Doctor Who

[Comrade]

That was fantastic. I seriously don't understand how anyone could find significant fault with it.

[Hideous Kojima]

This really proves how much better the current writing regime is to the last. If Russel T. Osser was writing this, we'd have his Mary Sue, Rose, getting off with the Doctor, Captain Jack showing up and flirting in a far-from-subtle way, a load of knob gags, a forced atheism angle, all subtlety being chucked out the window by having the Timelords yell "BUT YOU ARE PLAYING GOD/THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS/A BIT OF A KNOB", etc etc etc.

Instead, what we have is something that actually made me yell "FUCK YES!" about three or four times.

[NEG]

Moffat's writing is hardly that great, man.

[Hideous Kojima]

Nope! But it got that emotional response from me, and that means everything to me.

[Avuncular]

I thoroughly enjoyed that.

[DirkCrisis]

Red crocs, Colin Baker? I'm fuming.

But also curiously aroused by Bonnie Langford. That's never happened before.

[Darren]

I'm hoping to have a bit of a DW anniversary marathon today. Adventure in Time & Space, followed by Day of the Doctor, and the Five-ish Doctors to finish. I've seen them all already but the kids have only watched the middle one. Adventure might be a bit dry for them but if they can sit through it, it will be worthwhile for that moment at the end.

[kensei]

There is a soft reboot going on, but you are kidding yourselves if you think the show isn't going to retain most of its modern elements or go back to slow pace and a ton of multipart cliffhangers.

The time war stuff was introduced to remove a load of baggage from the show. It was very effective. But eventually it too became baggage. So they moved it on. In a fashion that sets up a new horse to ride until it gets stale. Clever, that Moffat.

Anniversary itself was the best episode in quite sometime. Though I did feel there was an obvious Ecclestone shaped hole in it. Can't believe he wouldn't even do the regen.

[Mogster]

Seeing this at the cinema was a massive treat. In fact, just seeing all the fezzes and bow ties in town beforehand was rather cool. There was a massive queue to get in, despite everyone having booked seats, and amazingly there was a great big queue for the repeat showing too. I love Doctor Who, but it's great to see just how many others do too.

[Garwoofoo]

Though I did feel there was an obvious Ecclestone shaped hole in it. Can't believe he wouldn't even do the regen.

I really thought they were going to, as well.

Eccleston comes off poorly from this, I feel. I can understand an actor leaving the part because they don't want to be typecast or because they feel it's run their course or because they have other opportunities they'd like to pursue. But it wouldn't have killed him to do an hour's work for a regen scene to celebrate his part in an iconic show. At the end of the day Eccleston received plenty of praise for his portrayal of the Doctor and he must have gained a lot of fans and exposure from his year in the role - it's churlish in the extreme for him to cut his ties completely with the show. He's the only Doctor ever to seem embarrassed by his participation.

[Zio]

You do see Hurt's Doctor start to change into Ecclestone (you can make out Ecclestone's eyes at the last second), but I'm assuming that was done with CGI. It was indeed a bit shitty of him not to even show up to do the regen.

Also, I noticed during the Afterparty thing on BBC 3 there was nothing whatsoever from David Tennant. Ecclestone's absence I was expecting, but there was nothing at all from Tennant, not even a "sorry I couldn't be there" VT thing.

[Destruktofraz]

Did anyone else notice in the line up of doctors at the end Tom Baker's doctor was the toothy waxwork they used when he refused to be a part of The Five Doctors? Glad he saw sense this time!

[Davros sock drawer]

Well, Tennant was in the entire episode, and in the Five(ish) Doctors, so maybe he didn't want to dominate the rest. Probably just busy though.

It is a shame about Ecclestone, I really, really thought he was going to appear. All he had to do was say "Fantastic!", and everyone would have loved it.

Re. The number of Regens, I note that the Timelords said "No! It's all thirteen!" rather than something less specific ("it's all of them!" would have done, plus showing any number of Tardises). I wonder if they're re-instating the limit, and if so why?

[Mr Cochese]

Because it's a story to tell. Lots of viewers know the rule.

[Darren]

I'm amazed they didn't just CGI in Ecclestone's head from one of the many clips they've already got of him saying 'fantastic!' with his big grin. I wonder why they didn't? It can't be because he has image rights and refuses to let them do that sort of thing, as they've used clips and images of him several times since he left, including twice in this very episode. Just not at the most crucial and iconic moment.

[Professor Puzzles]

Given that the we see Paul McGann turn into al young John Hurt in the webisode, and given that Matt Smith claims to have been romping about for 400 years but still looks practically the same age, and given that the John Hurt doctor looks like a dessicated walnut, how long has he been hanging around?

[WibbleWorldGiddy]

This really proves how much better the current writing regime is to the last. If Russel T. Osser was writing this, we'd have his Mary Sue, Rose, getting off with the Doctor, Captain Jack showing up and flirting in a far-from-subtle way, a load of knob gags, a forced atheism angle, all subtlety being chucked out the window by having the Timelords yell "BUT YOU ARE PLAYING GOD/THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS/A BIT OF A KNOB", etc etc etc.

Instead, what we have is something that actually made me yell "FUCK YES!" about three or four times.

Now steady on! There's always room for nob gags.

[Professor Puzzles]

They did a nob gag anyway when they compared sonic screwdrivers.

[Ork1927]

I think I need to watch it again.

Watched it in the early hours after being out for a meal and didn't really like it (although some bits were great).

Not sure if my expectations were too high? Haven't watched the fiveish doctors yet as assumed it was 5 minutes long.

Based on the firstinute alone and the I player screenshot it looks awesome

[gone fishin]

One thing that confuses me. As I said before, I haven't watched this in years.

But why would John Hurt regenerate into Christopher ecclestone? Is he supposed to be between Withnail Doctor and Crappy Scotchy Accented GI Joe Doctor?

That doesn't explain why he was the one that destroyed Gallifrey. And Billie piper implying Elephant Man Doctor was the first.

[Glasgowchivas]

One thing that confusesme. As I said before, I haven't watched this in years.

But why would John Hurt regenerate into Christopher ecclestone? Is he supposed to be between Withnail Doctor and Crappy Scotchy Accented GI Joe Doctor?

That doesn't explain why he was the one that destroyed Gallifrey. And Billie piper implying Elephant Man Doctor was the first.

Well, yes.

It was assumed for years that McGann regenerated into Ecclestone but the shows been hinting that there was an unexplained, Un-Doctor, in between them. The Day Of The Doctor - and the short film with McGann a few weeks ago - showed that this Doctor was John Hurt and he destroyed Gallfray & The Daleks with a superweapon to end the Time War. Day Of The Doctor allowed that decision to be undone and now Gallifray is simply lost, rather than destroyed but due to the nature of the time-streams, Hurt, Ecclestone, Tennant, up to Smith live with the belief that they did destroy billions of innocents.

Now, with the truth revealed Smith/Capaldi can go on adventures through space & time to find their lost homeworld.

[Zio]

One thing that confuses me. As I said before, I haven't watched this in years.

But why would John Hurt regenerate into Christopher ecclestone? Is he supposed to be between Withnail Doctor and Crappy Scotchy Accented GI Joe Doctor?

That doesn't explain why he was the one that destroyed Gallifrey. And Billie piper implying Elephant Man Doctor was the first.

It's like this:

First Doctor: William Hartnell, who regenerates into:

Second Doctor: Patrick Troughton, who regenerates into:

Third Doctor: Jon Pertwee, who regenerates into:

Fourth Doctor: Tom Baker, who regenerates into:

Fifth Doctor: Peter Davison, who regenerates into:

Sixth Doctor: Colin Baker, who regenerates into:

Seventh Doctor: Sylvester McCoy.

The classic series ends during this generation and continues in the 1996 TV Movie, where he regenerates into:

Eighth Doctor: Paul McGann.

At some point between the TV Movie and the TV series restarting in 2005, there's a Great Time War between the Daleks and the Timelords on Gallifrey. The Doctor tries to avoid having any part in this war, but in the Night Of The Doctor mini-episode, it's revealed that the Eighth Doctor is killed in a starship crash. He's temporarily revived by the Sisterhood of Karn, who beg him to help fight in the war. To help him with this, they assist his regeneration. So the Eighth Doctor now regenerates into:

War Doctor: John Hurt. Due to his actions in the war, he chooses not to use the title 'The Doctor', but he is essentially the 9th incarnation of the Timelord normally known as The Doctor.

He ultimately chooses to end the war by destroying both the Daleks and the Timelords using a sentient weapon called The Moment. As punishment for it's use, The Moment spares his life, although he now regenerates into:

Ninth Doctor: Christopher Ecclestone, (this is where the 2005 series starts) who regenerates into:

Tenth Doctor: David Tennant, who regenerates into:

Eleventh Doctor: Matt Smith, who will regenerate into:

Twelfth Doctor: Peter Capaldi.

In the 50th Anniversary Special, the War Doctor, Tenth Doctor and Eleventh Doctor work together and change history by hiding Gallifrey instead of destroying it, doing it in such a way that the Daleks essentially destroy themselves. So as far as anyone's concerned, Gallifrey is gone, the Timelords have vanished and the Daleks are destroyed. Everything is as it was. The War Doctor and the Tenth Doctor cannot remember that they changed anything, meaning all episodes up to this point are still completely valid. But what the Eleventh Doctor now knows is that Gallifrey is still standing, it's just hidden somewhere.

Does that clear any of this up at all?

[Davros sock drawer]

This whole thing basically came about because Ecclestone didn't want to be involved didn't it? It's a shame, but I enjoyed what they did to get around it.

[LaParka]

When they showed the line up from behind, the stand in for Ecclestone was quite, rotund...

[Darren]

I think that's a perfect summary. The bit that's confusing me now though is how it ties in with Tennant's last episode. In that I thought Gallifrey was already frozen in time (rather than destroyed) which is how they managed to open up that portal to the Doctor and the Master. Or am I remembering it wrong?

[zxcvbnm]

In the after party bit (what a fuck up that was!) Davison mentioned in passing that there was someone who flatly refused to be involved in the five-ish doctors, and all the companions laughed - was he referring to Tom Baker or Christopher Ecclestone?

And I always thought Ecclestone was alright, but David Tennant and Matt Smith did a much better job. I've never really understood all the love for Ecclestone. He had some great episodes, so it wasn't always the scripts. Maybe it was the gurning and "fantastic" that put me off him.

[Flub]

I think that's a perfect summary. The bit that's confusing me now though is how it ties in with Tennant's last episode. In that I thought Gallifrey was already frozen in time (rather than destroyed) which is how they managed to open up that portal to the Doctor and the Master. Or am I remembering it wrong?

The war council mentioned that the High council were doing their own thing. At that same moment they were trying to use the Master and the sound of drums to escape in End of Time. Shortly after that failed The Day of the Doctor happened and Gallifrey was locked away in a pocket universe. Wibbly wobbly but it does all fit. They weren't frozen at the time. Just time locked. Matt and Dave were only able to enter the time lock to help Hurt because the Moment let them in. Conversely the High council could only try to get out by using a link they'd created with the Master.

[JPickford]

This whole thing basically came about because Ecclestone didn't want to be involved didn't it? It's a shame, but I enjoyed what they did to get around it.

They didn't need Ecclestone though. McGann could have been the war doctor. I think that would have been better in a way - giving him a decent role in the main show. And Ecclestone had clearly just regenerated at the start of Rose so it makes more sense for McGann to be the warrior.

Moffat probably just liked the idea of an extra 'un-doctor' incarnation. Which is a really nice concept in itself. Separating the man from the role.

[Nick R]

Remember this rumour?

Colin Baker let slip what was happening regarding the special casting a little while ago

Paintings of his past selves in the Tardis that age as if they hadn't regenerated and can talk to him

I believe he got proper told off for it

Well, it wasn't quite that. But it did involve paintings...

[Glasgowchivas]

I liked Hurt's line about the size of his (Ecclestone's) ears.