:]

I think season 5 was pretty much perfect in the week by week execution - an ongoing mystery which gave a bit of arc but didn't overwhelm the series, certainly no overly elaborate 'mythos' episodes, individual and mostly pretty good weekly stories, and an excellent 2 parter to wrap it up.

Except then of course it didn't wrap it up, until several years later in 'the Time of the Doctor', when the whole mystery of the finale and season in general was wrapped up with an easily missed single line of dialogue in amongst a complete pile of Moffat mythos crap.

[Zio]

Agreed. Season 5 was the pinnacle for me. Season 6 seemed such a mess in comparison.

[Harsin]

I thought Season 6 was alright up until a Good Man Goes to War. I think mainly because I thought it was all going to eventually head somewhere compelling. Instead it came back with Let's Kill Hitler* and culiminated in the just dreadful Wedding of River Song.

* I just remembered 'Mels'. Hey, it's our super-important but never-before-mentioned best friend Mels! She was so significant to us I named my stolen daughter after her! Oh wait it turns out she was my daughter all along!

[kensei]

I sort of liked Let's Kill Hitler as an entertaining romp of madness. It clearly showed the Moff was just making it up as he went along though, otherwise "Mel's" would have been in the season 5 finale.

I never liked a good man goes to war though, it was sold as ultimately epic and want happens if the Doc gets really angry but was just a few people in a room with the answer of not much.

Wedding of River Song was a complete mess, and the resolution to season six's central mystery (and a good one at that) falling flat.

[Fireproofradiator]

Hardly a massive sample but I was impressed by the Dream Lord alluding to an affair with Elizabeth I a good season and a half before it happened when I rewatched Amy's Choice it the other night. 'Making it up as he goes along' seems a little unfair...

[Harsin]

Eh, you do realise that's a prominent element from the RTD run?

[HarMGM]

Before I read Sprite's no doubt wonderfull review of Rose, I just wanted to post something else here first: Tom Baker has updated his own official website blog and has posted a rather sweet recollection of how the reaction to his role in The Day of the Doctor had a positive effect on him. He also pays some great compliments to Matt Smith and the other Doctors.

http://www.tom-baker.co.uk/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=159

I thought Season 6 was alright up until a Good Man Goes to War.

The same for me though A Good Man Goes to War really does move at a pace that's to fast for it's own good. Still, I will say that both The God Complex and The Girl Who Waited come in the second half of Series 6 and both of those rival the very best episodes of New Who.

Toby Whithouse really should become the next showrunner.

[NEG]

NEEEEEERRRRRRDDDSSSSS

[Fireproofradiator]

Eh, you do realise that's a prominent element from the RTD run?

Was that in The Shakespeare Code? The thing that I liked about the Amy's Choice reference was that it seemed to be a deliberate attempt by the Dream Lord to play on Amy's emotions by suggesting he had a thing with a monarch. But it did seem to foreshadow 'Day' in this way too...

[Nick R]

Was that in The Shakespeare Code?

It was in the Doctor's monologue to the Ood at the start of The End of Time:

The Doctor: Ah! Now, sorry. There you are. So. Where were we? I was summoned, wasn't I? And Ood in the snow, calling to me. Well I didn't exactly come straight here. Had a bit of fun, you know. Travelled about, did this and that. Got into trouble, you know me. It was brilliant. I saw the Phosphorus Carousel of the Great Magellan Gestalt. Saved a planet from the Red Carnivorous Morg. Named a galaxy Allison. Got married. That was a mistake. Good Queen Bess. And let me tell you, her nickname is no longer... ahem. Anyway. What d'you want?

[Harsin]

Moffat referenced it in The Beast Below as well.

[cassidy]

Well I just watched time of the doctor again and think the last 10 mins were superb. Emotional, effective and really worked. 2nd watch has me eagerly anticipating Capaldi's 1st Ep. The way he just stares at Clara post regen is a joy.

[NEG]

Remember that time when Bad Wolf was referenced?

Man oh man.

[Hexx]

I really liked Let's Kill Hitler, but as other s have mention it was one of the first times it became reallt obvious the arc/ongoing threads were only ever going to be clumsily, messily and unsatisfyingly resolves.

For poops and giggles I went and read the thread about the time of Pandorica/Big Bang - we were all so happy with the ongoing mysteries/arc

[Made of Ghosts]

The best bit of Let's Kill Hitler is when the Doctor is poisoned and it's explicitly stated that there is no cure, then he gets cured at the end.

[Sprite Machine]

If Sprite Machine (Or indeed anyone) wants a very good series of books about basically everything Doctor Who with loads of essays about a massive range of different and often very interesting topics you should look into the About Time series. They're currently 7 books in and all the way up to 2006. They're perfect books to dip into and contain massive amounts of info about continuity, production, behind the scenes stuff and more for every single episode.

http://madnorwegian.com/category/books/doctor-who/

They're all available on Amazon. They get two Flub thumbs up.

I got the first edition ('63-'66) for Christmas and couldn't put it down. Only managed to get through the first four 'chapters' so far, but it's really in-depth and interesting. I would stress, though, that if you haven't watched those episodes, it could be hard to follow what they're talking about.

Whether I'll get through the whole series, I don't know, but it's really good.

[NEG]

God, that's a lot of reading I'd love to get through.

[cassidy]

I have the whole bar the last one which is just Tat Wood on his own. Think him and Miles had a falling out. Not a shock. The essays in all the books are superb. Indispensable for any fan of Dr Who IMO.

[SeanR]

Tennant's about to kark it over on Watch...

[NEG]

So when do they start shooting?

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Shooting starts if Moffat writes another fucking shit episode like the Christmas one.

[Sprite Machine]

The End of the World

It is mildly ironic that I so dislike those pre-credits previews of next week's episode because, nine years ago, having been underwhelmed by 'Rose', that was the only thing that made me tune in again. The future! Aliens! A big space station! The end of the world! Excitement!

[Picture: The Doctor and Rose watch as the sun expands to engulf the Earth.]

At the time, my sci-fi of choice was decidedly serious and decidedly American, so the quirkily British 'End of the World' struck a chord with me and I think it holds up quite well today also. The pop-culture references will date it over time, but Cassandra confusing a jukebox for an iPod, and Britney Spears for a "classical ballad" is still pretty funny.

[Picture: Cassandra's extensive surguries are a parody of the modern obsession of celebrities being "thin". I never noticed her brain in the jar before.]

This episode continues to focus on Rose as the conduit for the viewer, with her asking all the questions that the viewer would likely have too. She also starts to question what she's doing going off on a mad adventure with a complete stranger, and there's a bit of friction as the Doctor initially refuses to talk about his past. What I get from the Doctor's character, for the first time, is the sense that his madly enthusiastic and cheery persona is just a smokescreen for the sadness and guilt he feels over the loss of his people, as though he has to compensate for that by being as upbeat as possible. Ecclestone does this well, I think.

[Picture: "Platform One" has the universe's worst security system. One key press lowers the sun barrer and kills the steward in his office.]

Without having to squeeze in an origin story, 'The End of the World' has space to breathe. Granted, it's still a brisk whirlwind of an adventure compared to the classic serials, but at the other end of the spectrum are the convoluted plots from the later series that have to rush through a load of exposition to get from A to B, scarcely making sense. The resolution here is refreshingly simple, albeit somewhat daft, as the Doctor races to pull a perilously positioned lever to reactivate the station's shielding.

[Picture: If I were designing a space station, I too would definitely place the important shield restoration lever at the end of a dangerous bridge covered by deadly rotating fan blades.]

While Rose talks about everything being "so alien", I can't help but think how human everybody is. Several of the characters are just people painted blue, all speaking British English with 21st century colloquialisms (rationalised as psychic translation, but still), and humanoid trees? Really? The Face of Boe is delightfully weird, mind you. I can imagine a more recent equivalent of this story filling it with Sontarans, Silurians and Zygons, so if nothing else, the production designers wanted something new, which is good.

[Picture: I'm guessing this episode had a larger budget than most, or they simply used it more efficiently. Admittedly, the sets are somewhat barren, but all the creatures and CGI must have cost a bit.]

This is still a surprisingly enjoyable episode, successfully mixing serious events (and a few of the guests being killed) with lighthearted humour and some thoughtful themes of mortality and legacy, with a simple plot that's easy to follow. And it still looks pretty slick.

[Davros sock drawer]

The End of the World came as a bit of a relief to me, as I thought the new series was doomed after Rose.

[NEG]

The burping bin shall return in the 10th anni, you watch.